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1/72 Airfix Red Star Trio: VVS Lend-Lease Spitfire, Hurricane and P-40B


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Hi All

 

A couple of quick builds to get me motivated.

DSCF1013.jpg

 

Inside the shiny box you get a shiny new P-40B

DSCF1014.jpg

 

A shiny new Hurricane

DSCF1015.jpg

 

And a Spitfire from 1975 :huh:?

DSCF1016.jpg

 

Never mind, the decals look well done

DSCF1017.jpg

 

Lots of P-40 stencils to get lost under the (attempting for the first time!) winter whitewash camo ^_^

First up, the Spitfire, and I'm afraid there will be no arrow on the side. I've looked at that pic of EP210 and some of the interpretations seem to be fanciful at the very least :worms:.

Also, there will be no sign of blotted out RAF markings, just factory applied paint with probably no stars on the upper wings.

 

The paint instructions show a yellow spinner but I'm still undecided about that.

DSCF1018.jpg

 

Yellow leading edges though :(

 

 

Comments and suggestions welcome

 

Cheers

Steve

 

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Nice, I have that boxing too. If I'm not mistaken, the Hurri is not the 2013 Mk.I tool but also an older one. 

Mk.V Spits roundels were usually painted over and stars added in Persia before crossing the border, so the 'blots' would be standard RAF green. Not the dubious stuff flying around today.. 

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51 minutes ago, alt-92 said:

If I'm not mistaken, the Hurri is not the 2013 Mk.I tool but also an older one. 

No,  its the the notorious 2013 tool with added B wings.  Looks to assemble very well.  Irredeemably awful in shape due to use of plans from a serious Hurricane book that are utter rubbish...despite have Francis K Mason's name on them! 

23 hours ago, ProfSparks said:

A couple of quick builds to get me motivated.

It builds well AFAIK

 

52 minutes ago, alt-92 said:

Mk.V Spits roundels were usually painted over and stars added in Persia before crossing the border, so the 'blots' would be standard RAF green.

This was standard.  the famous pics in Iran show overpaint with RAF colours, and application of red stars.

 

23 hours ago, ProfSparks said:

I've looked at that pic of EP210 and some of the interpretations seem to be fanciful at the very least :worms:.

Also, there will be no sign of blotted out RAF markings, just factory applied paint with probably no stars on the upper wings.

For some reason the British applied stars  markings to RAF positions, fuselage, under and upper wing, VVS standard was fin, fuselage, underwing.  The very few shots of VVS Vb with upperwing showing have stars. 

 

 

23 hours ago, ProfSparks said:

 

The paint instructions show a yellow spinner but I'm still undecided about that.

I'd go for Sky for the Spitfire spinner, yellow was a Luftwaffe eastern front ID colour. 

As for the 'lightning bolt'  the famous image of 538 is after it's removal,  here http://ava.org.ru/iap/57g.htm  there is a pic of 529, after a crash, showing it clearly. 

23 hours ago, ProfSparks said:

And a Spitfire from 1975 :huh:?

basically accurate though. ailerons are too wide on the upperwing. 

Note, all 3 planes are photodocumented,

this is P-40 58

https://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/lendlease/p-40/tapani/p-40b-c/58khlobystov.htm

 

the Hurricane in particular, as it was brought down in Finland, and photographed from both sides. 

 

HTH

 

 

 

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Hi All

 

First off, an apology for misleading you on the age of the included Spitfire.

 

It isn't from 1975...

DSCF1019.jpg

 

:banghead:

 

And yes, that's the total cockpit.

 

However, it is concealed beneath a cunning Cloaking Device

DSCF1020.jpg

 

:hypnotised:

 

Right.

 

Moving along, we come to the Hurricane

DSCF1022.jpg

 

1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

No,  its the the notorious 2013 tool with added B wings.  Looks to assemble very well.  Irredeemably awful in shape due to use of plans from a serious Hurricane book that are utter rubbish...despite have Francis K Mason's name on them! 

It builds well AFAIK.

Ok, but at least the driver has a giant Bubble Wand to play with?

 

The canopy is slightly clearer, and can be posed open if one wishes to go down that route :tumble:

DSCF1023.jpg

 

2 hours ago, alt-92 said:

Mk.V Spits roundels were usually painted over and stars added in Persia before crossing the border, so the 'blots' would be standard RAF green. Not the dubious stuff flying around today.. 

 

1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

This was standard.  the famous pics in Iran show overpaint with RAF colours, and application of red stars.

 

1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

For some reason the British applied stars  markings to RAF positions, fuselage, under and upper wing, VVS standard was fin, fuselage, underwing.  The very few shots of VVS Vb with upperwing showing have stars.

 

Ah, excellent info for the Vb, thanks.

I'd been reading lots of thoughts on the VVS planes being shipped out with the RAF markings being factory deleted without signs that they were there in the first place, and stars being added where roundals would have been. I wondered if by January 1943 when EP210 was delivered that the RAF painters were doing them to VVS spec. More stars placed on painted out (with RAF paint) will be sought.

 

 

@Troy Smith HTH? Seriously?

 

Posted too soon, brb

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by ProfSparks
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1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

No,  its the the notorious 2013 tool with added B wings.

Are you sure? Cockpit parts and wheel well are nothing like the fabric wing 2013 kit... might it be the 2010 IIC/Sea Hurricane one then?

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...and another thing...

 

 

1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

I'd go for Sky for the Spitfire spinner, yellow was a Luftwaffe eastern front ID colour.

 

Yup, I was leaning that way

 

 

1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

As for the 'lightning bolt'  the famous image of 538 is after it's removal,  here http://ava.org.ru/iap/57g.htm  there is a pic of 529, after a crash, showing it clearly.

 

From that pic I can make out the lines that show where it might have been, but what about the line that goes over the nose?

 

 

Thanks for the P-40 58 page, makes the whitewash mush easier!

 

 

Comments and suggestions welcome

 

Cheers

Steve

 

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2 minutes ago, ProfSparks said:

I'd been reading lots of thoughts on the VVS planes being shipped out with the RAF markings being factory deleted without signs that they were there in the first place, and stars being added where roundals would have been. I wondered if by January 1943 when EP210 was delivered that the RAF painters were doing them to VVS spec.

AFAIK NO British planes were factory painted with red stars, these were done at MU's before delivery

 

process

49996862617_3cbbb71a4f_c.jpgspitfire roundel paint out Abadan 43 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

result.  They do seem to have painted out the leading edge stripe though.

Spitfire_Mk_VB_BM186_AD236_BL625_Iran_19

 

 

5 minutes ago, ProfSparks said:

I'd been reading lots of thoughts on the VVS planes being shipped out with the RAF markings

where?  There's a lot of cobblers about.... we had a thread deleted about a current Spitfire Warbird restoration in "Russian colours" with big patches of "Russian" green over the roundels advised by "an expert"  ....

 

 

1 minute ago, alt-92 said:

Are you sure? Cockpit parts and wheel well are nothing like the fabric wing 2013 kit... might it be the 2010 IIC/Sea Hurricane one then?

That's the one I meant.  Apologies.  

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Hi All

 

I think I might have got the wrong end of the stick regarding the condition and process of getting aircraft from factory to Russia, is this the timeline?

 

Built and painted in RAF Day Fighter colours (DG/OG/MSG) in England, including under and over wing + fuselage roundals, Sky tail band, tail fin flash and serial, but no codes;

Shipped to MU in Iran where same RAF paint was used to cover over the roundals and tail fin flash continuing the camo;

Still in MU red stars painted (RAF paint?) under and over wing + fuselage;

Shipped to VVS - (numbers / lightning bolts / emblems applied after delivery?)

 

Cheers

Steve

 

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1 hour ago, ProfSparks said:

Shipped to MU in Iran where same RAF paint was used to cover over the roundals and tail fin flash continuing the camo;

yes.  The one in photo done neatly, not always the case, sometimes only one colour used.    But if done well, continuing the camo pattern.

1 hour ago, ProfSparks said:

Still in MU red stars painted (RAF paint?) under and over wing + fuselage;

yes.

1 hour ago, ProfSparks said:

Shipped to VVS - (numbers / lightning bolts / emblems applied after delivery?)

yes. 

 

 

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Hi All

 

Moving on to the P-40, all nicely detailed

DSCF1025.jpg

 

Except...

DSCF1026.jpg

 

Good to have a separate nose piece, stops those pesky seams, not quite so good to have a mould line across it, but I'm guessing it's the only way to get the intake hollow.

 

Spot on canopy, though you'll have to cut it open yourself

DSCF1027.jpg

 

The Brit internals got some Hataka Grey Green, the Yank AK Interactive Grey Green.

DSCF1028.jpg

 

Some tape seatbelts, a dirty wash and a matt coat

DSCF1029.jpg

 

And the fuselage halves enticed together

DSCF1030.jpg

 

Looks like a room full of mouse traps, if one goes they all go :cow6:

 

 

Comments and suggestions welcome

 

Cheers

Steve

 

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For the sake of completeness

Hurricane-IIb-USSR-609IAP-W60-BM959-Sovi

 

 

 

Hurricane-IIb-USSR-609IAP-W60-BM959-Sovi

 

Note, from, the appearance of the '60' this was painted in silver paint,  as possibly was the Za Stalina/Za Rodinnu.  As quite possibly  is the edge of the red star.     

As an aside VVS red star went through various phases, initially with a black outline,(41/42)  then white or silver outline(42/43/44) , finally white/silver outline with a thin red outline.(44/45)

Airfix have captured the rather wonky  'calligraphy' of the 60 well though. 

Note, Sliver paint was quite commonly used in VVS markings, and photographs in a  very distinctive way.  

 Does show well the neatness of the overpaint of the RAF roundels/fin flash as well.

 

On 27/10/2021 at 21:38, ProfSparks said:

Ok, but at least the driver has a giant Bubble Wand to play with?

 

:rofl2:

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi All

 

Thanks again to @Troy Smith for more knowledge than I could ever hope to hold!

 

 

Sluggish progress, but progress. The seams were daubed with Tipp-Ex, allowed to dry, then daubed again until it dried proud of the seam

DSCF1031.jpg

 

Sanded flush and smooth then their wings added

DSCF1067.jpg

 

The Spitfire wasn't too bad for it's age, just a touch of filler at the wing roots once I square it off and glue it securely

DSCF1068.jpg

 

The Hurricane was an excellent fit, even the proverbial 'smear of PPP' is almost redundant

DSCF1069.jpg

 

The P-40 wasn't quite as excellent, don't know how I've done that

DSCF1070.jpg

 

The underwing only fits in one place, locating at front and rear, and the top wing pieces only fit in one place too.

 

Hey ho, looks like I'll have a use for the PPP I saved from the Hurri...

 

 

Comments and suggestions welcome

 

Cheers

Steve

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi All

 

I don't know what it is about canopy masking that makes my teeth itch, but there you go.

 

I tried a couple of experimental approaches, none seemed any more relaxing than the last, but at least they're done and The Lab is calm again

DSCF1084.jpg

 

The oil and radiator scoops were split halves

DSCF1085.jpg

 

So I thought I'd give the UV Resin a go as filler, a la @Bertie Psmith

DSCF1086.jpg

 

And I must say it's a success!

 

It didn't shrink into the gap, was solid and ready to sand smooth with about 15 seconds of a UV torch :thumbsup:

 

I gave their undersides respective coats of Hataka Medium Sea Grey and AK Interactive RAF Sky

DSCF1087.jpg

 

I'll let the Pledge sit for a couple of days to harden, then mask for the upper colours.

 

 

Comments and suggestions welcome

 

Cheers

Steve

 

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Hi All

 

Various top coats on

DSCF1090.jpg

 

The Spitfire continued with Hataka Dark Green. I didn't completely feel comfortable with it, so I was going to do the Hurricane in Vallejo BS Dark Green but I had a niggling doubt that I didn't get on well with that particular vial either, so I went slightly left field and got at it with Vallejo 71.011 Dark Green (erm... RLM83...). The P-40 continued with AK Interactive Dark Green.

The Hataka and AK are very similar, and to my uncalibrated eye too dark and not green enough, whereas the Vallejo is a much more pleasingly almost Olive shade.

 

I'll get the worms on and see how they look after a selection of Ocean Grey for the Brits and a Dark Earth for the Yank.

 

 

Comments and suggestions welcome

 

Cheers

Steve

 

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4 hours ago, ProfSparks said:

The Hataka and AK are very similar, and to my uncalibrated eye too dark and not green enough, whereas the Vallejo is a much more pleasingly almost Olive shade.

I would concur,  I have the AK interactive Dark Green, and a sample of the Hataka, and both are too dark.    Vallejo make many paint shades, they just don't seem very good at matching them up with what they are supposed to represent! 

 

 

4 hours ago, ProfSparks said:

I'll get the worms on and see how they look after a selection of Ocean Grey for the Brits

Ocean Grey when fresh has subtle greeny-blue hue to it.  The AK wasn't good....  and with Vallejo, they likely do but call it something else,  I note here

https://ak-interactive.com/product/wwii-us-navy-usmc-aircraft-colors/

"AK11341 Intermediate Blue (Ocean Gray FS 35164)"  

 

FWIW, this to me shows the colours well of fresh Dark Green and Ocean Grey

11119961963_9829cf7a2c_b.jpgTest Pilot               c1944. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

In particular at the left of the photo.

 

 

4 hours ago, ProfSparks said:

and a Dark Earth for the Yank.

Bear in mind that the P-40 would be in US Dupont colors, which are not quite the same as the MAP colours, which are seen here. 

3052829500_f050f88a61_b.jpgSpitfire in England by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

  These are factory fresh in Dupont paint AFAIK, note the green tends to be a bit more piney green than olive, and the Dark Earth a bit sandier

eg 

13782343153_2ea22020b5_b.jpgBell Airacobra      1941. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

16687393960_7019ae2944_b.jpgDouglas Boston, c1941. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

8082110322_25862ac4e5_b.jpgDouglas Boston.  1942. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

If it's not too red or too dark muddy grey, or like light brown cat sick...  then I'd say that was good going, as these seem to the common problems with Dark Earth.....   

 

Sorry.... I've been getting rather annoyed with acrylic model paint that is not even in ball park of the RAF museum book MAP chips....  

 

Anyway, if you are are happy with how they look on the model that's alll that matters and my trip down the psychedelic rabbit hole of colours is my problem!!!!! :banghead:   (is that grey with slight blue or slight purple hue.... nurse, meds now please) 

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Hi All

 

Colours.

 

It's like a maze in a minefield, populated by people claiming to be "expert" guides.

Who do you trust?

You'd think obviously not your own eyes, because colour perception is subjective and you're not there with the 1:1 at the exact time and place of what you're after.

All you have in the beginning are Airfix drawings and Humbrol paints.

Then your horizons broaden to the many specialist ranges available, so you put your faith in the Big Boys, safe in the knowledge that they've done endless hours of research, gone through the official documentation, poured over photographs, swatches, samples, remaining examples, the whole nine yards, engaged in real world testing and applied feedback to produce their best shot.

 

Doesn't matter, not one jot.

 

Take @Troy Smith's excellent pictures of the Douglas Boston above (where does he get them all, and how does he know where they all are? :worthy:)

Same make of aircraft, I'm presuming same paint, approximately a year apart, different colours.

 

Colours are like statistics, there's a fair chance they can be made to match your own view of what you've seen somewhere.

 

And on that note, Dupont Dark Earth will here be played by AK RAF Dark Earth, and AK and Hataka will be standing in for MAP Ocean Grey

DSCF1094.jpg

 

These will be grubbied up with Flory as per their black and white pictures, and the P-40 will have winter whitewash on it anyway.

 

Odd how the second colour changes the way I see the greens, or is it just me?

 

 

Comments and suggestions welcome

 

Cheers

Steve

 

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44 minutes ago, ProfSparks said:

Odd how the second colour changes the way I see the greens, or is it just me?

Nope :P 

Let's take your Vallejo example: BS Dark Green 71.324 for instance. On it's own, or next to Ocean Grey it looks more like pine green (due to the yellow - you can see it on the spoon).

y4mufGxmS89mxyG3LyWKh-jZEyYNB3S3Qb2d6mYp

 

That yellow/pine green tint kept me from using it, but when sprayed in multiple thin layers over Dark Earth it does look better than with greys. 

Still prefer Tamiya XF-81 DG in most cases though. 

 

As far as the greys go: 

Usually I end up with a mix of thin layers of Tamiya XF-82 and Vallejo 71.273. Insta-colour modulation and weathering.
y4mGvhZEdNkwe5W3aChRjIh8vTN-U4gW_HsbLgL3

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On 02/12/2021 at 11:13, ProfSparks said:

The Hataka and AK are very similar, and to my uncalibrated eye too dark and not green enough, whereas the Vallejo is a much more pleasingly almost Olive shade.


This is why I'm tending to like the Mig Ammo paints more and more, If you can find the shade you want in a modulated series then you can go up and down in darkness without any issues.

 

The range has 2 rml83's A-MIG-0056 That is the standard colour.

Or it also has A-MIG-0925 it's still RML83 but it modulates with 4 other paints for a 5 paint modulated set.

 A-MIG-0924, A-MIG-0925, A-MIG-0926, A-MIG-0927, A-MIG-0928.

https://www.migjimenez.com/en/acrylic-colors/341-olive-drab-modulation-set.html

That 4 colour set is missing the darkest colour in the modulation, A-MIG-0924.

They also sell the full modulated set of 36 paints as a set.

https://www.migjimenez.com/en/acrylic-colors/2312-modulation-colors-collection-17-ml.html

 

Mig compatibility chart.
https://www.migjimenez.com/img/cms/PDF/acrylic-colors-conversion-chart.pdf

Edited by Iceni
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Well, this is embarrassing. I'd just settled in for a night of stickering, but going through my motley collection I found I had exactly none Red Stars for their upper wings :poop:

 

Airfix only supply lower wing stars

DSCF1095.jpg

 

So I need to source some for their upper wings

 

Big H has Print Scale PSL72369 (VVS USSR Faded National Insignia 1935-1945), but I'm unsure how they would look against the rest of the decals.

 

Could anyone point me in the direction of suitable stars?

 

 

Cheers

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi All

 

In order to move forward with these, I've done some star bodging.

 

The Airfix under wing stars will be used on the upper wing surfaces of the Spitfire and P-40 as they'll match the side ones, and I've perloined two pairs of slightly undersize stars for their undersides. The Hurricane is beyond my search, so the stars will go on her underside as Airfix would have you do.

DSCF1098.jpg

 

DSCF1099.jpg

 

They'll get a coat of Pledge to seal them on before the Flory dunk.

 

The P-40 still has her lower half masking on as the Winter camo is experimental.

 

 

Comments and suggestions welcome

 

Cheers

Steve

 

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Hi All

 

I managed to squeeze in some Lab time between frantic festive work and frantic festive enforced joviality, so I set about with the worms

DSCF1100.jpg

 

Thanks to @Troy Smith (again!), the winter white was only applied to the Dark Earth areas of camo

DSCF1101.jpg

 

Here comes the experimental phase.

Tamiya XF-2 Flat White was sprayed neat from the jar, 0,2mm needle, 6-8psi from about 8". I couldn't get an absolute pressure reading as it was just on the bottom of the dial, but the idea was to not atomise the paint fully and have tiny dots.

 

Did it work?

DSCF1102.jpg

 

DSCF1103.jpg

 

DSCF1104.jpg

 

Hmm, apart from some dodgy worm action on the nose :banghead:, and possibly more research and Lab time needed, I'll take that as an encouraging start.

 

Achievement unlocked :penguin:

 

I'll let that harden off and give it a coat of Pledge to match the other two.

 

 

Comments and suggestions welcome

 

Cheers

Steve

 

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