Somewhere near Caen July 1944 - 1/35 Tamiya Cromwell Mk. IV

[Ray_W]

At last, my Cromwell build is about to commence so here it is in WIP. I have been wanting to build a Normandy Cromwell for some time, set in a small diorama possibly like so:

 

 

Not only is the Cromwell one of my favourite tanks, but even more so with the look of that camouflage netting so typically seen in images from the period. 

 

 The basis for the build will be the Tamiya kit.

 

 

I did not drag out a series of sprue shots as I think the kit is well known. 

 

 

A Cromwell expert I ain't so feel free to offer any suggestions/corrections needed. I am aware of the rear deck mods as covered in a previous question I posted (goodness me, where has the year gone?). Thanks to John @Bullbasket and @Das Abteilung for their valued input.

 

 

I am not worried about modding the kit so all input is welcome. That rear deck will be one of the first.

 

I might have to secure some additional aftermarket or scratch build some items  I do have some old Eduard PE from 1998 that may or may not be useful. 

 

 

And the Hobby Boss track links. Good or bad? I do not know yet.

 

   

The subject is also not chosen so the options are open. I do have the Star decals as follows:

 

 

 

Hope you can tag along.

 

Ray

 

[Bullbasket]

22 minutes ago, Ray_W said:

Hope you can tag along.

 

I'll be there Ray. Never miss out on a Cromwell build. Although old, the Eduard set will still be an asset for your build. Just one thing to point out. Ignore option B on the Star Decals sheet. That's a lVf and will require a fair amount of surgery to the drivers hatch area.

 

John.

[Jasper dog]

I'm in and tagging along if I may. 

 

[Kingsman]

Not that it matters as a diorama idea, but the tank in your picture is a command tank. Note the map boards in front of the hatches.  Dummy weapons, solid muzzle brake with just side dimples on the 75.  As it's with a bunch of M10s I did wonder if it might actually be a Cavalier OP, but it isn't.  But it could still be a Centaur OP: virtually impossible to tell at that distance under the scrim.

 

As for a Cromwell in NWE, they were all supposed to be Final Specification build standard - but not all were.  Cromwell IVs were actually contracted as Centaur IIIs but completed as Cromwells as the companies in the "Centaur Group" increasingly joined the "Cromwell Group".  The Final Spec was not finalised until Feb 44 and 400 new-build Cromwells were then needed by June, a requirement not fully met.  Cromwell IVs were built on Type C, D, E and F hulls - so you don't necessarily need to mod the engine deck as the kit is more or less a Type C.  The flat front trackguards came in on late Type Cs.  But a Type D is certainly more typical. 

 

However, only the Type Es had the full Cromwell suspension with a shock absorber on the 4th wheel station (from the front).  So no diagonal line of fastenings there on the hull side for a Type D.  All FS tanks were supposed to have their riveted seams welded also, for waterproofing, but I don't know if this was internal or external.  The Cromwell IV at Bovington does not have visible external welding, so internal seems likely.  As far as I can tell, the kit covers most of the other visible FS items such as the rear smoke emitters and vane sight.

 

But one glaring omission is the commander's No2 all-round vision cupola.  This was an FS requirement and is not in the kit.  Panzer Art do a nice one but don't expect any change from £12.  You might find photos without the cupola, but beware of OP and Command tanks which did not all have it (like the top photo).  There were enough cupolas to fit them to some Fireflies so there doesn't appear to have been a supply shortage.  I had a quick Google and every in-action photo I found had the cupola.  Although the cupola rotated most photos seem to show it in the fore-and-aft position with the hatches opening sideways. 

 

 

[APA]

Not wanting to be too controversial but isn't the cromwell in the pic a "White top"? 🤔

 

Andrew 

[Ray_W]

@Das Abteilung Thanks for the great response. Very helpful in trying to nail down a variant and subject. I am hoping to do one that will require the rear deck conversion to a "D". Just for the fun of it. Your're right, the Panzer Art cupola is very nice and I will not hesitate to buy it if needed. Not cheap.

 

 

 

 

A photo does exist of Star Decals "Option D" T187740. This photo from the IWM site "2nd North Hamptonshire Yeomanry, 11th Armoured Division, Herouvillette, 14th June 1944". Early in the campaign, still looking quite pristine with the track guards as yet not mangled.  British crew wearing their helmets and goggles; interesting. Am I right that this particular subject does not have the Mk. 2 Commander's Cupola? Also, any guesses as to what is under that tarpaulin on the rear deck? Signal wire? A roll of camo netting is visible. Seems no chance of turning that turret to the right. 

 

 

The decals do appear to be a nice reproduction. 

 

 

It is very clean subject and, without the hessian camouflage, preserves the look of the Cromwell. Although I do like the camo'd look. Seems a good option. If I could find this subject after some more use it would be great. Mind you, that period, that theatre, possibly not. I wonder what was the history of this vehicle? 

 

Based on David Fletcher and Harley David's Book New Vanguard book  T187740 would be in the series T187501–188082 Cromwell IVD, IVE, and VIE Gun tanks by Leyland and Fowler. So a D may be appropriate 

 

By the time survivors of the 11th Armoured were at Lesdeux 14th June 1944, dusty, dirty, guard damage and a good image of the Commander's Cupola. Seems mesh and foliage applied to the turret. Divisional markings seem to have been lost, the turret name is not clear and the serial number is not visible.

 

 

Ray

 

[Ray_W]

8 minutes ago, APA said:

Not wanting to be too controversial but isn't the cromwell in the pic a "White top"?

Very interesting point. Seems so. Sorry if I am late to the party and this has been discussed before.

 

I started so see if any reference to it. Michael Kenny posted this on Missing-Lynx back in 2008.

 

John Cloudsley-Thompson is his article in the RAC Journal for July 1957

"THE Caen Offensive which began on 18th July, 1944, consisted of an attack south-
east from Caen by the Canadian 2nd and 3rd Infantry Divisions and three Armoured
Divisions, the 7th (Desert Rats), the llth and the Guards, while the British 3rd
Division advanced on the left flank and the 51st Highland Division contributed a diver-
sion. The object was to retain on the front of the British Second Army as much as
possible of the enemy armoured strength in order to facilitate the advance of the American
army from the Cherbourg Peninsular, but at the time we all thought that this was to be the
main Allied attempt to break out from the Normandy beach head. The attack was
preceded by an assault from no less than 1,000 British heavy bombers and 500 U.S.
medium bombers followed by several hundred Flying Fortresses, while close support
was afforded by rocket-firing Typhoons of the R.A.F.

To lessen the risk of being inadvertently shot up by our own aircraft, the top of every British tank turret was painted
white. The massed artillery support amounted to 760 guns including 13 Medium and
3 Heavy Regiments, R.A. and in addition there was Naval support for dealing with any
coastal batteries that might be able to bear on the Caen plain"

 

Now how many actually followed the order would be interesting. Probably worthy of a thread in the Armour Discussion section and drag up any up to date information. 

 

Ray

 

 

[Hamden]

 

Mind if I follow along, this promises to be a very interesting project

 

  Stay safe      Roger

[Ray_W]

1 hour ago, Hamden said:

Mind if I follow along, this promises to be a very interesting project

 

Roger, glad to have you aboard. Hopefully we can keep up the interest level.

 

Ray

[bigfoot]

Can’t beat a good Cromwell build, I’ll be following along this with interest. Might just spur me on to crack on with my stalled dual Cromwell build!

[Ray_W]

21 minutes ago, bigfoot said:

Might just spur me on to crack on with my stalled dual Cromwell build!

Hope so! Come join the party. Invite is in the mail.

[Kingsman]

As I said, a non-cupola tank is not impossible because of the shortage of "full Final Spec" tanks.  But it does seem less common.

 

The object strapped to the left of the turret (in the photo) is a motorcycle under a tarp.  Same with the tank behind.

 

Hodges & Taylor has AOS 49 assigned to divisional signals, so Div HQ.  That suggests that these might again be command tanks, or maybe Rear Link radio relays.  The muzzle brake doesn't look like the usual false ones as the muzzle hole is deeper than they usually are.  That would certainly explain the tanks carrying solo motorcycles, used by R Signals Dispatch Riders.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Das Abteilung
addition

[IanC]

Hi Ray. The photo you have there may well show a RA command/OP tank at the start of Op Goodwood. The M10s behind are believed to be from 7th Armoured's 65th AT Regiment (Norfolk Yeomanry). Also, the crew - the ones on the ground at least - appear to be wearing khaki GS caps, indicating gunners rather than tankies - possibly..

 

Anyway, the Tamiya Cromwell is one of my favourites and I'll be following along. 😀

[simmerit]

I've started a thread with my Cromwell and Centaur which I built in the ARRSE modelling forum, and I'm ready to gloss them when I get a minute and start weathering.

 

There was some good discussion in there - particularly about the use of the star on British panzers.  I left it off the one I've done, which I'm rather glad about as it was an utter pig to do on the top of turret.  I went for Master Club tracks in the end which I am pleased with.  I'm quite liking them, but ran with HobbyBoss on my two Chally's.

 

Enjoy the build.  Its a great panzer and a nice little model.  It will be good to see how you progress with it.

 

 

[Ray_W]

10 hours ago, Das Abteilung said:

As I said, a non-cupola tank is not impossible because of the shortage of "full Final Spec" tanks.  But it does seem less common.

 

The object strapped to the left of the turret (in the photo) is a motorcycle under a tarp.  Same with the tank behind.

 

Hodges & Taylor has AOS 49 assigned to divisional signals, so Div HQ.  That suggests that these might again be command tanks, or maybe Rear Link radio relays.  The muzzle brake doesn't look like the usual false ones as the muzzle hole is deeper than they usually are.  That would certainly explain the tanks carrying solo motorcycles, used by R Signals Dispatch Riders.

 

So much good info in this. Thank you. Once you see the motorcycles under the tarps you cannot unsee them. I'll keep researching subjects before I decide on one.

 

9 hours ago, IanC said:

The photo you have there may well show a RA command/OP tank at the start of Op Goodwood.

 

More great info. Thank you. I like the setting and as mentioned above will keep hunting for subject I want to portray.

 

8 hours ago, simmerit said:

I went for Master Club tracks in the end which I am pleased with.  I'm quite liking them, but ran with HobbyBoss on my two Chally's.

 

Which did you prefer? Any challenges with the Hobby Boss?

 

I checked out your WIP on the two C's, brilliant stuff. I really like the soldered Voyager brass.  

 

Ray

 

 

[simmerit]

6 minutes ago, Ray_W said:

 

So much good info in this. Thank you. Once you see the motorcycles under the tarps you cannot unsee them. I'll keep researching subjects before I decide on one.

 

 

More great info. Thank you. I like the setting and as mentioned above will keep hunting for subject I want to portray.

 

 

Which did you prefer? Any challenges with the Hobby Boss?

 

I checked out your WIP on the two C's, brilliant stuff. I really like the soldered Voyager brass.  

 

Ray

 

 

 

Hello mate, 

 

Both sets of tracks are fine - you wont have a problem with the HobbyBoss ones and both sets paint up well.  On balance, I think I prefer the metal tracks as the sag is more natural.

 

The Amusing Hobby Cent I'm on with at the minute had a set of plastic tracks in it and they were really good, but I decided to make the investment in a MasterClub set.  On balance, I'll go metal every time, and its is a coin flip between Friul and MasterClub, I'll run with the MasterClub every time.

 

Ta re the etch.  It was well worth the effort on the Centaur and Cromwell.  It completely transformed the two panzers.  Its a pain to do, but like the tracks, the effect can be transformational if you get it right.

 

Cheers

 

Si

[echen]

Looking forward to the build here. I like the look of Cromwell tanks but was the Cromwell much use as a tank?

I've read some history and they don't get a very good press in places.

I quote from Mark Urban's book on the 5th RTR in WWII.

" As for their new machines, this also proved a major bone of contention. Most of the armoured units scheduled to take part in the landings in France were to continue with Shermans. The 7th Armoured Division has been chosen to receive the latest version

of the British designed and built cruiser tank, the A27 Cromwell. In 5th RTR they had become unashamedly Americanophile in tank matters, so they cast a jaundiced eye upon the new vehicles.

Soon there were loud complaints about the poor reliability and fighting qualities of the Cromwell.

'Our first impression of it was that someone had dug up an 13 from the museum and was having a very bad joke,' said Sergeant Wardrop. The difficulty of escape from the driver' s compartment when the turret was at certain angles led to mutterings about a 'death trap', and the slab-sided turret (as opposed to one with angled sides and thus a better chance of deflecting an enemy shot) compounded the sense that the Cromwell had been conceived by base barnacles rather than front-line tank soldiers. The cramped crew stations enhanced a feeling of vulnerability for those inside, whereas the roomy interior of the Grant and Sherman had been good for morale.

There were some who could see more positive qualities to the the restricted interior resulted in part from the fact that it sat a couple of feet lower than the Sherman (making a smaller target), was faster and its Meteor engine was derived from. the tried and rested Merlin aircraft motor.

Reliability had indeed been designated the principal quality required Of the Cromwell  ahead of firepower or armoured protection - by the Whitehall and army committees overseeing tank production, following the angry reports in 1941-42 about the hopeless performance of the A 13 and Crusader. In time the tankies would learn that this had paid dividends.

While the discussion of the tank among the old sweats in the Shakers Wood Naafi increasingly expletive-filled. in the early spring Of 1944 in the Royal Corps had appreciated the real Achilles heel of the Cromwell and indeed the this lay in the inadequacy of the 75mm gun to both tanks. 

 

Page 212/213 The Tank War. Mark Urban

 

and from Robert Kershaw's "Tank Men"

Sergeant Jake Wardrop, receiving instruction on the new Cromwell tank, acknowledged it was fast, 'but apart from that it was a disgrace'. Those who had seen action asked more disturbing questions than those who had not. Some veteran tank commanders were cross-posted to green units to share their experience, but in the main men were blissfully unaware of the technology gap. Veterans saw little point in unsettling them as they would find out soon enough. It was thought that an experienced driver could safely drive the tank around a Panther, which had a slow traverse. Its cyclic gearbox enabled it to turn on a circle. Carson had to 'jump' the tank during driving demonstrations to show off its Christie suspension. 'No one went into details about the shortfalls,' he explained, 'we simply knew the Germans were bigger.'

Jake Wardrop was less compromising. 'I hold the designers of that tank and the men who ordered its production personally responsible for the deaths of hundreds of men who fought in those tanks and had a lot more guts and common sense.'

 

Page 298 Tank Men. Robert Kershaw

[Kingsman]

The "inadequacy" of the 75mm gun in Cromwell, Churchill, Sherman and Grant lay in the ammunition.  The US M2, M3 and M6 guns were designed to use ammunition from the M1897 field gun (the WW1 "French 75"), of which the US had copious stock and the machinery to manufacture.  But the US saw the tank as an infantry support device, so HE was prioritised over AP.  Large shell, relatively modest cartridge, moderate velocity.  Don't worry, the Tank Destroyers will deal with enemy tanks.  Except the first of them still used the M1897 gun.........

 

When the UK decided it needed a 75 the decision was taken to make it compatible with the US ammunition already in circulation.  That meant that the 57mm 6pdr could be adapted into a 75 easily because of the relatively low chamber and bore pressures, a big bonus being that it could be exchanged in the same mountings.  We had been working on a High Velocity 75mm project of our own but that was rendered unnecessary by the choice of the US ammunition and the HV75 project morphed into the 17pdr and its 77mmHV sibling.

 

But about 2/3 of the ammunition expended by RAC in the NWE campaign post D-Day was HE and we so much preferred the 75mm Sherman that we were prepared to take remanufactured old 75mm tanks as late as Sept 44 in preference to the new 76mm with its better AP but poorer HE performance.  We did end up taking about 1,300 M4A1(76) and 600 M4(105) but these were mostly confined to Italy.

 

As for armour, the UK had not mastered armour welding by the time of the Cromwell - only about 200 out of about 5,000 were welded - and had not fully transitioned away from Face Hardened to weldable Rolled Homegenous armour plate.  This meant plates attached by bolts and rivets to angle iron frames and/or flanged joints.  Which made sloped armour more difficult.  A cast Churchill-esque turret was experimented-with on Cromwell but not adopted.  Then there was the choice of the BESA MG, which required a vertical plate mounting unlike the M1919 Browning.

 

And the British Cruiser Tank doctrine always prioritised mobility over lethality over survivability in that order.  These were not vehicles for frontal assaults but for breakthrough exploitation, flank attacks etc.  The old cavalry functions. The Infantry Tanks did the heavy slugging.  The Sherman, although classed as a Cruiser, was a more balanced compromise in all 3 areas.

[Ray_W]

This project is still on the go. Been busy with that which pays the bills and completing my Tamiya F-4B build. In the mean time, continuing with my Cromwell reasearch. Still have not selected a final subject. Very close though. 

 

I made the decision to order the Panzer Art Mk 2 cupola and should receive it soon. Should make an interesting if small change to the usual Tamiya fare. Also ordered their resin barrel with muzzle cover while about it. Not a great fan of resin but at least it is not Tamiya's seamed barrel. We'll give it a go. 

 

I decided to throw a little more brass at the subject seeing I was placing an order on some other bits and pieces for another build. The Voyager PE VPE48021 mainly to beat up the ends on the track guards (if I don't remove them altogether). Also giving me another "Normandy cowl" if I decide to use it. Tamiya already provide a plastic option. Irrespective, a lot of other goodies. 

 

 

Also, planning the crew. I have the MiniArt set 35332. The Commander in his leather vest may get saved for another build. Good chance he might lose his head for this build. The rest of the crew are very useful. Could be some more judicious head swapping and Tamiya's Commander might be called in. 🤔 Mmmmm ... I do like those Hornet British tankers beret heads. As usual a lot of cutting and repositioning to come.

 

 

Usual MiniArt fare. Some flash and nice detail. 

 

 

 

Good to get those tanker's helmets you so often see attached to outside of the vehicle in period photos. Quite a handy couple of accesories sprues.

 

 

I'll have to decide on that subject.

 

Ray

[Ray_W]

The last parts I was waiting on have arrived. Thanks to @Das Abteilung with the info on the Panzer Art cupola. These arrived today and are lovely.

 

 

And the reverse side

 

 

I wondered how you make a resin barrel strong enough. Questioned answered. Stick a brass tube down the centre. I know all you AFV experts will say, of course, but being the occasional armour builder I found this a nice solution.

 

 

Need to get started now. 

 

Ray

[simmerit]

I’ve just ordered those mini art tankiesfor my Cent. Are they any good?

[Npal21]

Hi Ray, hope you don't mind, but I'm going to be following this one closely!! Planning one of these as my next build and have just ordered a bunch of goodies from accurate armour. 

Keen to see your progress!

 

[Ray_W]

34 minutes ago, simmerit said:

I’ve just ordered those mini art tankiesfor my Cent. Are they any good?

 

Usual MiniArt fare. They will turn out quite OK. A bit of flash to clean up. In my case on the sprue with most of the body parts.

 

 

Heads are OK, but if you like you could replace them. Every time I look at these close-ups I think of  "Don't call my husband big nose".

 

 

The faces are pleasingly different.

 

 

Insignia details like the beret badge are quite soft.

 

 

And a nice selection of other bits and pieces. I really like the tanker's helmets.

 

 

 

I usually start cutting and swapping parts, re-positioning arms and legs, so consider them great raw material to work with.

 

Ray

 

 

 

 

[simmerit]

36 minutes ago, Ray_W said:

 

Usual MiniArt fare. They will turn out quite OK. A bit of flash to clean up. In my case on the sprue with most of the body parts.

 

 

Heads are OK, but if you like you could replace them. Every time I look at these close-ups I think of  "Don't call my husband big nose".

 

 

The faces are pleasingly different.

 

 

Insignia details like the beret badge are quite soft.

 

 

And a nice selection of other bits and pieces. I really like the tanker's helmets.

 

 

 

I usually start cutting and swapping parts, re-positioning arms and legs, so consider them great raw material to work with.

 

Ray

 

 

 

 

Yep they look pretty good. I have the miniart winter kit set for my Cromwell and Centaur. Not sure what I was thinking about as it’s June!!!

 

I was lucky enough to pick up a set of Inside Armour 1/35 cap badges which are as rare as rocking horse poo.

[Ray_W]

6 minutes ago, simmerit said:

I have the miniart winter kit set for my Cromwell and Centaur. Not sure what I was thinking about as it’s June!!!

 

Yes, when I picked it up I thought it unlikely I will use the leather vest torso. I think the Tamiya Commander will come into play. Well done with your cap badges.