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Bearcat wheel wells


opus999

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I'm planning a Bearcat build... but can't find reliable information about wheel well colors.  All the model instructions I found at scalemates were all zinc chromate or some sort of green.  Pictures I've found on line of restored warbirds and museum pieces have either all navy blue or navy blue wheel wells with gray where the struts go.  I don't put a whole lot of faith in restorations because I've found they are not always accurate.

 

I have Squadron's Bearcat in Action book, but the wheel well photos are from a restored aircraft and from the one in the naval museum.   That last one might be the most reliable.

 

Any help would be appreciated, thanks!

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IIRC the walls of the wheel well would be gloss sea blue (GSB) and the tops of the wells should be either interior green or chromate yellow.  Some may even have had GSB for the top part of the well also.  Others should be along with more info.

Later,

Dave

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Tommy Thomason's article will also help:

 

https://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2014/07/f8f-bearcat-wheels-and-wheel-wells.html

 

Also IPMS Stockholm:

 

https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/interior-colours-of-us-aircraft-1941-45-part-iii/

 

GSB seems a good option if no more up to date info is at hand.

 

Ray

Edited by Ray_W
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I would go with GSB, as Tailspin Turtle stated. If it's any help, the F8F-2P  at the National Museum of Naval Aviation at Pensacola, FL has GSB wheel bays and inner gear door surfaces. BTW, there is a TON of stuff in those wheel bays, including the oil coolers!

Mike

 

Here's a net-maquettes walkaround of a restored F8F-2P; I offer it, not for the colors in the wheel bays, which are not correct, but for the many modeling details pictured. You can go to town on Bearcat wheel bay and gear strut details!

https://www.net-maquettes.com/pictures/grumman-f8f-bearcat-walkaround/

 

Edited by 72modeler
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Thanks everyone.  I forgot about Tailspin's blog, which I've actually used several times. 

 

Now I'm currently researching the blue exterior.  The glossy sea blue is FS35042, if I recall correctly, but I don't think that's the same as Mr. Color's Navy blue, which has a hint of green in it.

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49 minutes ago, opus999 said:

Ah... not 35042 since FS was created in 1950.  ANA623.  Maybe that's what Mr. Color's Navy Blue is?  The bottle just says "US Navy aircraft".  Not too helpful.

 

I did much reading when I did my late war F-4U1D and decided on Gunze Aqueous Hobby Color H55 Midnight Blue as ANA623. Very happy with the result.

 

Corsair_Construction_FInal_10

 

However, this was the late war version of ANA 623 GSB  that was prone to fading subsequently replaced with the more robust 623 and I expect more suitable for your Bearcat. Nice description of this process and plenty of excellent colour images in this article:

 

http://www.gmodelart.com/2020/04/plane-colors-and-camouflage-su-navy.html

 

Having said that, and if was to build a transitional post war GSB, say a Bearcat, I think I would be seriously checking out the Colourcoats offering.

 

https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/products/acus35-post-war-usn-glossy-sea-blue-fs15042

 

Ray

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9 hours ago, Ray_W said:

 

I did much reading when I did my late war F-4U1D and decided on Gunze Aqueous Hobby Color H55 Midnight Blue as ANA623. Very happy with the result.

 

Corsair_Construction_FInal_10

 

However, this was the late war version of ANA 623 GSB  that was prone to fading subsequently replaced with the more robust 623 and I expect more suitable for your Bearcat. Nice description of this process and plenty of excellent colour images in this article:

 

http://www.gmodelart.com/2020/04/plane-colors-and-camouflage-su-navy.html

 

Having said that, and if was to build a transitional post war GSB, say a Bearcat, I think I would be seriously checking out the Colourcoats offering.

 

https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/products/acus35-post-war-usn-glossy-sea-blue-fs15042

 

Ray

 

Ray,

 

Thanks for such a terrific resource!  I'm impressed with the thorough treatment they give to this topic.  Reading the article it looks like Mr. Color Navy Blue is a match for ANA 607,which is used in the 3 color scheme.  Luckily I've got a Corsair and a TBF in the stash that will use it.

 

The Bearcat was going to be a US Navy Bearcat, but I've switched to a French indochina Bearcat.  I've got another Bearcat kit on the way that will be USN.  The change had to do with the subject aircraft being a F8F-1 and not an F8F-1B.  I thought it would be fun to do both variants. 

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13 hours ago, opus999 said:

Now I'm currently researching the blue exterior.  The glossy sea blue is FS35042, if I recall correctly, but I don't think that's the same as Mr. Color's Navy blue, which has a hint of green in it.

 

13 hours ago, opus999 said:

Ah... not 35042 since FS was created in 1950.  ANA623.  Maybe that's what Mr. Color's Navy Blue is?  The bottle just says "US Navy aircraft".  Not too helpful.

tricky area.

Depends on what date your Bearcat is from.   Model paint gets confused about what GSB actually is,  which is ot surprising as the details quoted are usually wrong,  but this is from @Dana Bell

"There are a couple of other reasons the model paint manufacturers have had problems matching the Sea Blues.  Most are working from the FS595 chips, which never accurately matched all three versions of the wartime colors.  The other problem is that the formula for ANA 623 Glossy Sea Blue changed in 1947/48.  The original color faded to quickly and was replaced with more resilient pigments.  When the US Navy gave modelers the old stocks of ANA paint chips in the 1960s/70s, some of us got the 1944 card-stock chip of ANA 623, while others got the 1948 metal replacement chips.  I can well remember the arguments back then, arguments that arose because we were working from different standards!"

 

As best I understand this, 

ANA 623  Glossy Sea Blue was from 1944 to 1947, when the paint was changed, as the original ANA 623 was prone to fading, this was then replaced by a new GSB,  and this color,  was later incorporated in the FS595 as 15042, and is the 1950's GSB

 

As best as I can judge from chips in the Elliot US Navy USMC Monogram book, and a FS 595 deck,  the original paint was a 'deep smoky blue' (description courtesy of @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies

FS15042 has a greener hue. 

 

The chips are very dark, and you really need to see them in bright sunlight to pick up on the subtle color differences.  

 

for a fuller discussion 

 

So, as you imagine this creates a good deal of confusion,  and I presume some types got repainted from the old to the new type due to fading.

 

The only model paint that gets this difference is Colourcoats i believe.  

 

If model paint says it's ANA 623/FS 15042 then it's likely to be wrong.  And, AFAIK, mots if them are, or are matched to the post 1947 variant.    I don't have the Mr Color paint to comment.

 

HTH 

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@Troy Smith  Thanks for the link to the other discussion.  Whew!  That's enough to make the head spin.  I did find the Helldiver picture extremely useful to differentiate between ANA 606 and ANA 607.  But making sure to get the right hobby paint to match still seems difficult to me.  I guess I'll burn that bridge when I get to it with my Corsair.  For now, I have a better idea of what to look at for my Bearcat (and NOT 15042, which I almost ignorantly did... 😛 ). 

 

I'd like to get a hold of some Colourcoats, but it seems that there's only one place in the US that sells them, and when I tried to get a couple tins 3 or 4 years ago, there was something keeping me from doing that -- I can't remember what, either they didn't have much in stock, or there was a minimum order amount I couldn't fill, or something.  I'll have to take a look again since they come highly recommended.

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Colourcoats is now available in the US, from (I gather) at least two sources.  I know that when Jamie Duff took over Colourcoats after the closure of White Ensign Models he had considerable trouble exporting them because of stricter rules on aerial carriage introduced to combat terrorism (and apparently after come nasty incidents in baggage holds from "exploding" silver paint - not his.)  If you look at the Sovereign Hobbies website you should be able to find reference to current US outlets. 

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2 hours ago, opus999 said:

Whew!  That's enough to make the head spin.

well, yes. But, that's the answer(s)..    Again, thanks to @Dana Bell for sorting out these detail and making them available to us all.

 

If you are really fussed, look for 

9780914144328-uk-300.jpg

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?isbn=0914144324&cm_sp=mbc-_-ISBN-_-all

 

Sort of thing to put on a want list and wait, I got one by chance at the Aviation Bookshop, as they can turn up for a lot less, but do check they have the chips! 

 

I have had a go at mixing and matching colors,   if you can't get colourcoats, 

see here for details of the US stockists

https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/pages/where-to-buy

 

@Mike Starmer made a ANA 623 mix using 4 parts humbrol 77 Sea Blue to 1 part 68 Purple....

 

Given that Tamiya paint can not always be consistent,  but inspired by the above, I found a 1:1 mix of Tamiya  XF-17 Sea Blue to X-16 Purple made a very close visual match, and it's not a mix I'd have thought of unaided!  

 

see here for someone who used my mix, and some GSB pics

 I'd not made simple mixes for ANA 606 and 607 but they are similar to ANA 623. 

 

Note, the book has a wider range of color chip than might be realised, as it cover UK lend Lease, and some USAAF ANA colors as well,   so if you are serious about color, it's a worthwhile investment,  if you are a big USn/USMC fan, it's pretty much essential.

 

HTH

T

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7 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Colourcoats is now available in the US, from (I gather) at least two sources.  I know that when Jamie Duff took over Colourcoats after the closure of White Ensign Models he had considerable trouble exporting them because of stricter rules on aerial carriage introduced to combat terrorism (and apparently after come nasty incidents in baggage holds from "exploding" silver paint - not his.)  If you look at the Sovereign Hobbies website you should be able to find reference to current US outlets. 

The first place is H&B Hobbies.  They are at: https://www.hbhobbies.com

They had some stock problems in the past but seem to have gotten a re-stock in the past 18 months or so.  The other place is the new White Ensign Models.  They are here: https://www.whiteensignmodels.com/

The last time I checked they looked to have most of the naval and aircraft colors in stock.  As far as I know they do not have a minimum order while H&B requires at least a $30 order.

Later,

Dave

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