MH434

[LiamZV]

I was thinking of building spitfire MH434 with the revell Spitfire MKIX 1/32 kit and I wanted to know a little bit about its construction. I saw an image of it in 1944 where it had a small carburettor intake. Now a days it has an extended one. Would this have been added to it during the war or in restoration? And was MH434 always an LF MK IX? Can someone help?

 

Thanks in advance.

[112 Squadron]

MH434 was build as an LF MK IX:

 

http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/p063.html

[LiamZV]

Thanks. But what about the short carb intake?

[LiamZV]

Hi guys, I was thinking of making Spitfire LF MK IX MH434 with revell’s 1/32 spitfire MK IX and I just wanted to know about it’s construction through it’s years. I saw a picture of it during 1944 at Hornchurch and I noticed that it had a short intake (like a MK V’s). Now a days it has a large intake. Would this have been fitted during the war or in restoration? And, would it be an early or a late production MK IX (built in August 1943)?
 

Thanks in advance.

Edited October 23, 2021 by LiamZV

[Tbolt]

1 minute ago, LiamZV said:

Hi guys, I was thinking of making Spitfire LF MK IX MH434 with revell’s 1/32 spitfire MK IX and I just wanted to know about it’s construction through it’s years. I saw a picture of it during 1944 at Hornchurch and I noticed that it had a short intake (like a MK V’s). Now a days it has a large intake. Would this have been fitted during the war or in restoration? And, would it be an early or a late production MK IX (built in August 1943)?
 

Thanks in advance.

 

Why are you asking again? 😜

[112 Squadron]

4 hours ago, LiamZV said:

Thanks. But what about the short carb intake?

 

The early Mk IX had initially short carburettor intakes. Those machines such as MH434 that survived long enough to participate in the D-Day Invasion were later modified.

 

You can find  some references here:

 

 http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/spitfire-mk-ix-xi-and-xvi-variants-much-varied.html/2

[fishplanebeer]

Originally fitted with a Merlin 66 but now apparently has a 76 not that this changes anything externally. As an LF.IX it would have had the 'c' wing but at some point the outer canon apertures were faired over making it look like a 'b' but IX's were never fitted with this wing. I'm pretty sure this aspect has been discussed in depth in the past so worth searching to find the relevant post(s).

 

All the period photos I have of MH434 show it with the later 'Vee' carb' intake so it was definitely fitted whilst in active service and I'm surprised it didn't have this when built (in August 1943) as it was not exactly an early one, but I'm not sure exactly when the new intake was introduced on the production line.

 

Regards

Colin.

 

 

[Graham Boak]

Not actually faired over, no.  A small number of Mk.IXs were fitted with  the small section of the leading edge that fits over the inboard gun position lacking the outer cannon stub, much as the Seafire IIIs were.  This was intended to became standard but didn't - possibly because the introduction of the 0.5 machine gun was foreseen.  Yes this was discussed before: if you go back far enough you'll actually find photos of the respective parts and the responsible Mod Number.  Sorry, no idea when but a long time ago.

[LiamZV]

21 hours ago, 112 Squadron said:

 

The early Mk IX had initially short carburettor intakes. Those machines such as MH434 that survived long enough to participate in the D-Day Invasion were later modified.

 

You can find  some references here:

 

 http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/spitfire-mk-ix-xi-and-xvi-variants-much-varied.html/2

 
so later after the picture taken by Bill Burge in 1944,  a longer carb intake would have been applied?

 

Regards

Liam.

Edited October 22, 2021 by LiamZV

[LiamZV]

22 hours ago, Tbolt said:

 

Why are you asking again? 😜

I just wasn’t quite understanding and I thought if I put it out twice more people would see it.

[Tbolt]

1 hour ago, LiamZV said:

I just wasn’t quite understanding and I thought if I put it out twice more people would see it.

 

Better to just bump your originally post 👍

[LiamZV]

Ok Thanks guys

 

regards

Liam.

[alt-92]

Note to reader: if this thread seems to have a weird flow, you're correct. It's two threads merged. 

 

--- 

For those interested: the picture is visible in this thread https://www.key.aero/comment/188692#comment-188692  posted there by @Mark12

[fishplanebeer]

The pic in the link looks more like MH454, also an LF.IX built in August 1943, or am I seeing things?

 

To my aged eyes the second number definitely looks more like a 5 than a 3 but perhaps a higher res' and/or clearer version is available to confirm?

 

Regards

Colin.

[LiamZV]

I saw that too but I originally found it on OFMC’s Instagram and I thought it was the picture quality.

[LiamZV]

I found this website that shows pictures from MH434’a past. http://www.sbap.be/events/2016/008ambiorix2016/008ambiorix2016.htm

[gingerbob]

7 hours ago, fishplanebeer said:

The pic in the link looks more like MH454, also an LF.IX built in August 1943, or am I seeing things?

 

When I saved the image and zoomed in I could see a diagonal line against the Sky band connecting the right end of the top (horizontal) bar to the "circular" lower part of the numeral, thus I do believe that it is 434.

 

bob

[alt-92]

At least it's good to see that the pic of MH434 as H-105 isn't captioned as being on Semarang - it still shows the RAF fin flash & camo as delivered in 1946/7 to the Fighter School unit (JVS) and the terrain matches the elevations around Twente Airfield:

 

 

[LiamZV]

Do you think the Vee carburettor intake was added in time with the Netherlands or during british service in WW2.

 

[alt-92]

Going out on a limb here: I'd say in RAF service in maintenance. It was not uncommon for a/c having a major servicing to receive these kind of updates ( keeping in mind 50 hours is engine maintenance, 250-300 hours is a point where engine replacement becomes a consideration).

 

Seeing as both MH434 and MJ271 (yes, the Silver Spitfire) both served with 322 Sqn RNLAF, I've spent some time hunting down all sorts of info - for science, of course

 

Some 401 Sqn Spits during late 1944 while based at B.88 Heesch  - when MJ271 was in use there.

 

412 Sqn (VZ) with IXe Spits, also at Heesch. My Grandfather was one of the workers digging drainage ditches  (not in this pic but it shows the work)

 

Post-war deliveries of ex RAF Spits to the RNLAF in 1946 were all fitted with Aerovee. 

Pre-delivery checkflight:

 

Line-up of 332 Spits at Twente JVS in 1947

 

 

 

There is that picture from 1943 (!) with the short intake. Also note the drop tank instead of the slipper here, and no visible 'stub' next to the Hispano.

And, apparently, covers on the wheel hubs.

 

That fairing did get carried over in RNLAF service as H-105 - notice the bomb carrier position and Aerovee.

[LiamZV]

29 minutes ago, alt-92 said:

Going out on a limb here: I'd say in RAF service in maintenance. It was not uncommon for a/c having a major servicing to receive these kind of updates ( keeping in mind 50 hours is engine maintenance, 250-300 hours is a point where engine replacement becomes a consideration).

 

Seeing as both MH434 and MJ271 (yes, the Silver Spitfire) both served with 322 Sqn RNLAF, I've spent some time hunting down all sorts of info - for science, of course

 

Some 401 Sqn Spits during late 1944 while based at B.88 Heesch  - when MJ271 was in use there.

 

412 Sqn (VZ) with IXe Spits, also at Heesch. My Grandfather was one of the workers digging drainage ditches  (not in this pic but it shows the work)

 

Post-war deliveries of ex RAF Spits to the RNLAF in 1946 were all fitted with Aerovee. 

Pre-delivery checkflight:

 

Line-up of 332 Spits at Twente JVS in 1947

 

 

 

There is that picture from 1943 (!) with the short intake. Also note the drop tank instead of the slipper here, and no visible 'stub' next to the Hispano.

And, apparently, covers on the wheel hubs.

 

That fairing did get carried over in RNLAF service as H-105 - notice the bomb carrier position and Aerovee.

So when MH434 stood down from service with the RAF In 1945 it would have had a Vee carburettor?

[fishplanebeer]

Returning briefly to the pic that I think may be MH454 and not MH434 I've checked the style of how the 'three' was shown in serials and it has two curves upper and lower instead of a lower curve and a straight line at the upper, so for me at least I still believe the pic shows MH454.

 

Regards

Colin.

[LiamZV]

6 hours ago, fishplanebeer said:

Returning briefly to the pic that I think may be MH454 and not MH434 I've checked the style of how the 'three' was shown in serials and it has two curves upper and lower instead of a lower curve and a straight line at the upper, so for me at least I still believe the pic shows MH454.

 

Regards

Colin.

It does have the squadron code of 222 Sq (ZD) MH454 didn’t serve with 222 Sq.