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P-47N Aftermarket? Academy ´s- opinons?


Paramedic

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Hi,

 

made post about this topic yesterday but in thw wrong forum, reported myself ☺️ but could not be bothered to make a new when it was deleted, not moved... Well not until now!

 

Just missed the "Expected Goose" boxing in 2012 and has been half-hearted looking for one since. Picked up the Revell/Probuilder´s the other week but now was told in the "Searching For" section that Academy re-releases it soon. And Scalemates says Novemeber iirc.

Today I went to one of my friendly, locla shops (I am fortunate to have a couple still!) and they could order it! So asked for two..

 

Anyways - I see that there is some Aftermarket, a Neomega cockpit and an Aires one. The Neomega seems to be for both the Academy and the Revell/Probuilder. The Aires for the Academy only. Any opinions on those? Any expereince?

 

The model seems to have the wrong engine and propeller - so the same question for those engines and props around? vector has en engine and a corrected propeller (cuffs?). I´m building the Tamiya M right now, and the engine is not that visible, but that front that looks imilar kinda is.. I like to correct such stuff but the engine will cost as much as the model.. 😕 Without the prop.. Feels like it would be worth picking them all up if I pull of a great paint job but..

 

Whatever.. Any opinions on those AM parts? Maybe new wheels are needed too? never built any Academy Jugs, only the Tamiya 1/72 and the 1/48 M I´m about to attach wings on right now....

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I would go with the Vector for the cockpit. I don't know if the Aires cockpit got redone but the older one I have isn't that great.

 

You can either get the Vector prop (I think they are the only ones to do an M/N prop) or modify kit ones.

 

I did use the Ultracast wheels on my build but I had to modify them as most of the wheels I've seen on N's were slightly differently. True Details also do a set of N wheels though they have incorrectly labeled them as D wheels (from the product pictures I've seen anyway).

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Thanks Tbolt, was hoping you would pop in.. :)

 

I don´t have a spare M prop, painting the one kit I have right now with the, semi-correct prop...

The Neomega cockpit looks pretty nice, probably a bit like "throwing pearls to the pigs" as we say here though.. ;) (Can I do it justice??)

 

I´ll have a look for thosw wheels too then!

 

How´s Academy decals these days? "Expected Goose" is one of the birds I want to do.. But I have the Revell decals too but no "professional" AM ones.

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2 minutes ago, Paramedic said:

Thanks Tbolt, was hoping you would pop in.. :)

 

I don´t have a spare M prop, painting the one kit I have right now with the, semi-correct prop...

The Neomega cockpit looks pretty nice, probably a bit like "throwing pearls to the pigs" as we say here though.. ;) (Can I do it justice??)

 

I´ll have a look for thosw wheels too then!

 

How´s Academy decals these days? "Expected Goose" is one of the birds I want to do.. But I have the Revell decals too but no "professional" AM ones.

 

I should point out, though I modified the Ultracast wheels by filling in all the slots around the edge of the wheels, I only did this from photos that were not that clear, but I couldn't see the slots so that's what I went with. The True Details wheels have these slots also, so it may be me that is incorrect.

 

I'm not aware of Academy decals being improved though I haven't used them for a long time. 

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I am not really that knowledgable about their wheels, any model, anyways..😚 Just saw in my M-box that there were two variants.. And by the way - isn´t that an N-"spine"/fin fillét in there?? I guess it was never done.. 😕 But looks like one to me? And the third, no idea? Late D-model? (Thought it looked like the M´s?)

 

I´ll have a look when in pops in and report back then.. ;)

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1 hour ago, Paramedic said:

I am not really that knowledgable about their wheels, any model, anyways..😚 Just saw in my M-box that there were two variants.. And by the way - isn´t that an N-"spine"/fin fillét in there?? I guess it was never done.. 😕 But looks like one to me? And the third, no idea? Late D-model? (Thought it looked like the M´s?)

 

I´ll have a look when in pops in and report back then.. ;)

 

The main difference in the wheels is the D had six spokes and the N had eight, though some warbird D have the eight spoke wheels fitted.

 

The N style fillet is probably included in the kit because it was fitted to this specially marked up M. I recall seeing another M that looked like it had and N style fillet on as well. I'm not sure what the intermediate fillet is about.

 

media-38061.jpeg

 

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Ah, I have seen that bird but never realzied it hadn N-style fin fillét..! Too bad they never made an N, but I´ll gte by I guess.. ;)

 

There´s a couple of books I still need to pick up for refrences phots and what not..

 

 

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Not my scale, of course, but a couple of suggestions for a 1/48 P-47N:

  • The N's wheels had eight slots, the D/M's had six. (A lot of the restored airworthy Jugs have N wheels fitted, as they are both stronger and much easier to find; IIRC F-84E/G's also used the same wheel as the P-47N. )
  • The F4U-4/5/7/AU-1 used the C-series R-2800 with the cylindrical crankcase with the additional bolts, so you could source the crankcase  from any aftermarket source or kit engine from one of those variants; the N used different magnetos than the Corsair, but they can be scratchbuilt or taken from your P-47N kit.
  • IIRC, the N used the symmetrical  paddle blade prop, and that can be sourced from a Tamiya P-47D/M, I believe, or from the aftermarket; IIRC one of the N kits has the correct prop, but not being a 1/48 guy, I'm not sure if it comes in the Monogram/Revell or Academy kit.

Mike

 

If you model your N with the canopy open, don't forget to put the LH armrest up! :giggle:

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lol, was there a cup holder too?? ;)

 

Thanks!

 

I don´t think the cuffs are correct for the props in the kits? I´ll have a look tomorrow though. I have the Revell one so can check that (and the Tamiya I´m doing right now)

 

Hmm, now I need to find an F-84 and butcher for those feet..

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40 minutes ago, Paramedic said:

lol, was there a cup holder too??

No, but there was an auto pilot, and in the factory cockpit diagram, an ashtray!

All of the paddle blade  props did have cuffs; it's the blade profiles  that changed.

Mike

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8 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Not my scale, of course, but a couple of suggestions for a 1/48 P-47N:

  • The N's wheels had eight slots, the D/M's had six. (A lot of the restored airworthy Jugs have N wheels fitted, as they are both stronger and much easier to find; IIRC F-84E/G's also used the same wheel as the P-47N. )
  • The F4U-4/5/7/AU-1 used the C-series R-2800 with the cylindrical crankcase with the additional bolts, so you could source the crankcase  from any aftermarket source or kit engine from one of those variants; the N used different magnetos than the Corsair, but they can be scratchbuilt or taken from your P-47N kit.
  • IIRC, the N used the symmetrical  paddle blade prop, and that can be sourced from a Tamiya P-47D/M, I believe, or from the aftermarket; IIRC one of the N kits has the correct prop, but not being a 1/48 guy, I'm not sure if it comes in the Monogram/Revell or Academy kit.

Mike

 

If you model your N with the canopy open, don't forget to put the LH armrest up! :giggle:

 

Yes like Paramedic said the Tamiya and the other kit manufacturers missed the fact that the cuffs are different on the M/N prop. Not difficult to modify the Tamiya prop, but it would take a bit of time getting all the cuffs to match.

 

I wouldn't trying using the distributors and magneto block from the Academy kit as they are rubbish and using anything else would be better! Even the tail wheel stuck on there would look more realistic! 😂

 

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9 hours ago, Paramedic said:

lol, was there a cup holder too?? ;)

 

Thanks!

 

I don´t think the cuffs are correct for the props in the kits? I´ll have a look tomorrow though. I have the Revell one so can check that (and the Tamiya I´m doing right now)

 

Hmm, now I need to find an F-84 and butcher for those feet..

You know what the Germans said about the Jug pilots running around in there.....😉

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13 hours ago, 72modeler said:

No, but there was an auto pilot, and in the factory cockpit diagram, an ashtray!

All of the paddle blade  props did have cuffs; it's the blade profiles  that changed.

Mike

 

I knew about the auto pilot and arm rests (and the foldable pedals) but not about the ashtray! lol Might as well put ina  fridge and so on too? ;)

 

Ah, I thought the cuffs on their propeller-blades were slightly different in shape, but you say the prop blades are, making the cuffs look different?

Recently read up on cuffs, well, a  bit.. Did not know they were made from rubber (?) and so on. Did not even know their purpose until recently.. I saw that our remaining J 26 at Flygvapenmuseum here, lacked cuffs but most pics (but not all!) had them with it so got curious.. (I wonder if our display J 26 had its props switched during its time in ISreale.. NVM..)

 

6 hours ago, Tbolt said:

 

Yes like Paramedic said the Tamiya and the other kit manufacturers missed the fact that the cuffs are different on the M/N prop. Not difficult to modify the Tamiya prop, but it would take a bit of time getting all the cuffs to match.

 

I wouldn't trying using the distributors and magneto block from the Academy kit as they are rubbish and using anything else would be better! Even the tail wheel stuck on there would look more realistic! 😂

 

 

Ah, alright.. Sounds like I´m going hard on the AM after all.. Ah well. I love my Jugs so.. :)

 

5 hours ago, Bozothenutter said:

You know what the Germans said about the Jug pilots running around in there.....😉

 

Yeah! Does it hav e a piddle-tube like the P-51s? I think I rather take an N to Japan than a P-51D.. But then - Jugs > Mustangs.. (it´s close but..)

 

@Tbolt - or anyone else for that matter, have you seen any P-47Ms with three drop tanks? In particular, 2x 150 (was it?) under the wings and something on the belly? Putting together my Tamiya one and glued those things on the belly.. Feels empty, a little bit, without a bag.. The big ones on the wings will go on but can i put a third on, of some sort..?

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3 hours ago, Paramedic said:

 

Recently read up on cuffs, well, a  bit.. Did not know they were made from rubber (?) and so on. Did not even know their purpose until recently.

 

And what is their purpose?

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4 hours ago, Paramedic said:

 

I knew about the auto pilot and arm rests (and the foldable pedals) but not about the ashtray! lol Might as well put ina  fridge and so on too? ;)

 

Ah, I thought the cuffs on their propeller-blades were slightly different in shape, but you say the prop blades are, making the cuffs look different?

Recently read up on cuffs, well, a  bit.. Did not know they were made from rubber (?) and so on. Did not even know their purpose until recently.. I saw that our remaining J 26 at Flygvapenmuseum here, lacked cuffs but most pics (but not all!) had them with it so got curious.. (I wonder if our display J 26 had its props switched during its time in ISreale.. NVM..)

 

 

Ah, alright.. Sounds like I´m going hard on the AM after all.. Ah well. I love my Jugs so.. :)

 

 

Yeah! Does it hav e a piddle-tube like the P-51s? I think I rather take an N to Japan than a P-51D.. But then - Jugs > Mustangs.. (it´s close but..)

 

@Tbolt - or anyone else for that matter, have you seen any P-47Ms with three drop tanks? In particular, 2x 150 (was it?) under the wings and something on the belly? Putting together my Tamiya one and glued those things on the belly.. Feels empty, a little bit, without a bag.. The big ones on the wings will go on but can i put a third on, of some sort..?

 

I believe the N did have a relief tube, but so did the D.

 

I've seen M's with 150's under the wings, but I don't remember seeing anything on the centreline. But it may have happened since it was possible to have another drop tank under the belly as well. I think the M looks just as good without anything on it.

 

51272093148_fa3f38ced8_o.jpg

 

 

 

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Yeah that looks good.. :) That is a beautiful build!

 

I want my big hinkers on though - under the wings.. I realized I need a bird from each of 56th FS however so.. The kit is so wonderful, really gives the Jug justice!

 

Pretty decent picture of two 200 gal (?) drop tanks here: (If I managed to get the timestamp right! - at 45.45)

 

 

 

I kinda like that too, massive bags! Double D Jug? ;)

 

What paints did you use there by the way? The blues look great..

 

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5 hours ago, Paramedic said:

but you say the prop blades are, making the cuffs look different?

No, the cuffs are different between the prop versions, as the blade profiles are different; I just meant all of the P-47 props had cuffs- sorry for the confusion; I had forgotten about the adjustable pedals- the Mustang pilots in the ETO and PTO used to put their feet against the instrument panel on long missions, and I  vaguely recall reading that one of the WW2 4th FG aces had an ashtray in his Mustang...smoke 'em if you got 'em!

 

The cuffs were a very hard rubber-like phenolic material, same as the ones used on B-26, SB2C, and P-51 props. On many warbird Mustangs, the cuffs are removed, as replacements aren't available and the cost of making new ones for such a small number of airplanes would be astronomical, and with the more efficient  new-manufacture radiators, and lower power settings due to the low octane aviation fuels used now, they really aren't needed to assist in cooling.

Mike

Edited by 72modeler
corrected text
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55 minutes ago, Paramedic said:

Yeah that looks good.. :) That is a beautiful build!

 

I want my big hinkers on though - under the wings.. I realized I need a bird from each of 56th FS however so.. The kit is so wonderful, really gives the Jug justice!

 

Pretty decent picture of two 200 gal (?) drop tanks here: (If I managed to get the timestamp right! - at 45.45)

 

 

 

I kinda like that too, massive bags! Double D Jug? ;)

 

What paints did you use there by the way? The blues look great..

 

 

I think  those tanks are 150's. The 200 was wider.

 

On Darling Dottie I used Alclad II for the NMF then Colourcoats Insignia blue and for the lighter blue, Colourcoats Azure blue which I lightened with some white.

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Hmm, you seem to be right.. I was not aware of flat 150 gallon ones.. I think.. But I see others call it that too. I guess I avoid it and go for the big (don´t dare to say their volume now! ;) ) ones on the wings only.. I put in the.. Things.. On the belly and wanted to give them a purpose so.. But nvm.

 

Cool. Insignia blue and Azure blue - I´ll try that! I have decals for.... Hmm? Miss June I think (Microscale) as well as Dottie Dee.

 

Edit: The drop tanks confused me again - despite that thread  a few weeks ago.. :P How many flat tanks are there?? I see some call *this* 150, other 200.. Or am I looking at two different tanks.. lol  Need to re-read all links I got.. 😕

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33 minutes ago, Paramedic said:

Hmm, you seem to be right.. I was not aware of flat 150 gallon ones.. I think.. But I see others call it that too. I guess I avoid it and go for the big (don´t dare to say their volume now! ;) ) ones on the wings only.. I put in the.. Things.. On the belly and wanted to give them a purpose so.. But nvm.

 

Cool. Insignia blue and Azure blue - I´ll try that! I have decals for.... Hmm? Miss June I think (Microscale) as well as Dottie Dee.

 

Edit: The drop tanks confused me again - despite that thread  a few weeks ago.. :P How many flat tanks are there?? I see some call *this* 150, other 200.. Or am I looking at two different tanks.. lol  Need to re-read all links I got.. 😕

 

Yes it does get a bit confusing as some tank do get called by slightly different sizes. The 150 tank had an actual capacity of 165 gallons, not to be confused with the 165 gallon tank! 

 

The 200 gallon tanks had a capacity of 215 gallons and Roger Freeman states that the 56th FG did receive them near the end of 1944 though I don't think I've ever seen a picture of one being used in Europe. I've seen them being used in the Pacific though I'm not sure if they were the same tanks. These tanks were commonly known as Brisbane tanks.

 

p47-ford-drop-tank-rothman.jpg

 

thumbnail1.jpg

 

Also note that the 150 gallon tanks came in either folded or welded type. The Tamiya kit is obviously the folded type and I modelled the welded type just by removing the fold.

 

DSC_3990E3W

 

 

And the "Things" are sway braces.

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That´s what they are called? Cool. :) Those I should have glued to the tanks on my M yesterday - and not the "pylons" to the wings as well.. ><

 

I thought I had the tanks nailed down again - but i did not.. :P I did not know there was both folded and welded either, thanks! And the build is great as usual. Don´t think I have ever seen that subject, really nice. The "other" Balls Out is a fav however..

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I could not help it.. Was working on the primer on my M.. Started a P-51B -waited for something to cure on it.. And saw my N.. Suddenlya  few pieces had been cut off..

 

That Revell/Pro Modeller kit is a bit crude, but it is not too bad. But the cockpit is a bit funny compared to the Tamiya one. MASSIVE, HUGE rudder pedals and a tiny instrument panel. Yet I love it. :)

(Cannot wait for my Academy ones though. To compare them if nothing else..)

 

yet the side walls are very detailed! Correct? Dunno, looks alright - and busy! I might need to build more older kits (Tamiya Jugs doesn´t count! They are amazing!)

 

 

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@Tbolt - stumbled upon your name in some other thread about various colours.. You mentioned black as oockpit colour in P-47Ns? Am I right that, that happened post-war . late 40s, early 50s maybe? In other words, any Ie Shime or Iwo Jima subject should be Interior Dark Dull Green (as MRp calls it)?

 

Just happened to stumble upon that.. Knew I have read about black cockpits for Ns before - but forgot (and iirc some P-51s had that treatment too?). Just painted my Revell N Dark Dull Green.... ;) (2 Big And Too Heavy probably)
 

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