SallysDad Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 I was looking at these models and I need information to help me decide on which kit to get. I know there are different versions of the Mig-31, so the question focuses on the kits in general Thanks. Randolph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drake122 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 The general rule of thumb for me when picking a kit HobbyBoss/Trumpeter vs. anyone is to always NOT pick HB/Trumpy. Every time in the past I pick their kit and start building it I felt like what a waste of money: - bought their J11/Su-27 family - realized they "forgot" to include ALL hydraulic pistons for gear bay doors - bought their 72nd Mig-31 - realized they forgot to include 2 whole gear bay doors! Also a nasty mismould on the canopy🤦♂️ - I bought their 72nd Su-34 kit... realized the entire gun bay area is wrong, APU exhaust grilles from the tail are missing, nacelles are wrong shape and have inaccurate detail, wingtip fillets for ECM pods are missing and nose shape is completely wrong. This supposedly best-in-scale kit for 50 euros requires another 50-70 euros worth of aftermarket or equal amount of hours of scratchbuilding to make it accurate! Their engineering is generally good, but the subjects are very poorly researched. So, for me, HobbyBoss/Trumpeter - never again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg B Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Looked at both kits in the plastic. I went for the AMK kit. You should be able to pick it up with the brass gear legs as well either as an upgrade box or as part of a special edition release, that is a big plus. Mike also built it here: Link 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallysDad Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 Thank you to both of you. I much appreciate your help. It is the AMK kit then for me. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnl42 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 You need to consider the specific kit. Their 1/48 A-6's are best in class. I prefer their F4Fs over Tamiya. At the opposite end, their 1/48 F6F has a too large canopy--no clue how to fix that. Their 1/48 LCM3 fully botched the ramp lift mechanisms and flubbed the conning station, skeg, and rudder, but it's all fixable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Mig-31 AMK kit is no straight way either. Instruction: Mainly superb, in some sections absolute missleading. You may end up in a nowhere. Some parts can only be dry fitted once! No chance to get them out once more. Front gear! Look at my WIP! Center rear part bottom. Gear bay installation some parts it is better to leave out and install later. Very tricky! Cockpit dry fit perfect, when sprayd installation of seats and accutataors difficult! On and on. Read my WIP! Happy modelling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 To drake 122 regarding Su-34: Here you must differ which version of production you want. It is an early production 34. There was no APU. There was no wing fillet for ECM. I notice on complaints in general a sort of China bashing. If you are so firm on the 34 you may know the earlier versions too. The radom of Academy Su-27 is also incorrect! I got the correction. I built F-16 for the IAF years ago. Had to notice that all well recomended companies had flaws in their kits. ALL! I bought tons of resin but actually I reduced my accuracy not to become fed up! Happy modelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertie McBoatface Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 8 minutes ago, dov said: actually I reduced my accuracy not to become fed up! That is a logical and sensible adjustment of our expectations to match the real world of model kit manufacture. It's one simple way for modellers to improve their mental health prospects and I heartily commend it to the house. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drake122 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 hour ago, dov said: To drake 122 regarding Su-34: Here you must differ which version of production you want. It is an early production 34. There was no APU. There was no wing fillet for ECM. I notice on complaints in general a sort of China bashing. If you are so firm on the 34 you may know the earlier versions too. The radom of Academy Su-27 is also incorrect! I got the correction. I built F-16 for the IAF years ago. Had to notice that all well recomended companies had flaws in their kits. ALL! I bought tons of resin but actually I reduced my accuracy not to become fed up! Happy modelling I couldn't care less about China. Why do you mix country/ethnic related hate into this? They have a 2017 new tooling, instructions and boxart depicting a up-to-date Fullback, costing 50+ Euros for a 72nd scale kit and it is full of errors and shortcomings. Their boxart has the jet depicted with the mentioned wing fillets ffs.🙄 Had to buy a external PE set by A2-squared to correct external detail issues, Quickboost nose cone, wheel and mudguard set by Reskit and scratchbuild many more things to make it accurate for my own tastes. As opposed to that, you have Zvezda Flankers that cost 20 Euros tops and are generally accurate out of the box. Or you have the GWH Su-35, which is in similar price range of 50 Euros, but delivers a much better kit. Similarly the Trumpeter Mig-31 in 72nd scale, comes without parts of landing gear doors, which you can of course cannibalize from a old Zvezda kit, and the mentioned mismould on the canopy part which needs filing and polishing in a terrible place to work with. There was also many smaller external inaccuracies, but easily correctable without buying separate sets. There is a whole thread here on BM or over on ARC documenting these. And that kit costs 35-40 Euros as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Trumpeter 01652 Su-34 Fullback fighter-bomber is an early version. The box art shows you exactly an early version. Why do you claim a late version? You say: full of errors and shortcomings. How do you know? If you can not differ between an early and late version? If you have no clue about this aircraft, so what? Did you read Airwingmodels critics of the Su-34 in 1/48? I suppose so. You criticize the same things. The language on this forum is full of dirty low level words! Disgusting such critics! This is China bashing 100%. The Model world is tolerant, beside the exact model. Tolerant for flaws. We must be, otherwise we all would become psychic. I had to learn it also! So stay straight! What do you want? If you buy a kit and see the boxart so you will have seen that there are no fillets between the ECM pods and leading edge of the wing. This is the early version. If you want to have a clue on the Su-27 family before starting modelling, so buy the book from Gordon https://www.amazon.de/Sukhoi-27-30-33-34/dp/1910809187 and please read it! If you refer to GWH kits: Have you ever built an F-15 from them? The wing leading edge and air intake are simple a sin! Awful really! Your request on the landing gear doors of the MIG-31: Did you contact them? I did it already. They do answer. Maybe it takes some time. It really works. If you buy a F-16 kit, do you know which block number the model will represent? Honestly, do you know it? I say no, not at all. No matter which version, the block number you may probably not know at all. I just watch a sort of anti-China mood all over. But, if we would not have all the China based companies, what would we have? Yes, we would have companies in the former Eastern Europe and Russian world. Yes, the western world is quite a low key player. You mention prices: A price must be fair. We tend today and yesterday also to get everything for nothing. This can not work and will not work. Happy modelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drake122 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 It is fascinating how desperately you wish to take this into a anti-china argument. I will not be provoked however. Your response is not worth a reply in this aspect. I do not claim to be God of Flanker modelling at all. However, when you see a scheme offered by a kit made in 2017, and research the subject, the exact reg. no plane, whether in books or online, and you spot many differences and also you happen to find 'correction sets' for all of those differences in hobby shops, you start to get the feeling something is not right. And the further you look into it, expand into different kits by the same manufacturer, you discover a pattern. It is simply poor research on their part, even though the engineering side of it might be great. I don't rivet count and often just ignore smaller errors, regardless of manufacturer, but for the price tags I mentioned above, I expect a certain level of accuracy. Is that so bad to have this expectation? Especially when other manufacturers can deliver exactly that. If I paid 5 euro for a kit that is absolute rubbish I certainly wouldn't complain about missing wingtip fillets and the like. As a closing thought, I request that you refrain from personal attacks towards me by trying to manipulate this discussion with claims that I spread anti-china sentiments. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 I did some great Trumpeter / HobbyBoss kits (1/48 Su-9, J-8, J-10, Mirage IIIC, MiG-17) but usually their accuracy and detail is a bit questionable, ease of build usually quite good. They are the only ones who do a MiG-31M, so if that prototype is what you want, get it!. For the others I suggest to go the AMK route if price is acceptable... range is quite big at times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthViper Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 On 17/10/2021 at 12:43, drake122 said: It is fascinating how desperately you wish to take this into a anti-china argument. I will not be provoked however. Your response is not worth a reply in this aspect. I do not claim to be God of Flanker modelling at all. However, when you see a scheme offered by a kit made in 2017, and research the subject, the exact reg. no plane, whether in books or online, and you spot many differences and also you happen to find 'correction sets' for all of those differences in hobby shops, you start to get the feeling something is not right. And the further you look into it, expand into different kits by the same manufacturer, you discover a pattern. It is simply poor research on their part, even though the engineering side of it might be great. I don't rivet count and often just ignore smaller errors, regardless of manufacturer, but for the price tags I mentioned above, I expect a certain level of accuracy. Is that so bad to have this expectation? Especially when other manufacturers can deliver exactly that. If I paid 5 euro for a kit that is absolute rubbish I certainly wouldn't complain about missing wingtip fillets and the like. As a closing thought, I request that you refrain from personal attacks towards me by trying to manipulate this discussion with claims that I spread anti-china sentiments. Hi all In my opinion the problem with "Made in China" productions is the lack of sacred laws we see in democratic countries as are the "respect for the consumers" . That Respect does not came free from the American Industries for example, but Yes came from them because there are laws obliging all models manufacturers to sell "scale models" that really be scaled models of the real subject. Obviously no one will expect such law from a communist state where the people do not have rights about any thing. SouthViper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 (edited) 46 minutes ago, SouthViper said: Hi all In my opinion the problem with "Made in China" productions is the lack of sacred laws we see in democratic countries as are the "respect for the consumers" . That Respect does not came free from the American Industries for example, but Yes came from them because there are laws obliging all models manufacturers to sell "scale models" that really be scaled models of the real subject. Obviously no one will expect such law from a communist state where the people do not have rights about any thing. SouthViper Are there really such laws in the US? They have to be recent though as for sure no such law was in place in the good old Monogram days, otherwise they would have not issued inaccurate stuff like their F-16 and F-16XL, or the 1/48 F-111.. and is their 1/72 B-1 actually accurate? Of course since no aircraft kits seems to have been produced in the US in the last few years, it's hard for me to tell if things have changed. For sure there's no such law in Europe, otherwise we'd not have seen some totally messed up kits from the likes of Airfix, Revell and Italeri, with the many Czech companies also not immune.. I'expect Japan to have no such law either, otherwise Fujimi could have not sold their F-15E as an 1/72 kit, something that it is not. Ok, I realize I've been a little sarcastic and apologise for this, the reality though is that western companies simply put a certain effort toward accuracy if they feel that their customers will appreciate this, some put more effort and some don't. Even those companies that try to offer accurate kits then make mistakes, sometime the market will notice and sometime will not. China is no different, for a Trumpeter that doesn't always seem to care about accuracy there are other companies that put a lot of effort. In the end it's not the legal system that pushes the manufacturers to do better, it' modellers that do it! Edited January 3, 2022 by Giorgio N 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthViper Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 6 minutes ago, Giorgio N said: Are there really such laws in the US? They have to be recent though as for sure no such law was in place in the good old Monogram days, otherwise they would have not issued inaccurate stuff like their F-16 and F-16XL, or the 1/48 F-111.. and is their 1/72 B-1 actually accurate? Of course since no aircraft kits seems to have been produced in the US in the last few years, it's hard for me to tell if things have changed. For sure there's no such law in Europe, otherwise we'd not have seen some totally messed up kits from the likes of Airfix, Revell and Italeri, with the many Czech companies also not immune.. I'expect Japan to have no such law either, otherwise Fujimi could have not sold their F-15E as an 1/72 kit, something that it is not. Ok, I realize I've been a little sarcastic and apologise for this, the reality though is that western companies simply put a certain effort toward accuracy if they feel that their customers will appreciate this, some put more effort and some don't. Even those companies that try to offer accurate kits then make mistakes, sometime the market will notice and sometime will not. China is no different, for a Trumpeter that doesn't always seem to care about accuracy there are other companies that put a lot of effort. In the end it's not the legal system that pushes the manufacturers to do better, it' modellers that do it! Hi, Take the US Constitution and get a read. The respect from the producer to the buyer is Trade Mark. No need for long and unsefull laws. With all due respect for your opinion you can not compare a 2020 kit tecnology (with Internet search, Corell, Computers) versus a kit from the 70's, even more if considering military secrecy aspects . SouthViper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 40 minutes ago, SouthViper said: Hi, Take the US Constitution and get a read. The respect from the producer to the buyer is Trade Mark. No need for long and unsefull laws. With all due respect for your opinion you can not compare a 2020 kit tecnology (with Internet search, Corell, Computers) versus a kit from the 70's, even more if considering military secrecy aspects . SouthViper Looks like the US Constitution is very rarely read by those who open companies in the US then, considering the huge number of legal battles against manufacturers of any kind of goods, battles that show how often manufacturers don't really care much about the quality of whatever they are selling. Regarding a comparison between older and more recent kits, sorry to disagree but my comments still stand for at least a couple of reasons: 1) The inaccuracies of certain Monogram kits were all well known at the time of their issues, as illustrated for example by the reviews in the old D&S series, books that were published around the same time. If enthusiasts could point out errors back then, the same errors could have been found in the same way by the kit designers. 2) It doesn't matter when a kit is designed, if it is on sale today it has to satisfy today's requirements. If there's some kind of "contract", legal or moral, tying the manufacturer to the customer, this should be satisfied by the product at the moment such contract is in place, regardless of when the product was first introduced. The Monogram F-16 may have been a product from the '70s but it was still in Revell US catalogue in 2016 for sure since I remember seeing this on the shelves. Even today, Revell USA LLC, that is a US registered company, have in their catalogue the old Revell Spitfire Mk.II, that is not considered an accurate kit. This means that Revell LLC considers this kit perfectly fit for the needs of their customers in 2022 even with its accuracy issues... so much for reading the Constitution ! Really, it's all down to good old capitalism: supply and demand, I make a product and as long as the product will pass whatever regulation is in place it will go onto the market. If the potential buyers like it, it will sell, if not I'll have to rethink my strategy. Trumpeter make inaccurate models ? There's a large number of modellers that do not care about this and will buy their products anyway, hence they're in business even with all their accuracy issues. As a modeller who is interested in accuracy I find many of their kits frustrating but really considering how often I read here comments against being so worried about "a few mm here and there" or against "rivet counting" I'd say that Trumpeter are following a perfectly legitimate path, meeting the demands of an important part of the market 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg B Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 Gents, leave the political commentary off this website or leave the website. The choice is simple, the no politics on this website is not for negotiation and it will be enforced. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthViper Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 9 hours ago, Greg B said: Gents, leave the political commentary off this website or leave the website. The choice is simple, the no politics on this website is not for negotiation and it will be enforced. Hi Greg B, Sorry, No politics intended in my comments . Just speak about Laws protecting the American customers. Kind regards SouthViper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 13 minutes ago, SouthViper said: Hi Greg B, Sorry, No politics intended in my comments . Just speak about Laws protecting the American customers. Kind regards SouthViper Well you were the one who dug up an old thread to comment on "made In China" and the sacred laws of the US, so lets stop it there pls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundowner14 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 Thank you admins. I was gobsmacked at how this was turned into a political issue for no reason at all, especially as the exam question was simple; AMK or Hobbyboss. For me; AMK, all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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