AIRFIX 2022 rumours/thoughts/chat thread...

[Adam Poultney]

2 minutes ago, Denford said:

I appreciate, from your previous postings that you'd like to see a Manchester,

I don't deny it, I would love a Manchester!

3 minutes ago, Denford said:

but this doesn't make it, commercially, a better choice than the many, many other possible (re)toolings: Halifax, Lincoln, Catalina, Privateer to name but a few.

And what happens if Airfix only tool the midst popular subjects? They'll dry up eventually. 

 

I don't think a Lincoln would do better than a Manchester commercially at all. Yes, it had more operators, and yes more were built in more variants, but actually it's got a few things going against it compared to the Manchester:

1. Size, the thing is huge. It's a bigger Lancaster, virtually the same size as a Shackleton

2. Following on from size, price. It will probably be at a £45-50 price point and while I wouldn't mind paying that for a good quality 1/72 Lincoln, I'm sure there are a lot who would be put off. A Manchester would probably be at the £30 price point similar to the Wellington or Whitley

3. It missed WW2 and WW2 stuff sells. Ok it flew in WW2, but so did the DH Vampire and I don't think anyone really considers that a WW2 plane

 

Halifax is indeed a better idea than the Manchester, it desperately needs a good 1/72 modern kit (the Revell one is flawed... apparently... anyway, good luck finding one if you want to build it). Flagship kit in an upcoming year I hope.

 

11 minutes ago, Denford said:

I'm not sure of availability of data and before you again say 'What about the Whitley?' I suspect that it had, like the Do17, 'passed the point of now return' when Airfix made their decision on this.

I really don't understand Airfix's insistence on reliable data (i.e. there is one to LiDAR scan) given that even with LiDAR, they make a lot of mistakes (see my thread on the new tool Vulcan). 

In the context of your understanding that Airfix target only the mass market it makes even less sense. As long as it's close enough, will the average kit builder care if the fins of the Whitley are ever so slightly wrong? No. And pretty much any modeller who cares about that can correct it either by modifying the kit or looking towards the aftermarket scene. 

If Airfix are happy to put out the Vulcan, a £60 flagship kit, with missing windscreen wipers, incorrect panel lines and prominent missing details from the landing gear and crew door, I don't think that available data may be as big of a concern as you imagine. 

[Wimpy1997]

Over 200 Manchesters were produced before production ceased. That’s more than many well known aircraft types, Westland whirlwind, Me 323 etc. Eight squadrons were equipped with them and one pilot even won a VC flying the type. 
 

It’s an absolute travesty that no mainstream model manufacturer has produced a version. 
 

[Denford]

2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Two possible reasons for that: one is that the Manchester was considered secret and so omitted, or that it had been withdrawn so was not needed.  Seeing the German types included, perhaps the latter?  However, it is the most significant, in terms of numbers, British WW2 combat type yet to see a 1/72 injected model.  Airfix did at least offer someone else's Fulmar, if only briefly.

According to Wikepedia 580 Bothas were produced vs 202 Manchesters.

But all this rather misses the point: Airfix are in the business of making money, which they do by selling kits to the general public.  Most of them probably couldn't tell a Hurricane from a Spitfire, and some of the buyers won't even build them but gift them.

Stating what we already know, they are for volume sales, leaving 'specials' to the short run.  That's their business and we shouldn't tell them how to run it.

But we've been here several times before, with BM followers justifying their wants as 'Iconic', anniversary, 'no line up complete without it', or the individual who thought that after an exhilarating ride in a 2 seat Spitfire (I'm sure it was) it would result in worldwide sales.

[Adam Poultney]

9 minutes ago, Denford said:

Most of them probably couldn't tell a Hurricane from a Spitfire, and some of the buyers won't even build them but gift them.

Then why do they need to have reliable data if this is their main market? This kind of customer isn't going to care if the Do17 or Manchester or whatever they just bought has the shape of a landing gear door slightly wrong but just about right

[Graham Boak]

Denford, I wouldn't disagree except that the Bothas only equipped one squadron, briefly, whereas the Manchester had a much more significant service record.  However, it must also be said that by your reckoning there'd be no Airfix Whitley or Beaufort, not to mention other recent kits from their current incarnation.  Visibility to the wider market clearly isn't, and on consideration cannot be, the only or even dominant factor involved.  To turn the argument around, who knows a Vampire Mk.3?  About as many who know a Manchester, I suspect.

 

Adam, don't let all the waffle about needing reliable data mislead you.  It is certainly good to hear, and indeed recent releases have shown a commendable attention to such.  However, this has not stopped them from failing to appreciate that the one they are studying may not be properly representative of what they are featuring on the box.  Not, I should add, that other manufacturers are necessarily stellar in this respect.

 

 

[IanC]

I think we can all agree that Airfix is a business and needs to make money. But I would suggest that it also needs to expand its range to maintain profitability. Yes, the bread and butter Spitfires, Lancs and 109s  will always be in the catalogue, and rightly so, but innovation and freshness in their offer is important too. 

 

It's a question of balance, but offering non-mainstream subjects makes economic sense. It creates interest and excitement in the brand for both the hardcore enthusiasts and collectors, as well as the casual buyer. That well-known junior modeller, 'Little Johnny', may be more discerning than you think, and choose a Blackburn Botha next because it's a bit different and he's done enough Spitfires and Mustangs. 

 

Maintaining an extensive and interesting range of products, in this case model kits, and ensuring you avoid too many duds, is key. As far as I can see, that's exactly what Airfix are doing.

 

 

[Denford]

28 minutes ago, Adam Poultney said:

Then why do they need to have reliable data if this is their main market? This kind of customer isn't going to care if the Do17 or Manchester or whatever they just bought has the shape of a landing gear door slightly wrong but just about right

You'd have to ask Airfix that: such a decision cannot have been taken lightly.

[Denford]

STOP PRESS

602 Albermarles were built surpassing the Botha (580) by a short head!

This I think has been tooled (Valom?) so not mainstream.

[TEXANTOMCAT]

41 minutes ago, Denford said:

or the individual who thought that after an exhilarating ride in a 2 seat Spitfire (I'm sure it was) it would result in worldwide sales.

That was, and remains, me - though sadly I've never had a flight in a twintub. 

 

The joyous part of this BM thread (that I started) is that people can suggest what they'd like or wish for free from sneers or derision. Clearly they want to make product which sells - clearly they are unafraid of kitting outside the 'mainstream' cf Whitley, Walrus, Defiant, etc as other manufacturers have. For example, the Eduard Bumblebee was a huge success or leastways more than anticipated (I'm told!) and it doesn't get more leftfield than an ag plane. 

 

If someone wants a Manchester, good on em- their opinion is perfectly valid. Whether Airfix agree is a matter for them and them alone obviously. A person's view on a Manc is no less valid than yours on a Privateer., even if YOU think their choice or option is daft.

 

I'm aware of two new tools - one in 1/72 is fairly predictable, the one in 1/48 is not (in MY opinion!) in three weeks time the public will vote with their pre-order wallets.

 

In the meantime to those who've enjoyed this thread a very Merry Christmas and I hope Airfix deliver your choice in a shiny red box next year

 

TT

 

 

 

 

[Adam Poultney]

2 minutes ago, TEXANTOMCAT said:

I'm aware of two new tools - one in 1/72 is fairly predictable, the one in 1/48 is not (in MY opinion!) in three weeks time the public will vote with their pre-order wallets.

Am I understating this right that you know two of Airfix's new tool kits? Must be fun watching this thread in that case! Has anyone come close?

 

(I'm saying Anson for the 1/48 kit)

[TEXANTOMCAT]

I do but can neither deny nor confirm the above  (it wouldn’t be fair mate - it’s like knowing how a magician does his trick🙂) further I actually wish I didn’t so I could speculate ‘clean’ but the 1:48 is worth waiting for!  I’m sure there are loads of forumites ‘in the trade’ who know too and they’re keeping mum🙂👍

[Denford]

Can't speak for 1/48 - not my scale - but I'm glad for those who are, especially if it's not readily predictable.

For my part, logic, rumour or whatever, in 1/72 an Allison Mustang and Boston\Havoc.  Oh yes: I've never been right yet!

[Paul Thompson]

23 minutes ago, Denford said:

STOP PRESS

602 Albermarles were built surpassing the Botha (580) by a short head!

This I think has been tooled (Valom?) so not mainstream.

Valom had a couple of boxings, and it was early in their history, so built into a nice model but you really had to want to go there. There was also a Contrail vac, but not one of their better kits.

 

As for Manchesters, also Contrail (both as a conversion and a standalone kit) and a resin by Planet Models,

 

FWIW. Obviously the existebce of none of those would take away from any sales Airfix might get, except in rare and grumpy old cases like me where I've already done the graft and don't really have the space for a new one.

 

Paul.

[RichG]

@TEXANTOMCAT

 

Thanks TT!

 

Both for starting this thread (I know some hate these but its just a bit of fun and I absolutely love 'em - joyous? Yeah! absolutely! ) and secondly for keeping shtum until the official Airfix announcement...  "The excitement is building..."  and not having it spoilt by someone in the know. We know you know as it were and for which there's kudos  - no kudos for those spilling the beans early! At least we know there are at least 2 new kits and probably aircraft.

 

 I still think that we are due a Jag (GR not E-Type... although may get one of each) and according to my theory of Airfix release patterns that would have to be the 1/72... fairly predictable...? Not sure. Could still be in with a shout.  But an "unpredictable"/left-field arrival in 1/48..🤔? Well no idea!

 

As for Airfix's market... I am not convinced its the casual buyer they focus on for everything they make. I think they also focus strongly on the enthusiast modeller to a large extent and who is reasonably discerning  with regard to subject matter and quality. I suggest they also target those of a "certain age"... Bit like Hornby with railways - sure they sell "train sets", but they also sell highly accurate and ever increasingly realistic locomotives and rolling stock. Of course they are about making money but the slightly more nuanced increasing of their market share amonst those with disposable income. Businesses need money to survive. To make money, businesses need customers. Ideally, these customers are happy, tell their friends about it, and keep coming back. While a business might survive with single-purchase customers, only businesses with a focus on customer satisfaction will thrive. Customer satisfaction is the difference between surviving and thriving.

 

Just my thoughts... toss them aside at your pleasure.

 

Merry Christmas!

 

Rich

    

BTW my late father trained on the Blackburn Botha. Hated it; reckoned it was a death trap. He went on to do most of his operational tours in the Med in various marks of Martin Baltimore of which 1,575 were built... just sayin...mmm now about that new 1/48 kit...🤔

Edited December 20, 2021 by RichG

[Rabbit Leader]

1 hour ago, RichG said:

I am not convinced its the casual buyer they focus on for everything they make

 

So am I, why target one part of the segment when you can also target the whole lot with suitably tailored products?

 

It has often been suggested that ‘causal buyers’ make up the vast amount of Airfix / Hornby sales, however why spend all that money and time on LiDAR and CAD development unless you are striving to also target nit pickers like us who demand all things accurate? I think the old 80/20 rule might exist here where 20% of their market (us) might also possibly purchase 80% of their stock (OK - its probably less than that, but then the rule sounds silly!). 

 

Cheers and really looking forward to the new announcements when they happen.. Dave 

[Graham Boak]

One argument for deep research is because they wish to be considered as high quality, and have to compete with other companies who are also claiming this.  Whatever the exact spit in the market, the bias has moved towards those whom do care about accuracy.  Should the hobby gain mass enthusiasm again, then the balance will move the other way and the standard of the kits will fall.   

[keefr22]

4 hours ago, RichG said:

But an "unpredictable"/left-field arrival in 1/48..

 

Blackburn Blackburn, obviously....!!

 

TBH, what I'd really like from Airfix is some quality control. I'm fed up with feeling like every time I open a new red box it's like opening a lucky dip. Are there short shots, moulding flaws in the transparencies, missing parts (or even complete sprues!) etc etc. And some better quality plastic wouldn't go amiss either... 

 

Keith

[Circloy]

6 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Should the hobby gain mass enthusiasm again, then the balance will move the other way and the standard of the kits will fall. 

I tend to disagree on two points:

The market, even an expanding one, wouldn't accept falling standards.

With a larger market design & development costs per unit would fall making it easier to justify using high end technology to maintain, or improve quality.

[Mr T]

We will be put out of our agony of waiting to to see what Airfix are doing at 4pm (GMT) on 10th January according to todays Advent calendar. 

[IanC]

9 hours ago, keefr22 said:

 

Blackburn Blackburn, obviously....!!

 

TBH, what I'd really like from Airfix is some quality control. I'm fed up with feeling like every time I open a new red box it's like opening a lucky dip. Are there short shots, moulding flaws in the transparencies, missing parts (or even complete sprues!) etc etc. And some better quality plastic wouldn't go amiss either... 

 

Keith

 

Yes, an announcement that they've found a way to crack these problems would be more welcome to me than another new kit. Even a Blackburn Blackburn. 

[Wez]

It's obvious that Airfix target the casual market which is why they've produced so many Spitfires, it's also obvious they cater for the enthusiast because they make the effort to get the shape right and they've given us different marks of Spitfire (e.g. I/II, Va, Vc, IX, XIX in 1/72nd and I, Vb, XII and XIX in 1/48th).

 

OK, they get some things wrong but their use of LIDAR and carrying out physical surveys of aircraft show their intention is earnest.

 

I'd also say their quality is generally improving, the surface detail on the recent 1/48th Vampire is exquisite (and at least they don't go covering the thing in divots), the casual buyer may not appreciate this but I do.

[Graham Boak]

5 hours ago, Circloy said:

I tend to disagree on two points:

The market, even an expanding one, wouldn't accept falling standards.

With a larger market design & development costs per unit would fall making it easier to justify using high end technology to maintain, or improve quality.

If you live in a world where the mass market calls for higher standards than specialist markets, it is not the same world I live on.  Just compare the food in different supermarkets.  Yes, this is driven by comparative affluence.  There's no difference in the modelling world.

 

Remember that the bottom line is profit.  In the current world, the specialist market is a large enough part to drive standards upwards.  In an expanded market, it would be small enough a proportion to be overruled in favour of cost-cutting and lower standards, and hence lower prices to maintain larger sales.  Even within the specialist market, for which we can take Britmodeller as a sample, there are different views expressed on the need for quality, and indeed just what is meant by the word.  This goes beyond the nostalgic "I made this kit when I was a kid and therefore there's nothing wrong with it" cabal.  (For whom I retain a certain sentimental affinity, at times...)

 

Linked to this is the matter of ever more complicated kits, in a search for ever-finer detail (disregarding the accuracy and fit sides of the matter).  This drives up costs, and in making the models more difficult discourages beginners.  (Let alone us elderly guys with fading eyesight and arthritic fingers - and if you think this doesn't mean you too, look ahead to your future.)  If we really want to see an enlarged market, of even maintain one the current size, perhaps we need to reconsider the complexity = quality assumption.  Fir which, Airfix's recent approach with their two Spitfire Mk.Vc should be applauded, and it is rather a shame that Hobbyboss have apparently abandoned their efforts in this direction.

 

[trickydicky210]

I see that Corgi have released a die cast model of the QEC, whilst not directly related to an Airfix kit, it must bode well for one to be in the pipeline?

[Supersonic26]

I'd love a rerelease of the excellent 1/48 Tomahawk with some interesting marking options (why not go the Eduard way and offer five or six in one boxing?).

 

As far as new stuff is concerned, something British from WW2 seems a sure bet. I'd be very happy with anything Blackburn, really - Skua, Roc, Botha, Firebrand...

 

For the more casual market, I feel like the P-47 could use a mainstream release in 1/72 as well as 1/48, both razorback and bubbletop. Famous airplane, many boxing options, some gorgeous Far East RAF schemes available too.

[TEXANTOMCAT]

I don’t know whether the kits they have sent out to The Works or put in Airfix mystery boxes are an indication of stuff that didn’t sell? Viz

 

Wellington and Whitley GR boxing’s, P-40, Shack AEW, B-17G, Dakota, Kate, Beaufighter etc- that they were discounted would seem to suggest that they didn’t sell well... whether that means a rest from the range for a few years before being reissued in a new boxing or whether they’re quietly retired I guess only time will tell! 
 

TT