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Alpine Front Fighters in 1/72: advice needed


2996 Victor
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3 minutes ago, John Masters said:

I've built the HR Models Hanriot HD-1 and was very pleased.  Don't forget the Caudron G.II.  It was used by the Italians for it's ability to climb in the alpine areas.  Chorosky might have one of those too.

I don't know offhand what the differences are with the G.III, but Choroszy do a whole family of those, very nice and highly detailed but the skid assembly on the one I built was mangled beyond use and needed replacing from scratch - same on the Italian version I built. There used to be versions also available in vac plastic from Blue Rider and Roseplane. I built the latter, which is a nice kit - comes in two versions, one with decals, the other with some vac parts duplicated in resin, both versions with some white metal accesories - extruded material is supplied for the booms but of round section, so should be replaced by square section rod. I've done that with both the Roseplane and Choroszy kits, and it's not as hard as you may think. I think the Blue Rider kit may have PE booms, not sure. Wouldn't be suprised if the G.III was also used on the front.

 

Oh, BTW, the Eastern Express Berg is a repop of the Toko kit - the printed hex decals in that one were, um, err, not the best. I don't know if the repop is better in that respect.

 

Paul.

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I haven’t built it yet,  but I have a Choroszy Berg D.I lying around. I can take a peek if there’s anything you want to know about it.

 

Otherwise I have Special Hobby’ss Lloyd C.V, which is nicely detailed and will certainly make a nice model.

 

 

I have built both HR Model’s and Choroszy’s Phönix C.1. Both required relatively extensive surgery to get in the shape of the versions I wanted to built, but are otherwise nice* and easily buildable kits.

 

* as ”nice” as resin can be that is - I don’t particularly fancy the material

Edited by Torbjorn
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Hi Mark,

              I also have a soft spot for the Italian Front and Austro Hungarian aviation. According to my stash sheet I have 25 related kits. As usual the fighters predominate with excursions into vac-form territory necessary to search out reconnaissance types. The kits are all 1/72 and so far are

 

Roden : Albatros DII.53

              Albatros DIII.253

              Albatros DIII.153

 

Revell : Albatros DIII.53 conversion

             Fokker DVII MAG conversion

 

Eastern Express : Hansa Brandenburg DI Starstrutter

                              Aviatik DI

                              Aviatik DI side radiator conversion

                              Aviatik DI To convert to late war 338

 

MAC : Phoenix DII

 

Airframe : Phoenix DI vac form

 

Joystick : Aviatik BII vac form

                 Lloyd CII, conv to CIII

                 Phoenix W18 flying boat fighter

 

Special Hobby : Lloyd CV

 

Classic Plane : Aviatik DI, converted to CI two seat recce

                         Hansa Brandenburg CC flying boat fighter

 

Vac Wings : Lohner LI flying boat

 

Airfix kit bash : Oeffag CII

 

Most of these have been built. I'm fairly easy to please and most went together ok. The exceptions are the HB DI which I think needed one of the struts extended. The Classic Plane Aviatik DI is pretty awful which is why I cut it up and converted it. Unbuilt I have the HR Phoenix CI which looks nice in the box. From Sierrascale USA vac forms I have the Hansa Brandenburg CI.169, the Ufag CI and the Phoenix CI. Last an HB CI.429, the late war version from a company called The Eagles Talon Inc from California. The American kits will be hard to find I guess. I got mine from a bulk buy of vac forms on e Bay which luckily no one seemed to want.

 

As for the Italians I have yet to start on the army machines. My builds are limited to the Pegasus Macchi M5 single seat flying boat fighter that turns up from time to time on second hand sites and a scratch built Macchi L3 flying boat recce type. This series was initially based on a reversed engineered Lohner L. I used the Vac Wings as the template. Hope this helps.

 

Regards, Steve

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20 hours ago, Torbjorn said:

I haven’t built it yet,  but I have a Choroszy Berg D.I lying around. I can take a peek if there’s anything you want to know about it.

 

Otherwise I have Special Hobby’ss Lloyd C.V, which is nicely detailed and will certainly make a nice model.

 

 

I have built both HR Model’s and Choroszy’s Phönix C.1. Both required relatively extensive surgery to get in the shape of the versions I wanted to built, but are otherwise nice* and easily buildable kits.

 

* as ”nice” as resin can be that is - I don’t particularly fancy the material

Hi Torbjorn,

 

I'll take you up on that in due course! The Berg is, IMHO, the archetypal Austro-Hungarian fighter!

 

@Paul Thompson mentioned hexagon camouflage decals - I used to have some 1/48th Americal/Gryphon A-H hexagon decals and I struggled to accept the colours used. I know the Knoller in the Prague museum had original camouflage, but looking at photos it looks like its been refurbished. I think the colours are particularly hard to call.....but, on the other hand its hard for anyone to categorically say what's right and what's wrong.

 

Cheers,

Mark

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1 hour ago, stevehed said:

Hi Mark,

              I also have a soft spot for the Italian Front and Austro Hungarian aviation. According to my stash sheet I have 25 related kits. As usual the fighters predominate with excursions into vac-form territory necessary to search out reconnaissance types. The kits are all 1/72 and so far are

 

Roden : Albatros DII.53

              Albatros DIII.253

              Albatros DIII.153

 

Revell : Albatros DIII.53 conversion

             Fokker DVII MAG conversion

 

Eastern Express : Hansa Brandenburg DI Starstrutter

                              Aviatik DI

                              Aviatik DI side radiator conversion

                              Aviatik DI To convert to late war 338

 

MAC : Phoenix DII

 

Airframe : Phoenix DI vac form

 

Joystick : Aviatik BII vac form

                 Lloyd CII, conv to CIII

                 Phoenix W18 flying boat fighter

 

Special Hobby : Lloyd CV

 

Classic Plane : Aviatik DI, converted to CI two seat recce

                         Hansa Brandenburg CC flying boat fighter

 

Vac Wings : Lohner LI flying boat

 

Airfix kit bash : Oeffag CII

 

Most of these have been built. I'm fairly easy to please and most went together ok. The exceptions are the HB DI which I think needed one of the struts extended. The Classic Plane Aviatik DI is pretty awful which is why I cut it up and converted it. Unbuilt I have the HR Phoenix CI which looks nice in the box. From Sierrascale USA vac forms I have the Hansa Brandenburg CI.169, the Ufag CI and the Phoenix CI. Last an HB CI.429, the late war version from a company called The Eagles Talon Inc from California. The American kits will be hard to find I guess. I got mine from a bulk buy of vac forms on e Bay which luckily no one seemed to want.

 

As for the Italians I have yet to start on the army machines. My builds are limited to the Pegasus Macchi M5 single seat flying boat fighter that turns up from time to time on second hand sites and a scratch built Macchi L3 flying boat recce type. This series was initially based on a reversed engineered Lohner L. I used the Vac Wings as the template. Hope this helps.

 

Regards, Steve

Hi Steve,

 

many, many thanks for this, that's incredibly helpful!

 

For Austria-Hungary, I've got the MAC Phonix D.I and D.II, and the Choroszy Phonix D.III. I'm looking at the Roden Albatri as there are so many great schemes. @Torbjorn has mentioned the Choroszy Bergs which is great but I'm holding off ordering until I decide on a specific scheme (or schemes!) as the nose/radiator varied so much. The Choroszy Phonix and UFAG C-Types are on my acquisition list: if the HR Models injection kits are still available they'll be on my list, too.

 

For Italy and the Allies, I've got an Eduard SPAD S.XIII and a Sopwith Camel on their way. I would really like to get hold of the HR Models Hanriot HD.1 (in the multiple as I'd like to do one of Willy Coppens' aeroplanes - the blue one, of course - and I've come across profiles (never trust a profile without a photograph!) of an HD captured by and sporting A-H markings. I think an Ansaldo SVA5 needs to be on the to-do list as well, if there's one available, of course.

 

Thanks again, Steve!

 

Cheers,

Mark

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4 minutes ago, 2996 Victor said:

Hi all,

 

just wondering if there were any views on the 1/72 scale AZ Models and Fly Ansaldo SVA.5 kits? 

 

Cheers,

Mark

 

Ehrm, I got one of the Fly kits. I started on it but only painted the resin cockpit before getting side-trackef. It’s a very nice kit based on the sprues but can’t comment on the fit yet. The Lion of St Mark decal is quite nicely resolved for the scale.

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44 minutes ago, Torbjorn said:

 

Ehrm, I got one of the Fly kits. I started on it but only painted the resin cockpit before getting side-trackef. It’s a very nice kit based on the sprues but can’t comment on the fit yet. The Lion of St Mark decal is quite nicely resolved for the scale.

Many thanks, that's great to know! I think I'll take a punt a get one.

 

Thanks again and best regards,

Mark

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On 10/23/2021 at 8:03 PM, 2996 Victor said:

I meant to add, Steve, that I'm tempted by the Eduard Fokker D.VII(MAG) and finish it as a what-if in Austrian markings.

 

Cheers,

Mark

I forgot about the Eduard DVII even though I recently got one. Mine is the German OAW version but there are MAG radiator parts and Schwarlose mgs with long muzzle tubes on the sprues. I used the latter when kit bashing a Fokker DVI which received Red Hungarian stars to go with the MAG Revell DVII.

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One of the best sources for Austro Hungarian aircraft models in 1/48 and 1/72, back in the nineties, was Sierra Scale Models, who did an amazing range of excellent vacform kits with white metal engines etc.

Run by a chap called Bob Norgren, Sierra models offered a huge range of Phonix, UFAG, Lloyd, Hansa Brandenburg, Berg etc types - scouts, bombers and seaplanes. He also did things like a big Grigorovitch flying boat and lots of other unusual types.

I built a lot of the 1/48 kits and used to buy direct from Bob in the States. He moved to a different location and sold off all his remaining kits, although I heard maybe 3 years ago that he still had the vacform machine and would run-off the styrene parts if anybody contacted him. No idea how to get in touch I'm afraid. I only build 1/32 these days so I sold off all my 1/48 Sierras years ago.

If you can build vacforms - which are much easier than people sometimes think - it'd be worth doing a search on ebay - you never know what turns up!

Hope that helps

Sandy

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  • 3 weeks later...

The MAC Phonix is a Good kit.. I have it in the Stash, as is the Toko Hansa Brandenburg "Spider" - altho the cruciform struts are a Bear - and I have yet to attach the Upper Wing because of this....

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10 minutes ago, S. Uehlinger said:

The MAC Phonix is a Good kit.. I have it in the Stash, as is the Toko Hansa Brandenburg "Spider" - altho the cruciform struts are a Bear - and I have yet to attach the Upper Wing because of this....

That's great news, thank you! I ended up ordering a couple of the MAC Phonixes, which I'm looking forward to doing. Finding details of the cockpit is a bit difficult, though. I read somewhere that the interiors were painted white, though I haven't found any corroboration.

 

I nearly bought a Took Star-strutter on eBay recently, but missed it. Have to look for another!

 

Thanks again and best regards,

Mark

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https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/airfixtributeforum/viewtopic.php?p=796368#p796368

 

For anyone interested in the Starstrutter these builds may help to avoid some of the pitfalls. Unfortunately the demise of Picturetrail has caused the loss of some photos but I think there are enough combined with the text to get the idea. BTW, I think the Eastern Express issue will have better transfers than a Toko.

 

HTH, Steve

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  • 2 months later...
On 10/12/2021 at 11:18 AM, 2996 Victor said:

I'm modelling in 1/72 scale and I'm primarily interested in the Austro-Hungarian Luftfahrtruppe and KuK Kreigsmarine, so I'd like to ask the Oracles here whose kits they'd recommend. I don't mind fettling and a bit of scratch-building, I'm looking for overall accuracy of shape and dimensions.

 

Thanks in advance,

Mark

 

 

Hi!

Looks I've missed this interesting thread when it was active, but Austro-Hungarian and Italian WWI aviation are my mania too!

Mark, do you still gather informations? Or have you bought some kits already?

I can provide some additional informations here if these are still needed. For example I have several Choroszy resin Bergs variants and even Czech RVHP resin Aviatik (Berg) 30.24 Triplane - like this one:

https://www.internetmodeler.com/2002/november/aviation/Aviatik.htm

 

Also some Choroszy Austrian flying boats and Ardpol (ecellent Polish resin company, now defunct) Italian two-seaters.

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On 20/01/2022 at 22:45, GrzeM said:

Hi!

Looks I've missed this interesting thread when it was active, but Austro-Hungarian and Italian WWI aviation are my mania too!

Mark, do you still gather informations? Or have you bought some kits already?

I can provide some additional informations here if these are still needed. For example I have several Choroszy resin Bergs variants and even Czech RVHP resin Aviatik (Berg) 30.24 Triplane - like this one:

https://www.internetmodeler.com/2002/november/aviation/Aviatik.htm

 

Also some Choroszy Austrian flying boats and Ardpol (ecellent Polish resin company, now defunct) Italian two-seaters.

Hi and apologies for not having replied sooner. I've been concentrating on models on rails recently and things with wings have been taking a back seat!

 

However, I have collected some kits suited to the Alpine Front: several each of MAC's Phonix D.I and D.II, Roden's Albatros D.III (OEF) and Sopwith Camel. I've also got a couple of MAC's SPAD S.VII (DUX) kits which I'm hoping will be okay for Italian S.VIIs if I leave off the skis :D and an Eduard S.XIII. I'd like to get a couple more of those.....

 

I did pick up a Choroszy Phonix D.III which looks rather nice. I've been looking at their Berg kits and I'd be very interested to know what they're like in terms of accuracy and shape of parts.

 

Cheers,

Mark

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Re: the 72nd Phonix kits, whether MAC or Peasus, the engines do not correctly represent a Hiero.  Even the Aeroclub engine in the Pegasus kit just looks like any inline 6 engine used by the Central Powers.  The Hiero had a prominent crank-driven mechanical cam and water pump drive from the block between cylinders three and four to the overhead cam.  It is a glaring omission.  For the MAC, I cut off the rear three and stuck in a simple post.  I don't know what to do about the Pegasus, which has remained unbuilt for 25 years....

 

Cheers!

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10 hours ago, expositor said:

Re: the 72nd Phonix kits, whether MAC or Peasus, the engines do not correctly represent a Hiero.  Even the Aeroclub engine in the Pegasus kit just looks like any inline 6 engine used by the Central Powers.  The Hiero had a prominent crank-driven mechanical cam and water pump drive from the block between cylinders three and four to the overhead cam.  It is a glaring omission.  For the MAC, I cut off the rear three and stuck in a simple post.  I don't know what to do about the Pegasus, which has remained unbuilt for 25 years....

 

Cheers!

Thanks for the heads-up - such a pity that the pattern-maker didn't put a bit more thought into that area when it is so distinctive. It'd be nice if someone like Small Stuff did a replacement. However, forewarned is fore-armed!

 

Cheers,

Mark

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