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195 Squadron Lancaster - Markings


Andy G

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I'm currently building a 1:72 Lancaster to represent NG186 in which an old boy from the school I went to was the flight engineer on the night it was shot down - 7/8th March 1945.  The plane flew as A4-O with 195 Squadron out of RAF Wratting Common.  There's a website with quite a bit of history of RAF Wratting common including some useful photos, unfortunately none of A4-O.

What can be seen in the photos is that the application of the markings for 195 Squadron aircraft was unusual as can be seen in this photo

rp-009-001b-webnormal

 

http://www.wcnhistory.org.uk/imagery/rp-009-001b-webnormal.jpg

Does anybody have any idea about the font and dimensions, particularly of the '4'.  I'm hoping to make a first go at using a Silhouette cutter to make masks for the markings.

The aircraft also all seem to have had identification markings at the front of the fuselage as on Willie the Conk in this photo

rp-001-010-webnormal

 

http://www.wcnhistory.org.uk/imagery/rp-001-010-webnormal.jpg

Again, does anybody know the font and size.  Not all of the aircraft had the letter underlined.

 

What happened to the crew makes unsavoury reading and the various forums that reference the happenings of that night are not consistent but it is safe to say that three or four of the crew, including Alan Robinson the flight engineer, met their end at the hands of the SS rather than the Luftwaffe.

http://ww2talk.com/index.php?threads/shot-down-lancaster-ng186.24529/

 

Cheers

Andy

Edited by Andy G
Changed links from https to http to get them working again. Photos are now linked to flickr as well.
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According to a past thread, Lancaster fuselage roundel diameter is 54 inches ;

 

Armed with that measurement, I took the photo and enlarged it so the roundel matches 54 inches width wise.   Results are (length by width):

- letter A   is 40 x 30 inches, with 6 inch brushstroke

- number 4 is 17.5 x 15.5 inches with 2.5 inch brush stroke

 

Font/typeface is irrelevant and will need to be hand drawn in vector format.   Any sans serif closed top 4 will do as a starting point. 

 

regards,

Jack

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22 hours ago, JackG said:

According to a past thread, Lancaster fuselage roundel diameter is 54 inches ;

 

Armed with that measurement, I took the photo and enlarged it so the roundel matches 54 inches width wise.   Results are (length by width):

- letter A   is 40 x 30 inches, with 6 inch brushstroke

- number 4 is 17.5 x 15.5 inches with 2.5 inch brush stroke

 

Font/typeface is irrelevant and will need to be hand drawn in vector format.   Any sans serif closed top 4 will do as a starting point. 

 

regards,

Jack

Hi Jack,

Many thanks for your efforts here.  I shall have a go at drawing up the markings based on your dimensions.

 

Cheers

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Hello Andy,

 

I took one additional set of measurements for the code letter D, which would be the location for your O?   Compared to the A, this one is narrower at 22 inches, and taller by about  1.5 to 2 inches.  There could be some perspective at play, or if the artist was knowledgeable about letters, he may have extended the top and bottom of the letter O slightly?

 

regards,

Jack

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I'll go sit in the corner, that's what I get for multi tasking while in front of the comp.  So it's either perspective or just sloppy mark 1 eyeball drawing the D taller than the 4?

 

regards,

Jack

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For some reason, I can't see the photos today. Something to do with a privacy issue.

 

3 hours ago, mackem01 said:

I don't  want to rain on the parade, but is that O not a D? I'm only seeing two bevelled corners. Sit me at the table in the corner if I'm wrong.

 

I was thinking the same thing yesterday, but thought I'd keep it to myself, as I've made a few mistakes lately,  posting replies to things like this.

 

 

 

Chris

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9 hours ago, dogsbody said:

For some reason, I can't see the photos today. Something to do with a privacy issue.

I was thinking the same thing yesterday, but thought I'd keep it to myself, as I've made a few mistakes lately,  posting replies to things like this.

Chris

13 hours ago, mackem01 said:

I don't  want to rain on the parade, but is that O not a D? I'm only seeing two bevelled corners. Sit me at the table in the corner if I'm wrong.

 

I think you are both correct - I too thought this was an 'D' as well and I still think it is (although I can no longer see the pictures). The OP @Andy G mentions that he can't find pics of 'O' and I think he's used this picture of 'D' to illustrate the marking practice and the unusual painting of 'A4'. 

 

HTH

 

SD

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Yes, I put up  link to a photo of A4-D as an illustration as I've not come across any photos of A4-O.  I've even had to guess that there was a good chance she was fitted with H2S - I don't wish to know if anybody knows that she wasn't 😉.

The Wratting Common website does seem to have disappeared unfortunately.

 

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The Wratting Common website is still unavailable, but I've managed to grab a copy of the main photo for this topic, see OP.  I can't get one of the front of the aircraft though.

Edited by Andy G
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The problem with the website seems to be certificates.  By default the links are https, i.e. require a certificate.  However, by trying http instead I've got onto the website. I've also pinched the two photos and added them to my flickr site so they can be embedded.  The OP has been updated to show things working again.

Additionally, I've found a close up of Wille the Conks nose showing the individual identification mark.

rp-012-003b-webnormal

 

http://www.wcnhistory.org.uk/imagery/rp-012-003b-webnormal.jpg

 

Cheers

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First attempt at drawing up the main codes.  Quite happy with the A and 4, but I'm not sure about the chamfers on the O.  The D in the photo is quite a bit narrower than the A, so I adjusted @JackG's figures accordingly.  There's quite a bit of rust been removed from my maths this morning!

 

Codes Screenshot 01

 

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Was reading on another forum that an underlined code letter meant there was a 2nd aircraft in the squadron that contained the same individual code letter.  If a third aircraft had the same letter, then the bar was placed above the letter.

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/underlined-code-letters-numbers.38224/

 

Also confusing is 115 Squadron also used the same A4 codes?

 

12%20-%20Avro-Lancaster_Page_15-960.jpg?

 

 

Another good front on view of the codes, albeit 115 Sqn.

https://aircrewremembered.com/atkin-samuel.html

115-squadron-lancaster-i-hk547-ko-f-crew

 

regards,

Jack

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Hi Jack,

The underscore meaning a second aircraft makes more sense.  If I remember correctly 195 was born out of C Wing of 115 Squadron, probably explaining the commonality of the squadron code.  195 also used JE at the same time as A4.

 

Cheers

Andy

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