Help me identify these british ammo boxes

[RivetCounter]

I'm currently working on a Valentine from NZ army. 
There are nice pictures in Jeffrey Plowman's book "Camouflage & Marking of the Valentines in New Zealand Service".
I like these heavily loaded tanks, but I can't recognize some of the boxes.

I think that number 1 is a wooden box for 0,303 ammo (Lee-Enfield).
Number 2 is an another british box, but for what kind of ammo?
And number 3 is, according to the book, an ammunition box converted to hold infantry-tank telephone. But it looks like box number two shortened to half its original length.

Can anyone tell me if I'm right?

 

Here are my types from the PanzerArt offer.

Number one

 

Number two (and three)

 

Regards

Marek/Mark

 

 

 

[andygif290368]

googling ww2 British/Commonwealth ammo cans, i would have stab at Can 3 being 40mm Bofors C216.

Edited October 10, 2021 by andygif290368

[Kingsman]

Box 1 is too large for 0.303" loose rounds.  I think they are BESA 7.92mm boxes, logical as Valentines mounted BESAs.  Each one contained 2 metal 250-rd ammo cans.  Resicast, Ultracast and Accurate Armour do these.

 

Box 2 - I believe - is a B167 box for 12 x 2pdr rounds.  Also logical as the Valentine mounted the 2pdr - although some NZ tanks had the 3" CS Howitzer.

 

Box 3 is more problematic.  It definitely isn't a Bofors ammo box.  I can't place it, I'm afraid.  I thought it might be for 2" internal or 4" external smoke bombs, depending which these tanks had.  But it seems not.  Apparently not hand grenades either.

[RivetCounter]

@Das Abteilung 

You were absolutely right with those BESA boxes. I found one at this address https://www.gunboards.com/threads/british-7-92-ap-besa-machine-gun-ammo-crate.1170157/

 

Then I started zooming in on the photo just like Harrison Ford in the Blade Runner movie. And I saw this.

 

I wonder what this "M7" stands for?

Does anybody know the dimensions of this crate? Or dimensions of a single BESA ammo can? I think I'll make them myself.

As for the box number 3, it seems to me that this is the truncated box number 2. It has the same height but box number 2 is on the louvre doors so it is why it looks taller.

 

Marek/Mark

[Kingsman]

I think you've only outlined part of the Box 2 on the right.  It goes all the way up to the guy's backside.  But yes, the Box 3 does sit lower down off the engine door louvres.

 

As that Box 3 has no visible means of support holding it on to the vehicle in its very precarious position and it appears to be holding other boxes in place too, I would bet that it's a cut-down Box 2 bolted to the rear hull - using the panel securing bolts visible on the other side - and used as a stowage box.  Although a longer box would fit in the space, cutting it to that size keeps the catches in the middle of the lid.

 

The wooden Box 1 is the type H29.  The rope handle (as opposed to webbing) makes the ones in the pictures the MkII version.  Now, this box was originally intended for 0.303" belted ammunition for Vickers guns but got re-purposed to also be used for the belted 7.92mm BESA ammunition (and 9mm in cartons).  I have no definitive evidence for this but it seems likely that the "M7" was affixed to immediately differentiate otherwise-identical boxes of 7.92mm from boxes of 0.303".  The numbers appear to be screwed on.  The original colour of these boxes was "bluish green": they didn't go brown until 1945.  Neither Australia nor New Zealand manufactured 7.92mm during WW2 - or indeed at any time - so these would be UK supply boxes.  Same for the 2pdr ammunition. 

 

I believe these boxes are very rare now as most were thrown away or broken up: their only job was to transport the 2 inner metal boxes (or "liners"), after which they had no purpose.  There was no reverse supply chain in WW2 for empty ammo cans or boxes or spent cases.