What color were British army M3 Stuarts in Burma in 1941-42?

[flyinghorse]

I am struggling to find visual information on this. I heard they were painted olive drab but I want to be absolutely sure. I can find no reference to this since I know M3 Honey's fought the Japanese during the Burma campaign in 1942. Any help will be appreciated as I am thinking of building an M3 in 1/35 and wanted to tackle this topic.

[nheather]

From Mike Starmer’s MAFVA site.

 

https://www.mafva.org/british-vehicle-camouflage-1939-45/?v=79cba1185463
 

Quote

FAR EAST.

Until 1943 vehicles appear to conform to UK standards.  Colour images exist of Morris Quads at Singapore in Khaki Green No.3 and Dark Tarmac.  Early 1943 S.C.C.13 “Jungle Green” introduced for use as single overall colour.  But 1944 S.C.C. 16 Very Dark Drab (a.k.a. SEASCC.207) may be coming into use.    By 1944 there was a range of colours for camouflage purposes issued by SEAC in Ceylon (now Sri Lanka) but there is no evidence that any of these were intended as disruptive colours. Single overall basic colour remained from 1943 -45.

 

So, it seems, the answer will depend on the period you are trying to depict.  Sounds like SCC 13 or SCC 16 from 1943 onwards, both sound a little darker than olive drab.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

[Kingsman]

The extract above refers to British-built vehicles.  US-supplied vehicles were not routinely repainted where a greenish colour was appropriate, which it would be in the Far East. 

 

However, the M3 Stuarts of 2RTR and 7th Hussars were redeployed to Burma from N Africa and so would have needed repainting as desert colours were hardly appropriate.  In early 42 the SCCs had not yet appeared and in any case the supply chain to the Far East was long.  The authorised British green for Europe at that time would have been Khaki Green 3.  But the Far East colour until some time in 1943 was still the pre-war Middle Bronze Green, so it must be assumed that there were stocks of this in theatre.  It was apparently quite similar to KG3 but could be satin or even gloss.

 

You might find this guide useful.

http://www.fireandfury.com/painting/burmaarmypaintingguide.pdf

[Mike Starmer]

The reports that the Stuarts from M.E. to Burma were painted green are common. By implication re-painted from their desert colours.  But if these were new deliveries re-dispatched or diverted before being painted desert colour then US Olive Drab would be their colour.   Lacking knowledge of what colours were in the M.E. paint stocks for all purposes I cannot suggest an alternative colour.  

The pre-war colour was Deep Bronze Green No.24, very dark and more satin than gloss as it is these days, not at all like Khaki Green No.3.  What images I have of the Burma Stuarts do not show a dark enough tone to be Deep Bronze Green.  

The 'Fire & Fury' article is quite old, the colour information is based on the content in one of my early edition books and B.T. White's material published in 1976, from where I quoted his assertion that Middle Bronze Green 23  had been renamed Khaki Green.  A presumption on his part which is now disproven.   SCC.13 is a dull muddy looking green whilst SCC.16 Very Dark Drab is even darker and more muddy looking.  This is the colour used on BAe. Hawks used by the Finnish A.F. with BS.222 Light Bronze Green.  It is usually depicted on some artwork and models as black.   Mixes which will be very close to the Far East colours are:-

SCC.13 (jungle green):  4 x H159 +3 x H155 + 1 x H33 or  4 x Rev 42 +1 x H159 which is slightly dark.

SCC.16 Very Dark Drab aka SCCSEAC 207;  4 x H159 + 2 x H150 + 1 x H133 + 1 x H33.  

[Ade H]

@Mike Starmer Mike, firstly, thank you so much for your stirling contributions to the tricky topic of British colours. But I wanted to check what paint range you're using there. They look like Mr. Hobby numbers, but don't match that range.

[Tim R-T-C]

It will be H for Humbrol based on the colours.

 

Although do note that Humbrol 159 is only available in enamel - aside from a few mini-pots of acrylic 159 included in the Airfix Cromwell starter pack.

[Mike Starmer]

Yes, all Humbrol, should have mentioned that, I use H as a simple prefix in my published mixes.