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Opinions... best 1/48 Spit mkV


Tokyo Raider
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Hi Guys...  I want to build George Beurlings Mkv Spitfire...  I know little about Spitfires, enough to be dangerous as they say!

 

This was his Malta Spitfire, I think dark earth and middlestone with the sand filter.  What 1/48 model would be best for this plane?  Was it a MkVb or mkVc?

 

Eduard mkV or airfix mkV?  I see the airfix is hard to find...

 

Thanks for your help!

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I should mention, I just picked up the new Eagle Squadron Eduard dual kit for MkV, but I havent studied what oprions it builds.  

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Well, first of all figure out if you're doing a Vc or a Vb, but in either case the new Eduard is a safe bet.  The Airfix Vb is also a good kit, but not quite as refined as Eduard's.

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23 minutes ago, gingerbob said:

Well, first of all figure out if you're doing a Vc or a Vb, but in either case the new Eduard is a safe bet.  The Airfix Vb is also a good kit, but not quite as refined as Eduard's.

I dont really know which spit he had.  I see two shown on internet...

 

Code 'T O L' MkVb in dk earth and middlestone

Code 'S' MkVc in dk earth and sea gray.

 

I dont know if the mkVc is real scheme for Beurling or not...

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I build the Airfix kit result can be seen here

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235068108-mjlevines-worn-out-spitfire-vbtrop-148/

...you can build a decent replica of it but the Eduard one has the much better surface texture and is more refined, if i would build another one i would choose

Eduard

 

Cheers 

Hans

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1 hour ago, supersonic said:

I build the Airfix kit result can be seen here

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235068108-mjlevines-worn-out-spitfire-vbtrop-148/

...you can build a decent replica of it but the Eduard one has the much better surface texture and is more refined, if i would build another one i would choose

Eduard

 

Cheers 

Hans

Greetings Hans...  that is a fabulous spitfire you made!  Well done!  I would be very happy with that result!

 

The Eduard dual kit days mkVb and mkVc, so i have to study yp what is differenxe.  Thanks

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Special Hobby make a Vc kit with Buerling's markings (for S). 

https://www.specialhobby.eu/en/our-own-production/big-sale/supermarine-spitfire-mk-vc-malta-defender-1-48.html?cur=1&force_sid=u3mf6albgn8bu9r106f6b0l382&lang=1&redirected=1

 

I've made a version of this kit (Seafire) and it was Ok, but looking at the Eduard kit, only in the box so far, I'd go with that one.

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4 hours ago, Tokyo Raider said:

I dont really know which spit he had.  I see two shown on internet...

 

Code 'T O L' MkVb in dk earth and middlestone

Code 'S' MkVc in dk earth and sea gray.

 

I dont know if the mkVc is real scheme for Beurling or not..

Malta schemes are much discussed ....

1 hour ago, Tokyo Raider said:

The Eduard dual kit days mkVb and mkVc, so i have to study yp what is differenxe

basically the wing

B wing

C wing,  or universal wing as fitted to most Spitfires after this. 

there is quick guide to the wings here, http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/concise-guide-to-spitfire-wing-types.html

apologies if  stating the obvious! 

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Take your pick, Beurling flew ten different serials while stationed on Malta.  There are a couple Vb listed as not tropical according to the Spifire Production page, but in the Brian Cauchi publication he has them labelled as tropical.  He also has two letter codes for the following aircraft, so maybe the linked chart was just abbreviated:

EN973,  T-T

EP135, T-Z

EP706, T-L

BR173, T-D

 

spacer.png

 

regards,

Jack

 

Edited by JackG
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26 minutes ago, JackG said:

Take your pick, Beurling flew ten different serials while stationed on Malta.  There are a couple Vb listed as not tropical according to the Spifire Production page, but in the Brian Cauchi publication he has them labelled as tropical.  He also has two letter codes for the following aircraft, so maybe the linked chart was just abbreviated:

EN973,  T-T

EP135, T-Z

EP706, T-L

BR173, T-D

 

spacer.png

 

regards,

Jack

 

Thanks Jack!  Huge help...  which plane did he put the 20 kills on?  I found a picture of George in the cockpit and you can see the kill crosses on fuselage...  i am still studying this project!

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Boy oh boy!  Not only do you have to pick your airframe, but you have to choose the exact instant in time you want to portray!

A single airframe (in the space of a couple of months) may have been manufactured in a temperate land scheme, repainted in Scotland to a tropical land scheme, possibly repainted again in Gibraltar to a (1) temperate sea scheme, (2) overall grey or blue scheme, possibly repainted on the carrier with USN or RAF colours, or repainted in Malta using local, RAF, or RN paints!

Did I miss any variations?

 

Ain't research fun?

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15 minutes ago, Tokyo Raider said:

Thanks Jack!  Huge help...  which plane did he put the 20 kills on?  I found a picture of George in the cockpit and you can see the kill crosses on fuselage...  i am still studying this project!

Aeromaster decal sheet 48-598 (Defenders of Malta 2) shows a Vb EP706 T*L in the tropical land scheme with the kill markings, BUT, it is 'Error'master, so who knows!

He did have kill markings on his aircraft when he transferred to the RCAF (403 and 412 Sqdn's) in England.

 

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Edited by Tail-Dragon
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Thanks tail dragon...  i have peddinghouse decals for T-L in the land scheme...  I was planning that until I saw his S code plane in the Malta scheme...

 

Does anyone know that the wing gun configuration was for the serials listed in the table above?  I see (in Eduard mkv kit) that you can have a Vc with twin cannons, a cannon and a faired over gun, or just single cannon...  I am sure you guys could tell from the serial number which type of c wing these had...

 

Anyone know where to find that out?

 

Immense thanks guys!

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22 minutes ago, Tokyo Raider said:

Does anyone know that the wing gun configuration was for the serials listed in the table above?  I see (in Eduard mkv kit) that you can have a Vc with twin cannons, a cannon and a faired over gun, or just single cannon...  I am sure you guys could tell from the serial number which type of c wing these had...

No,  it was a universal wing,  so the gun fit could be changed.  The 4 cannon set up was found to be too heavy, and is very rarely seen.

This required a wide flat bulge.

The commonest set up was a 20mm in the inner bay, then a blanked stub and then 2x 0.303

This usually has a slim bulge in the inner position, but  is also seen with the wide flat bulge. 

the bulge was to the Chatellerualt cannon feed mechanism,

 

The Eduard kit, if shows a single cannon, you are most likely looking at a B wing.    Very rarely was the outer stub completely removed on a C wing.  

the B wing has bulges above and below the wing, and are a different shape and position, as the cannon was fed by a drum. 

 

I linked a guide to the wing types, which will explain more.

Page 2 here http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/concise-guide-to-spitfire-wing-types.html/2 explains the above in more detail. 

 

22 minutes ago, Tokyo Raider said:

 

Anyone know where to find that out?

photos of you chosen subject. 

 

There is a list of Spitfire production here,  by serial, 

http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/production.html

which will list what variant it was.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Tokyo Raider said:

Thanks tail dragon...  i have peddinghouse decals for T-L in the land scheme...  I was planning that until I saw his S code plane in the Malta scheme...

 

Does anyone know that the wing gun configuration was for the serials listed in the table above?  I see (in Eduard mkv kit) that you can have a Vc with twin cannons, a cannon and a faired over gun, or just single cannon...  I am sure you guys could tell from the serial number which type of c wing these had...

 

Anyone know where to find that out?

 

Immense thanks guys!

I just had a look at the Peddinghouse decals - WHAT is going on with those roundels? Best find some replacements!

 

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Yes, only yellow codes and some stencils are usable on that sheet!  Thanks for the help taildragon...  research is fun!  Then like an Aviation Archaeologist, you need to make a decision and paint it some way...

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Peddinghouse must of designed those decals while partying heavily during Oktoberfest...

 

According to this write up, Beurling scored his 20th 'Malta' kill on October 10th.  Actually he downed two 109's that day, bringing his tally to 21 while flying a Vb tropical EP706 T-L.

https://www.emedals.com/flying-officer-george-frederick-beurling-dso-dfc-dfm-bar-raf-rcaf-autograph

 

regards,

Jack

 

 

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Loads of good advice here.. :) I would also go with Eduards these days. Not built it but it looks amazing!

 

I built two of the aircraft Beurling flew, some years ago (sorry for the dust!). Decals from Victory-something.. Might still be around? Great sheet with loads of Spitfire Aces!

 

51569968040_4986b5c964_b.jpg

 

Vc is the Special Hobby and the Vb is Tamiyas. Special hobby is okay but there are probably easier kits (Master barrels). Tamiya´s is sweet but there are more modern. It builds easily though!

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two observations:

 

the 249 squadron (Buzz's) ac with the T codes may have had these codes in light grey paint not yellow

 

frequent Malta Vc spit configuration:  20 mm cannons in the outer positions only (inner cannon port replaced with a protruding bung or just flush), outer mgs deleted - when the inner cannons were retained the outers always seem to be replaced with the bungs (also frequently seen in Malta Vcs) - ac with deleted outer or inner cannons often retained the full sized wide bulge on the upper wing bay access

 

 

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An interesting variation is where they moved the 2 canon to the outer bays, and had locally made bombing gear on the inner bay, that seems to have had the pilot pull cables to release the bombs (think - Murphy's war, perhaps!)

 

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some more observations (walking on thin ice, so might as well dance)...

 

check your references for the fuselage roundel type displayed - contemporary photos of 1942 Malta spits show variation from the early A1 (broad yellow border and small red dot X3 BR126) to another A1/2 (narrower yellow border and small dot TD BR130) to the later C1 type (very narrow yellow border, large red dot TL EP706)

 

dull red spinners (cf. Desert scheme) - these seem to appear on Malta ac more in 1943, 1942 not so much (likely exceptions) - some 1942 Malta spit spinners seem to be black, blackish, some other dark overpaint (one of the Malta blue or blue gray overpaint colours, e.g., X BR112) (b&w images not very helpful!)

 

'azure blue' - this seems to occur as a possible underparts colour on Malta spits more 1943 onwards (appears as a dark gray in b&w images), images of 1942 ac seem to show many with much lighter coloured undersurfaces (appears as whitish or very light gray in b&w images) that could have been 'sky blue' (light greyish blue, my preference) or Sky.  Exception XP EP606 photo shows a dark undersurface colour possibly 'azure blue'.

 

ilj

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