The Demon and the 3D Printer a Covid Tale.

[The Spadgent]

Welcome chums to this thing that I have decided to start. I’m not sure exactly what I intend to achieve but it all started when this happens at the tail end of last week.

🤒🤒🤒🤒Hmmmm not good. That was my Daughter. Since then my wife and now my son have succumbed to the Covid number 19. *Trust me I’m going somewhere with this.

To keep us ( myself and the dog ) separated from the great infected I have moved into the sitting room. Where I eat and sleep. I still have the grotto and of course my desk on the landing upstairs where I’ve worked from for the past…..two years is it?  crikey!

In between looking after the family I have found I have some time all to myself. ( idle hands and all that ) 😈  

Since the Mustang got pretty much completed and I’d promised not to start anything till I’d done all my RFIs there was nothing else for it.

And.

A dangerous mix indeed!

[hendie]

I can see what's coming down the pipeline 

[The Spadgent]

That wasn’t all. As it happens spending time on your own reading threads on BM with heady tales of 3D resin printers and making your own kits my mind and fingers strayed to a well known internet book selling site. I believe they sell other items too these days. 

Before I knew what I was doing this had arrived in said sitting room.

And maybe these too. 🙄😬

🤩🤫

Seeing the fantastic builds of Tony @TheBaron and Alan @hendie. I needed a bit of that action. Baby steps at first but let’s see where it leads us eh.

The kit certainly has its shortcomings but I’m sure we can make something…… well something out of it. 😇

The wheels and the tail I believe have seen better days.

I think with the help of Mr Mars.

And Mr Mercury.

I might be able to have some fun and summon a Demon from this kit. 😈😈😈

well it is Halloween after all. 🦇

 

Follow along dear friends. I’ll be jumping in head first, or is it feet first?  Into the unknown and also the known. This won’t be a 3D printed Demon oh no, this will be the Airfix vintage Demon with some new bits glued on.

 

Sounds like a bit of a giggle. 
 

Johnny.

[AdrianMF]

First in. Glued to the screen for this one. I love the old Airfix Demon but it will need some TLC. And I’m sure you’re the man to do it!

 

And I hope you all get better soon…

 

Regards,

Adrian

[cngaero]

I do hope that your family soon get rid of this horrible bug soon.

With regards to this project, you had me with "Airfix Hawker Demon", one of my favourite kits as a yoof. But then you added the 3D thingaby wotsit to the equation and I'm hooked.

Good luck with this project.

[The Spadgent]

1 hour ago, hendie said:

I can see what's coming down the pipeline 

Hehe. I bet you can. 🤩

42 minutes ago, AdrianMF said:

First in. Glued to the screen for this one. I love the old Airfix Demon but it will need some TLC. And I’m sure you’re the man to do it!

 

And I hope you all get better soon…

 

Regards,

Adrian

Great to have you aboard dear sir. I’m starting small. You can’t get much smaller. 😀

9 minutes ago, cngaero said:

I do hope that your family soon get rid of this horrible bug soon.

With regards to this project, you had me with "Airfix Hawker Demon", one of my favourite kits as a yoof. But then you added the 3D thingaby wotsit to the equation and I'm hooked.

Good luck with this project.

Thankyou and nice to have you around. Let’s see if we can’t get this thing started eh. 🤪

[The Spadgent]

I know it’s late but as mentioned I’m in the sitting room with the dog so what the hey! I feel a bit like Peter Cushing as Victor Frankenstein. Lab upstairs cigars and Sherry down here. Well without the cigars and Sherry. 😆 I had made dinner for everyone and had a few hours spare. I had done the test print on the Mars this weekend but I’m eager to do one of my own. I’m not 100% sure what I’m doing but I’ve watched a lot of you tube videos so I figured in for a penny and all that. 
what do they say “ KISS “ Keep It Simple Stupid. So let’s start with those wheels. I found some pics and went at it with 3D Studio.

Thirty minutes later I had these.

It’s so nice building something for me again. 😇

even used that clay mode no one uses. But for this stuff it really helps you see where the Flory will go. ❤️

I think I went a little bit to town but I was having fun.

all I want is for my first ever print to actually print and for it to be the right size. If it was perfect first time that would be a bonus!! 🧐

Chitu Box. “gezondheid”.  (Yes I googled it) 
That’s the program you use to get the wheel from 3Dstudio into ze printer. I’ve seen folk rotate at 45degrees, 60degrees, 10degrees, hell @hendie that guy does 0 degrees. So what a to do. Well I tried a few times and this was what I thought might work. It’s a bit auto and a bit my own. 

I can feel Tony and Alan having a little snicker at this. Judging by the scale I think I went a bit OTT. The auto generate had me put supports on each rivet. 🤪

but it’s my first rodeo so …..

I doubled it up sliced it and in the oven for 60 minutes.

I came down to start this thread. By the time I’d done it had done all it was going to do. There they are hanging off the build plate.

I must admit with the Mercury and the tools Alan had mentioned in my scale thread here. 

Clean up and curing was wwwaaaayyyy cleaner and faster. 
But the question is did it work? 
well yes and no.

look for yourself.

Front.

And back.

I’m actually really happy with those. Just for the immense thrill of them actually looking like what I modelled. 🤗 you can even see the little rivets. 
Did I go OTT on detail? At this scale yes but if I ever need 1/48 or bigger hell no.

Did I have too many supports? Yes the two at the top you can see tore a dirty great hole in my otherwise lovely wheels. I tried to take a pic down here but the lights were low for the hound so I couldn’t bug the scale is spot on so with that as Meatloaf would say.

Two out of three ain’t bad.

I’ll re slice with less supports tomorrow and see how it goes. 
 

If anyone would like to chime in about supports please do , or indeed anything else. I do love learning new stuff.

 

Thanks for tagging along with my crazyness if indeed you are. By the way this kit has no internals. 🥸🤩

 

Night night. And Woof.

 

Johnny and Zero.  

[k5054nz]

Three things:

I'd never seen a COVID test before and I thought they were pregnancy tests, so I was very confused!

 

I'm stunned Airfix are selling the kit with that much flash (but for all I know they've cleaned up the moulds the best they can)

 

This process is utterly fascinating. I'm glad so many BM'ers document their 3D printing journeys because it's a great inspiration.

[Jo NZ]

A couple of things...

Cut the lift speed in Chitubox to 55mm/min or so. When you start to print big things, the model can pull off the build plate - this helps it stay on.

Think about the excess resin draining from the model - usually fixed by angling the piece slightly (this will also help it from pulling off) Later on you will discover hollowing out - the resin has to escape and the air get in, which is when you'll discover what holes are for. Angling also lowers the profile so it prints faster.

And the third (of two) put the supports somewhere where you can easily sand it down. You will get puddling around the supports, you'll need to play with the size and shape of the tips to optimise it. The smallest size of support only works for very light models (very!)

It's a steep learning curve but immensely satifying when you get it right. I'd suggest printin g prototypes one at a time until you've got it right - then go for printing 1000 tailwheels or whatever - it really does save on resin...

[opus999]

This will be a ton of fun to follow.  It would be neat to get into 3D printing, but I hardly have time for regular modeling -- I haven't done 3D CAD in a loooong time and It would probably take me hours to draw a simple part. 

 

Nice job on the wheels.  They look great!

[holtaa]

First...   I really hope your family pulls through the ordeal without any issues.

 

Now on to my 3d printing comments...   Nice progress so far - you are way ahead of where I was when I started about a year ago. There are about a billion ways to go about modelling, supporting, hollowing and slicing.  I have a Mars 2 as well and have found that Chitubox is not very good at supports - well, maybe I should say that I am not good at placing supports using Chitubox.  I have been much happier with using Prusa Slicer (https://help.prusa3d.com/en/article/download-prusaslicer_2220/) - it has an automatic tilt and support mode that takes all the drama out of orientation and supporting.  In addition to the automatic mode, editing the location of supports is much easier.  If you want to give it a try, I can send you my config file which should take a lot of the learning curve out of it.  Once I get the supports set, I export the model with the supports into Chitubox for slicing and printing.

 

I didn't want to deal with the alcohol cleaning process so I use the water-based resin.  Once I clean the parts with water, I let them air dry away from sunlight as I found that if I cure them while they are wet, they tend to have a thin film that obscures some of the detail.  Your curing station is very cool, I may need to upgrade in the future, I am just using the sun and it seems Mother Nature knows when I want to print something as she sends in the clouds.  Before I put the parts out to cure, I cut away most of the supports - this makes it so much easier to deal with the cleanup as the part is still kind of soft and the supports often pop off without leaving any marks.  Just as Jo NZ said, keep the supports that are easy to sand.  You'll figure out your own process as you go, just keep printing and you'll figure it out in no time.

 

Arrin

Edited October 6, 2021 by holtaa

[giemme]

Here goes our Johnny, undaunted and head first into this new adventure. Following, obvs....

 

Ciao

[Hamden]

 

Hope the family recovers soon with no after effects

Mind if I sit in?

Looking forward to seeing what you do with this old Airfix kit.

 

   Stay safe            Roger

[Edge]

Hoping the family aren’t too poorly Johnny.

 

I’ll tag along if I may, this new-fangled printing witchcraft is very interesting. Lots of potential for upgrading classic kits like your Demon. 

 

Edge

 

[perdu]

If you think I will be staying out of here you dont know me at all, it isnt green and brown/greyish and is basically my second favourite old Airfix kit.

(I'm building my first OK)

 

Johnny I hope the family get very better very soon, this vile plague is set to become very commonplace for our foreseen futures, keep safe yourself.

 

Elegoo?

 

Wow you do believe in self-extension, brilliant.

 

I'm on the bus behind you watching every stop on the way.

 

(talking of busses, I ventured into Brum last night for a meal with our lad in Chinatown.

They have killed all the streets in town and made the car a scapegoat, I couldn't drive from the Bull Ring out towards Walsall. BUS LANE BUS LANE BUS LA... you get the picture.  I had to drive towards Coventry to get on the ringroad. Bet I get a Bus Lane fine, or two.) 

 

End of rant and back to Johnty's workspace, really watching this one.

[Quiet Mike]

Clicked 'follow this topic'
Standing room only! 😲

This is going to be good ... 😉

[SaminCam]

This looks great Johnny, very tempted to get a printer myself and watching on with interest! Great choice of subjects too, I feel the need for a biplane in my life at some point... Hope you and yours are ok with the dreaded lurgy. 

[Silenoz]

Looking good. Also been tempted by the 3D-printing, but I don't suppose that SWMBO will let me have any more stuff to play with ... looking forward to the progress of exploration

[Quiet Mike]

Johnny, I already had a lot of respect for your modelling skills with plastic. Now you tell me you can actually find your way around 3D Studio too ... I'm running out of hats to doff! (And I've got a lot of hats)

I have used ArchiCAD at work for a long time, making architectural renders. Last year I spent some time trying to learn 3DS Max, as I really needed to up my game, but failed miserably, it was so complicated! I'm currently trying to learn Blender, which I'm finding a lot easier, but it's a massive learning curve. If I put it down for a week or two and come back to it, I almost have to start from scratch again. Work are being very gracious about it, but I'm wondering if I'm actually cut out for it! Making actual 'things' with my hands is much less stressful than trying to do the same virtually with pixels 😉

[LorenSharp]

Ahhh another Fabricator joins the ranks... as Billy Connolly once remarked, "One more of US, one less of them" Of course he was referring to Tattoos and whatnot , but  It fits.

I do hope your family is on the mend soon, I am going through the same thing being the only vaccinated human in the house and now am adding Nurse to my resume'🤧😷

[hendie]

Just got time for a quick drop in as I'm up to my eyes in it at work.

If you are printing the wheels as a one piece affair Johhny, there's no need for that top support - there's already enough structure there to provide support.

What I have done in the past is: put a flat on the bottom edge of the tire, and place 3 heavy supports on that flat.  For a warm and mushy feeling you could add 1 medium support on each side at about 5 and 7 o'clock positions but I don't think they'd be necessary.

I also print way more parts than necessary so I have plenty spares. Resin cost is minimal and it takes exactly the same thing time to print.

 

Congrats on your first home brewed print!

[Brandy]

Not that I'm in any way in Alan's league, but I do agree. Or you could adjust the support to move it further away from the hub. I think it's just the fact it's too close that caused that, so straightening it out a bit to keep it further away should solve it.

 

Ian

[Marklo]

Love the Demon ( well the whole Fury family) love 3D printing but  funds ( not that I don’t have them but atm negotiations are underway for a new iPhone) and my self imposed modelling rules preclude one for the near term.

 

Still will enjoy watching the saga unfold  

 

BTW thing verse is a great resource for Stl files. Somewhere I have a complete Panzer Maus downloaded for whenever I do eventually get a 3D printer.

[hendie]

Regarding some comments re: designing in CAD at 1:1.

In a perfect world, yes, and wherever possible I always try to do that. 

However, when designing for 3d printing, it's not as simple as that. You can't scale down an aircraft skin for example, and expect it to print successfully. Also, take into account that the actual models, though they may be advertised as 1/72, may not be exactly 1/72, and the model designers will have changed certain feature sizes for any number of reasons.

If you design at full size then have to back and edit features to make them printable, it can be a real pita.  Therefore, when designing parts for printing, I'll take my cues from the actual model and design accordingly - oftentimes that is "so it looks right". If I have a reference dimension to use then great,  but I may still end up adjusting the part to look better on the finished model. 

On the Wapiti for instance, I designed that at 1/48 scale from the outset.  That way I could adjust features as I went along as I know anything under 0.02mm is unlikely to print - depending upon the underlying structure and any supporting features of course. There are a few features on the Wapiti that are deliberately overscaled because they're prominent on the actual aircraft and they needed to be represented in print somehow.  

 

[The Spadgent]

20 hours ago, k5054nz said:

Three things:

I'd never seen a COVID test before and I thought they were pregnancy tests, so I was very confused!

 

I'm stunned Airfix are selling the kit with that much flash (but for all I know they've cleaned up the moulds the best they can)

 

This process is utterly fascinating. I'm glad so many BM'ers document their 3D printing journeys because it's a great inspiration.

Pregnant!!!! Now that would cause me to panic. 🤣

As for the kit it’s a re issue of an old 1968 kit so it’s bound to be a bit wobbly here and there. Glad to have you around dear sir. Nibbles are by the bar.

20 hours ago, Jo NZ said:

A couple of things...

Cut the lift speed in Chitubox to 55mm/min or so. When you start to print big things, the model can pull off the build plate - this helps it stay on.

Think about the excess resin draining from the model - usually fixed by angling the piece slightly (this will also help it from pulling off) Later on you will discover hollowing out - the resin has to escape and the air get in, which is when you'll discover what holes are for. Angling also lowers the profile so it prints faster.

And the third (of two) put the supports somewhere where you can easily sand it down. You will get puddling around the supports, you'll need to play with the size and shape of the tips to optimise it. The smallest size of support only works for very light models (very!)

It's a steep learning curve but immensely satifying when you get it right. I'd suggest printin g prototypes one at a time until you've got it right - then go for printing 1000 tailwheels or whatever - it really does save on resin...

Thanks for the advice. It’s much appreciated. I have seen models hollowed. The slice programs don’t tend to do a great job so I might just do it myself when I built the 3D version. Lots to learn.

19 hours ago, opus999 said:

This will be a ton of fun to follow.  It would be neat to get into 3D printing, but I hardly have time for regular modeling -- I haven't done 3D CAD in a loooong time and It would probably take me hours to draw a simple part. 

 

Nice job on the wheels.  They look great!

Thanks. Fun for me too. Nice to have you around. 🤩

15 hours ago, holtaa said:

First...   I really hope your family pulls through the ordeal without any issues.

 

Now on to my 3d printing comments...   Nice progress so far - you are way ahead of where I was when I started about a year ago. There are about a billion ways to go about modelling, supporting, hollowing and slicing.  I have a Mars 2 as well and have found that Chitubox is not very good at supports - well, maybe I should say that I am not good at placing supports using Chitubox.  I have been much happier with using Prusa Slicer (https://help.prusa3d.com/en/article/download-prusaslicer_2220/) - it has an automatic tilt and support mode that takes all the drama out of orientation and supporting.  In addition to the automatic mode, editing the location of supports is much easier.  If you want to give it a try, I can send you my config file which should take a lot of the learning curve out of it.  Once I get the supports set, I export the model with the supports into Chitubox for slicing and printing.

 

I didn't want to deal with the alcohol cleaning process so I use the water-based resin.  Once I clean the parts with water, I let them air dry away from sunlight as I found that if I cure them while they are wet, they tend to have a thin film that obscures some of the detail.  Your curing station is very cool, I may need to upgrade in the future, I am just using the sun and it seems Mother Nature knows when I want to print something as she sends in the clouds.  Before I put the parts out to cure, I cut away most of the supports - this makes it so much easier to deal with the cleanup as the part is still kind of soft and the supports often pop off without leaving any marks.  Just as Jo NZ said, keep the supports that are easy to sand.  You'll figure out your own process as you go, just keep printing and you'll figure it out in no time.

 

Arrin

Thanks for the tips. I think I’ll stick with Chitu box for now as it’s the recommended tool by Elegoo. If I find im struggling I’ll try something new.  So great to get good advice from you all. 

14 hours ago, giemme said:

Here goes our Johnny, undaunted and head first into this new adventure. Following, obvs....

 

Ciao

Thanks Giorgio. You’ll not be far behind. 🤗

14 hours ago, Hamden said:

 

Hope the family recovers soon with no after effects

Mind if I sit in?

Looking forward to seeing what you do with this old Airfix kit.

 

   Stay safe            Roger

Thanks for the well wishes. Pull up a bean bag. 🤩

14 hours ago, Edge said:

Hoping the family aren’t too poorly Johnny.

 

I’ll tag along if I may, this new-fangled printing witchcraft is very interesting. Lots of potential for upgrading classic kits like your Demon. 

 

Edge

 

Thanks. I hope the potential comes to fruition.

12 hours ago, perdu said:

If you think I will be staying out of here you dont know me at all, it isnt green and brown/greyish and is basically my second favourite old Airfix kit.

(I'm building my first OK)

 

Johnny I hope the family get very better very soon, this vile plague is set to become very commonplace for our foreseen futures, keep safe yourself.

 

Elegoo?

 

Wow you do believe in self-extension, brilliant.

 

I'm on the bus behind you watching every stop on the way.

 

(talking of busses, I ventured into Brum last night for a meal with our lad in Chinatown.

They have killed all the streets in town and made the car a scapegoat, I couldn't drive from the Bull Ring out towards Walsall. BUS LANE BUS LANE BUS LA... you get the picture.  I had to drive towards Coventry to get on the ringroad. Bet I get a Bus Lane fine, or two.) 

 

End of rant and back to Johnty's workspace, really watching this one.

Great to have you around Bill. Of course I was hoping to lure you in with the Demon. 😈 Birmingham has really changed over the past few years. Due to the clean air zone it’s an £8 charge to drive around the centre. Looks like the train for me if and when I start working in the City again. Grab a pint of the good stuff and pull up a pew. 🍻

11 hours ago, Quiet Mike said:

Clicked 'follow this topic'
Standing room only! 😲

This is going to be good ... 😉

I do hope so. 😇

11 hours ago, SaminCam said:

This looks great Johnny, very tempted to get a printer myself and watching on with interest! Great choice of subjects too, I feel the need for a biplane in my life at some point... Hope you and yours are ok with the dreaded lurgy. 

Thanks. I couldn’t resist the resin any longer. The price has gone up again on Amazon but not by too much.😈

10 hours ago, Silenoz said:

Looking good. Also been tempted by the 3D-printing, but I don't suppose that SWMBO will let me have any more stuff to play with ... looking forward to the progress of exploration

You could not tell her? Could say it’s a fish tank. 🤣

10 hours ago, Quiet Mike said:

Johnny, I already had a lot of respect for your modelling skills with plastic. Now you tell me you can actually find your way around 3D Studio too ... I'm running out of hats to doff! (And I've got a lot of hats)

I have used ArchiCAD at work for a long time, making architectural renders. Last year I spent some time trying to learn 3DS Max, as I really needed to up my game, but failed miserably, it was so complicated! I'm currently trying to learn Blender, which I'm finding a lot easier, but it's a massive learning curve. If I put it down for a week or two and come back to it, I almost have to start from scratch again. Work are being very gracious about it, but I'm wondering if I'm actually cut out for it! Making actual 'things' with my hands is much less stressful than trying to do the same virtually with pixels 😉

Far too kind but thank you. Max is a bit of a beast but I have been using it for years and years. People say blender is easy to pick up so you’re probably on the right path there. You do need to stick at it though. But as you said, if you’re having more fun the other way, do that. 🤗

7 hours ago, LorenSharp said:

Ahhh another Fabricator joins the ranks... as Billy Connolly once remarked, "One more of US, one less of them" Of course he was referring to Tattoos and whatnot , but  It fits.

I do hope your family is on the mend soon, I am going through the same thing being the only vaccinated human in the house and now am adding Nurse to my resume'🤧😷

Thank you kind sir. Well wishes in your general direction. Hope the Covid leaves soon. 

7 hours ago, hendie said:

Just got time for a quick drop in as I'm up to my eyes in it at work.

If you are printing the wheels as a one piece affair Johhny, there's no need for that top support - there's already enough structure there to provide support.

What I have done in the past is: put a flat on the bottom edge of the tire, and place 3 heavy supports on that flat.  For a warm and mushy feeling you could add 1 medium support on each side at about 5 and 7 o'clock positions but I don't think they'd be necessary.

I also print way more parts than necessary so I have plenty spares. Resin cost is minimal and it takes exactly the same thing time to print.

 

Congrats on your first home brewed print!

Ha! I almost knew you would say that, I read this after I had done a print tonight. See the update to see what I mean. 🤩🤩🙌

6 hours ago, Brandy said:

Not that I'm in any way in Alan's league, but I do agree. Or you could adjust the support to move it further away from the hub. I think it's just the fact it's too close that caused that, so straightening it out a bit to keep it further away should solve it.

 

Ian

Yes you’re right but it’s so small the support just got deleted.

4 hours ago, Marklo said:

Love the Demon ( well the whole Fury family) love 3D printing but  funds ( not that I don’t have them but atm negotiations are underway for a new iPhone) and my self imposed modelling rules preclude one for the near term.

 

Still will enjoy watching the saga unfold  

 

BTW thing verse is a great resource for Stl files. Somewhere I have a complete Panzer Maus downloaded for whenever I do eventually get a 3D printer.

Oooh thing verse you say. Thanks.

1 hour ago, hendie said:

Regarding some comments re: designing in CAD at 1:1.

In a perfect world, yes, and wherever possible I always try to do that. 

However, when designing for 3d printing, it's not as simple as that. You can't scale down an aircraft skin for example, and expect it to print successfully. Also, take into account that the actual models, though they may be advertised as 1/72, may not be exactly 1/72, and the model designers will have changed certain feature sizes for any number of reasons.

If you design at full size then have to back and edit features to make them printable, it can be a real pita.  Therefore, when designing parts for printing, I'll take my cues from the actual model and design accordingly - oftentimes that is "so it looks right". If I have a reference dimension to use then great,  but I may still end up adjusting the part to look better on the finished model. 

On the Wapiti for instance, I designed that at 1/48 scale from the outset.  That way I could adjust features as I went along as I know anything under 0.02mm is unlikely to print - depending upon the underlying structure and any supporting features of course. There are a few features on the Wapiti that are deliberately overscaled because they're prominent on the actual aircraft and they needed to be represented in print somehow.  

 

Very good point. I’m planing on building to scale and making the details to suit after doing this first print. I’m thinking of doing a @corsaircorp special and doing a fully printed model too.  I can’t put this stuff down. I think I’ve got another type of bug in my system. 
 

Johnny