Tempest Mk. V ser. 2 intake covering

[Gino]

Greetings people,

 

I recently picked up modelmaking again (My last model was finished 35 years ago.) and decided to go for the Eduard 84170 Tempest Mk. V ser. 2 kit. I'm going for the "B" option being the EJ705 shown here:

The kit can be augmented with PE parts, including a grill intake covering that raises a few questions. The only photo evidence of a Tempest V with grill intake covering I've managed to find was this one:

 

The front Tempest is the JN803 of 486 sqn at Grimbergen. Since the squadron was at Grimbergen only one day, the photo must have been shot on September 30th, 1944. 

 

The EJ705 above arrived on the European continent two days earlier, and remained in operation by 80 Sqn until March 11, 1945. Clearly, the top photo does not show the grill intake covering. I'm not entirely sure when and where the picture was shot but it would most likely be around December '44 at Volkel airfield. Since I like the look of the covering, I would like to use the PE part for the EJ705. I'm trying to figure out whether the EJ705 ever was fitted with the grill covering. I'd appreciate any input on this matter.

 

What was the function of the grill intake? Were series 2 Tempests Mk. V fitted with the covering from the factory and later removed due to additional drag? Where they fitted in the hay season to keep the air filter from clogging up?   

 

Is it likely that the EJ705 ever was fitted with the same grill covering? I believe EJ-series Tempest were built at the Gloster factory rather than Langley. They must have been brand new when they arrived at Antwerp airfield. (80 Sqn didn't pass through Grimbergen.)  

 

Any help is highly appreciated!

 

Gino

[tempestfan]

There was a thread not long ago which I think related to someone building a specific Tempest with a family background, IIRC from the 1/32 SH kit (or a Revell boxing thereof). While that thread probably is not directly connected with EJ705, there were some excellent close up pics of the intake region. I downloaded one, and it was on 11 February. 

Found the RFI  - and here's the WiP. Not sure if it's helpful, but right the first pic shows just about the clearest pic of the "trapdoor" filter I remember. That thread was a delight!

Edited October 4, 2021 by tempestfan

[Gino]

Hi Tempestfan,

 

Thanks for the share. Wonderful thread indeed. 

 

I wasn't referring to the Cuckoo-door intake of the later Mk Vs. I was hoping to get some more information on the grill covering with the three vertical bars. I found another picture of the grill covering. This one is from October '44. I cannot see the serial but I'm guessing it's an EJ-series. The airfield is Bradwell Bay and appears to be very grassy. So that could explain the intake covering. 

[dogsbody]

You can see that grill here. On the lower right of the photo, you will see 3 items. Click on the righthand one to enlarge the image. Then click on the + or - to enlarge more or less. On the lower left of the image is the caption.

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205206580

 

 

 

 

Chris

[FinnAndersen]

13 hours ago, dogsbody said:

You can see that grill here. ...

 

 

 

 

Chris

Don't know what you see, but to me it looks like three bars, perhaps ment to support some kind of panel (called a FOD cover nowadays) that was inserted when parking the plane.

 

/Finn

[Gino]

20 minutes ago, FinnAndersen said:

Don't know what you see, but to me it looks like three bars, perhaps ment to support some kind of panel (called a FOD cover nowadays) that was inserted when parking the plane.

 

/Finn

Here's a link to a finished Eduard 82122 kit fitted with the intake covering. This is a model of the JN803, the front Tempest in the photo at Grimbergen airfield.

 

Your suggestion that the cover was used only during parking is interesting. But why then would  you use a grill covering on a parked plane? A simple solid  wood or canvas board would have done a better job in keeping junk out of the intake. The engine would not need to be run while parking. So I'm guessing that the cover was used at least during taxiing and perhaps was removed right before take off.

[FinnAndersen]

53 minutes ago, Gino said:

Your suggestion that the cover was used only during parking is interesting. But why then would  you use a grill covering on a parked plane? A simple solid  wood or canvas board would have done a better job in keeping junk out of the intake. The engine would not need to be run while parking. So I'm guessing that the cover was used at least during taxiing and perhaps was removed right before take off.

Good luck for the poor bloke that had to take the cover off with the engine running 🙂.   

 

Pure conjecture, but being on a forward airfield, you might get a few artillery rounds exploding throwing mud all over the place. As we don't see a lot of these covers, it might have been an idea implemented before deployment and discarded when the realities showed that it was not needed. 

 

/Finn

[Chris Thomas]

The grill visible in the photo of JN803 is a 'debris guard'.  It was not a factory-fitted item but was introduced in the spring of 1944, on Typhoons and Tempests, which were operating with increasing frequency from hastily constructed ALGs.  I have not found any documentary evidence concerning their use but have deduced the following from study of photos.  As far as Tempests are concerned, the guard is evident on some but not all the Tempests on the Newchurch wing in the summer of 44; it is also evident on a photo of a 3 Sqn Tempest at Eindhoven around the same time as the EJ705/W2-X photo.  Others at that time show no guard fitted.  

 

The guard disappeared from Typhoons at the end of June 1944 as the dust-filters required in Normandy meant the guard could not be fitted.  The dust filters eventually appeared on Tempests too, apparently in early spring 45 (and reappeared on Typhoons too - having not been required during the winter).  A bit later - possibly shortly before the end of war, a new debris guard with a circular aperture tailored around the dust filter appeared and is often visible on Tempests in BAFO post war.

 

I have a high res scan of the EJ705 and have delved into the heavily shadowed intake using Photoshop but can see no trace of the debris guard.  However, as you will have deduced, both the debris guard and the dust filter were items fitted as and when required, so unless you have a photo  which reveals the fitting at a specific time ... anything goes.

CT

[JasonC]

The function of such guards is to keep hard debris from directly impacting the radiator matrix. Since the tubes of the latter carry coolant, such impacts risk cracking the cooling tubes and causing a leak. A similar function can be achieved by having the first row of the matrix be solid rather than hollow. Clearly in that case they would have no cooling function!

[Dave Swindell]

2 hours ago, JasonC said:

The function of such guards is to keep hard debris from directly impacting the radiator matrix. Since the tubes of the latter carry coolant, such impacts risk cracking the cooling tubes and causing a leak. A similar function can be achieved by having the first row of the matrix be solid rather than hollow. Clearly in that case they would have no cooling function!

Wouldn't work - the air flows through the tubes not over them. The tubes run horizontally front to rear through the radiator matrix, the coolant flows over the outside of the tubes in the matrix.

Hurricane radiator was very similar, see here for construction

http://www.vintagecarradiatorcompany.co.uk/vintage-aircraft/

 

[JasonC]

46 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

Wouldn't work - the air flows through the tubes not over them. The tubes run horizontally front to rear through the radiator matrix, the coolant flows over the outside of the tubes in the matrix.

Hurricane radiator was very similar, see here for construction

http://www.vintagecarradiatorcompany.co.uk/vintage-aircraft/

 

Clearly the second solution depends on the construction of the radiator. A FOD screen a la the photo above would help protect even the style you've linked to.

[Tail-Dragon]

It's not an intake cover, it's a FOD screen to prevent damage to the radiator, oil cooler and ingestion of foreign objects into the intake duct, from rough and semi-prepared airfields. On the upper photo, you can see the mounting tabs where it was screwed into the intake. also, it appears to be constructed in 4 segments. As a previous poster mentioned, it couldn't be installed with the 'Normandy' dust filters.

 

Installation on Typhoon's ...

 

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Tail-Dragon

[Gino]

On 10/6/2021 at 11:37 AM, Chris Thomas said:

The grill visible in the photo of JN803 is a 'debris guard'.  It was not a factory-fitted item but was introduced in the spring of 1944, on Typhoons and Tempests, which were operating with increasing frequency from hastily constructed ALGs.  I have not found any documentary evidence concerning their use but have deduced the following from study of photos.  As far as Tempests are concerned, the guard is evident on some but not all the Tempests on the Newchurch wing in the summer of 44; it is also evident on a photo of a 3 Sqn Tempest at Eindhoven around the same time as the EJ705/W2-X photo.  Others at that time show no guard fitted.  

 

The guard disappeared from Typhoons at the end of June 1944 as the dust-filters required in Normandy meant the guard could not be fitted.  The dust filters eventually appeared on Tempests too, apparently in early spring 45 (and reappeared on Typhoons too - having not been required during the winter).  A bit later - possibly shortly before the end of war, a new debris guard with a circular aperture tailored around the dust filter appeared and is often visible on Tempests in BAFO post war.

 

I have a high res scan of the EJ705 and have delved into the heavily shadowed intake using Photoshop but can see no trace of the debris guard.  However, as you will have deduced, both the debris guard and the dust filter were items fitted as and when required, so unless you have a photo  which reveals the fitting at a specific time ... anything goes.

CT

Hi Chris, Thank you for the explanation and for taking the time to look into EJ705 on this. I've seen your name a few times on books covering Typhoons and Tempests. Awesome of you to respond to my post.

[Gino]

On 10/6/2021 at 4:43 PM, Tail-Dragon said:

It's not an intake cover, it's a FOD screen to prevent damage to the radiator, oil cooler and ingestion of foreign objects into the intake duct, from rough and semi-prepared airfields. On the upper photo, you can see the mounting tabs where it was screwed into the intake. also, it appears to be constructed in 4 segments. As a previous poster mentioned, it couldn't be installed with the 'Normandy' dust filters.

 

Hi Tail-Dragon,

 

Thanks a lot! I looked at photos of Tempests only. These photos explain everything.