Johnson Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 This really carries on from discussions on page 2 of the thread on Robin Old's Phantom F-4C (that I'm modelling); But rather than hijack that thread further, I thought that a new thread on the Mk.5 seats might be a good idea. So, I'm making progress on the seats in 1/72 (a bit of a challenge in itself). Taking the kit Mk.7 seats, retrospectively added to F-4Cs but they had Mk.5s in combat in 1966, I've added the metal shrouds to the parachute pack; As I was tidying up the top I wondered what should be there? There are few photos of Mk.5s around and I haven't found one that shows the top at all. But this graphic seems to show fabric at the top, was this parachute material? The drogue chute maybe? Any advice and guidance much appreciated! Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorfinn Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 (edited) I'm no expert, but I think it's just a poor rendering of the rubberized-canvas folding chute cover. Having part of the canopy itself exposed that way would be a seriously bad idea. Cheers Edited October 2, 2021 by thorfinn 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnson Posted October 2, 2021 Author Share Posted October 2, 2021 7 minutes ago, thorfinn said: I'm no expert, but I think it's just a poor rendering of the rubberized-canvas folding chute cover. Having the shroud itself exposed that way would be a seriously bad idea Thanks @thorfinn. I see what you mean. Any idea of the likely colour? Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorfinn Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 Usually a low-sheen, slightly olive-tinted grey. (Can't get the image to show, but here's the link. Hope it works. Not sure if it's a Mk. 5, but it's 'typical.') https://photos.app.goo.gl/VAbZxLa8h8nXB1ep6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnson Posted October 2, 2021 Author Share Posted October 2, 2021 Thanks Greg, yes it worked. It's a Mk.7 seat but I believe it was similar in most respects to the Mk.5 but the Mk.7 had the parachute in a fibreglass shell instead of the metal surrounds of the Mk.5. I'll paint the top with a patch of grey/olive as you suggest. As an aside, did the drogue and main chute come out (or up) out of the hole in the top? Just wondered! Cheers, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorfinn Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Johnson said: As an aside, did the drogue and main chute come out (or up) out of the hole in the top? Just wondered! Judging from the (admittedly-long-distance) videos I've seen, it appears so. I think any lower down there would be too much chance of getting lines tangled with the departing seat frame. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnson Posted October 2, 2021 Author Share Posted October 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, thorfinn said: Judging from the (admittedly-long-distance) videos I've seen, it appears so. I think any lower down there would be too much chance of getting lines tangled with the departing seat frame Yes, I agree. Many thanks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorfinn Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 Just as an FYI, there's a rather interesting video up on YouTube that begins with a pretty harrowing Phantom punch-out: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pjdP2t7Uarw&vl=en Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnson Posted October 2, 2021 Author Share Posted October 2, 2021 36 minutes ago, thorfinn said: Just as an FYI, there's a rather interesting video up on YouTube that begins with a pretty harrowing Phantom punch-out: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pjdP2t7Uarw&vl=en Indeed, scary stuff. Get out quick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 Just found this photo, it may help? John 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnson Posted October 2, 2021 Author Share Posted October 2, 2021 37 minutes ago, canberra kid said: Just found this photo, it may help? Good photo John, looks like a Mk.5. Whole load of straps I'll have to add. Just about see the canvas chute cover that Greg was referring to. Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 @canberra kidNice pic, John! You never cease to amaze me with your reference library! @Johnson Do these links help, if you don't already have them? Mike ,https://designer.home.xs4all.nl/models/skyray/martin-baker-p5-seat.htm https://martin-baker.com/products/mk5-ejection-seat/ https://www.ebay.com/itm/221398505818 https://www.flickr.com/photos/wbaiv/12868387783 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 10 hours ago, Johnson said: This really carries on from discussions on page 2 of the thread on Robin Old's Phantom F-4C (that I'm modelling); But rather than hijack that thread further, I thought that a new thread on the Mk.5 seats might be a good idea. So, I'm making progress on the seats in 1/72 (a bit of a challenge in itself). Taking the kit Mk.7 seats, retrospectively added to F-4Cs but they had Mk.5s in combat in 1966, I've added the metal shrouds to the parachute pack; As I was tidying up the top I wondered what should be there? There are few photos of Mk.5s around and I haven't found one that shows the top at all. But this graphic seems to show fabric at the top, was this parachute material? The drogue chute maybe? Any advice and guidance much appreciated! Cheers, Try This picture. Don't understand what you mean by "I've added the metal shrouds to the parachute pack." Your parachute pack is just a simple horseshoe shape with no additions. The Drogue chute compartment in the headbox was normally covered by four canvas flaps that were secured with cotton ties and the white drogue line attached to the drogue gun. the ties burst burst when the drogue gun fired and deployed the two drogue chutes to stabilise the seat, just aft of that was the scissor shackle which secured the drogues to the seat. Selwyn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnson Posted October 3, 2021 Author Share Posted October 3, 2021 Hi @Selwyn That's a great photo, just what I needed, thanks. A Mk.7 I think, but the top was similar (or the same) as a Mk.5 (experts correct me if I'm wrong). 10 hours ago, Selwyn said: Don't understand what you mean by "I've added the metal shrouds to the parachute pack." If I understand the seats correctly, the Mk.5 had black metal sides (or shrouds as I described them - maybe that was wrong) surrounding the parachute pack like so: (John's photo) Whereas the Mk.7 did away with the metal surround and the chute was contained in a fibreglass shell; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnson Posted October 3, 2021 Author Share Posted October 3, 2021 18 hours ago, 72modeler said: Do these links help, if you don't already have them? Hi Mike @72modeler, Great links, thanks! As I'm discovering in my Phantom ejection seat learning curve, the Mk.5 MB seat seems to have been made for a variety of planes and had differences. These have been covered to a degree in the Need some help with which kit for Robin Olds F-4C thread. But modellers wanting a Mk.5 seat need to check what's correct for their plane carefully. PS - That's an amazing escape from the Douglas F4D Skyray in your first link! Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Johnson said: Hi @Selwyn That's a great photo, just what I needed, thanks. A Mk.7 I think, but the top was similar (or the same) as a Mk.5 (experts correct me if I'm wrong). If I understand the seats correctly, the Mk.5 had black metal sides (or shrouds as I described them - maybe that was wrong) surrounding the parachute pack like so: (John's photo) Whereas the Mk.7 did away with the metal surround and the chute was contained in a fibreglass shell; What you describe as a shroud is not a seperate item, its just part of the seat structure. Thats what confused me. Selwyn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles87 Posted Tuesday at 07:29 Share Posted Tuesday at 07:29 A late addition to this thread. I have a Tamiya 1/32 Phantom which is destined to become Robin Olds’ F-4C and requires a MB H5 seat. There are now some excellent 1/32 seats available from a company called Sparkit which produce two MB H5s, early and late versions. The most obvious visible difference is in the back pad which is lower on the late version, but I cannot find a photo of Olds’ machine which shows the seat back low enough to determine which version it is. If anyone has such a photo or definitive information I will be eternally grateful. TIA. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XV571 Posted Tuesday at 23:47 Share Posted Tuesday at 23:47 Hi John, Strictly speaking neither of the Sparkit seats is applicable for a F-4C. The ones they sell are for US Navy Phantoms. These have a different system for the Personal Survival Packs and how they provide emergency oxygen to the crew during and after ejection compared to the Air Force version. The USN seat has the oxygen system in the bottom seat cushion and there is a hose connector situated in the rear right of the seat that the crew connect to. The bottom cushion also has a pressure gauge in the forward left corner. The USAF use a different system which has the emergency oxygen in a bottle located in a cut out section of the back pad. You can see the bottle in the photo of the Mk7 seat above (the bright green cylinder). There is also no contents gauge in the bottom cushion so you'd have to remove that from the seat. If you're not too bothered by the connector version and the BuNo effectivity is correct, I'd go for the early seat. Sparkit state their late seat was used from BuNo 153005 which was a F-4B-26-MC. Col. Old's Bolo mount 63-7680 is a F-4C-21-MC and Scat XXVII 64-0890 is a F-4C-24-MC so it would be more appropriate for the earlier production blocks whichever aircraft you plan to build. HTH, Jonathan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles87 Posted yesterday at 16:51 Share Posted yesterday at 16:51 Thanks a lot Jonathan @XV571 that’s very helpful. My initial instinct was to go for the late version because I cannot find a decent photo of a -4C of that period showing the back/lumbar pad, but I’ll lake your advice. I have sent an email to Sparkit asking for any information they have so we’ll see what turns up. Perhaps they will come up with a USAF version soon, my -4C has been in planning for several years now and I already have several aftermarket bits and pieces so I could wait a little longer for a really good seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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