Lindsey C Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 Hi Guys, Included in 1:72 technical stencils I have for Spitfire & Hurricane are stencils for propeller blades. Dehavilland, Rotol etc. I have applied some to a Spitfire Dehavilland Props blades to see if it can be done. They are mighty small and getting the orientation right is fiddly! They look nice. I am wondering however, should they be there at all? I have yet to see a period image that shows them. You guys may know having seen many more images and read far more than me on the subject. Any help appreciated, Regards, Lindsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnAndersen Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 I would not bother. Most period photos do not show these, so why should you, especially in 1/72? My own rule for stencil decals is that if it can be seen on the model from a distance of 1 m (3 feet), it probably will be applied. If not, well... /Finn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B (Sc) Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 It does seem to vary quite a lot. As Finn said they don't show up on many photos of the BoB period. I suspect the identification marks were carried at the roots. Also, since adjustable pitch propellers and removable blades were fairly new to the maintainers and riggers, with only two or perhaps tree types around, perhaps minimal ident info was needed. Only ref numbers so a blade's history was trackable. As time went on and so many more blade and prop boss types appeared, stencilling clearly to ensure correct fit, even in rushed circumstances would have been more important. Later on in the war the stencils did seem to be more obvious. American practice of easily read detailed blade stencils may have helped change British habits too? Possibly during the BoB there was a bit more rush and less interest in detail recording, at times, so stencils would not have been foremost in the minds. John B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsey C Posted October 1, 2021 Author Share Posted October 1, 2021 (edited) I think you are right guys. Thanks for the help 👌 I will leave this Dehavilland Prop with them on (It's over varnished with Matt Enamel now 🤣) and looks impressive. I will omit them on rest of RAF BoB build but use them on the Luftwaffe aircraft. Regards, Lindsey Edited October 1, 2021 by Lindsey C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsey C Posted October 20, 2021 Author Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) On 10/1/2021 at 11:59 AM, FinnAndersen said: My own rule for stencil decals is that if it can be seen on the model from a distance of 1 m (3 feet), it probably will be applied. If not, well... Wow, applying other Techmod Stencil's to Kiwi II. Even the smallest can be clearly read with my 10x magnifying glass and they have the correct 'stencil' typeface! I completely understand where you are coming from @FinnAndersen but I think they look great. I know most will not notice them but I know they are there! Any tiny pixie wandering around the display cabinet is going to be seriously impressed. Plus I kind of enjoy the light stress of applying something the size of a good pinhead. Orientation & position is everything!😱 I can see them with my standard reading glasses and while they cannot be read, they 'look right' when in the right places 🙂 Mind you, looking through a 10x magnifying glass shows up every imperfection and the tiniest dust specs caught in paint on the model surface. The glass will only be used for tiny stencils forthwith! Out of interest guys, what does the 'M' stencil designate or mean on an RAF aircraft of the period? Regards, Lindsey Edited October 20, 2021 by Lindsey C 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B (Sc) Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 The quality of some modern decal printing is astonishing. Like you, I have used magnifying glasses to read some of these, and many actually do have the correct wordings. In older style, small stencils ,tended to have that nonsense writing 'lori ipsos etc.....'' I think /M after a serial indicates a maintenance airframe, withdrawn from active use and for training or 'reduce to produce' spares only. Is that what you meant? John B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Do not get lost in detail: More important is to set the stencils in the correct position, and turn them to the correct position. Most times: To read: When one blade is to the right and horizontal. But, there are also some others too! Do you have an idea what is written on it? Happy modelling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsey C Posted October 21, 2021 Author Share Posted October 21, 2021 9 hours ago, John B (Sc) said: I think /M after a serial indicates a maintenance airframe, withdrawn from active use and for training or 'reduce to produce' spares only. Is that what you meant? These are just a single capital letter 'M'. They occur singly (no associated serial) on the fuselage just above the tail wheel, on the rudder, flaps, ailerons (lower surface) and elevators (lower surface). I see them on many actual spitfires in museums at present. Period photography has not been close enough or high enough resolution for me to see them on actual BoB Spitfires. Regards, Lindsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 13 hours ago, Lindsey C said: These are just a single capital letter 'M'. They occur singly (no associated serial) on the fuselage just above the tail wheel, on the rudder, flaps, ailerons (lower surface) and elevators (lower surface). I see them on many actual spitfires in museums at present. Period photography has not been close enough or high enough resolution for me to see them on actual BoB Spitfires. Regards, Lindsey Without a photo of your capital M, I can't be certain, but your description of the locations where the markings are found makes me think it's not an M and it's not a single letter. British military aircraft from late WW I to WW II carried electrical earth bonding markings on individual components that were required to be electrically bonded (ie hard wired) to the main airframe, these markings were on the starboard or lower surface of the component an consisted of the letters W T 2 inches high, and often inside circles or diagonally split square thus These markings were often accompanied by a DTD code indicating the paint finishing scheme used on the component. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 All I have on British WW2 prop markings: Chris 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsey C Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 No @Dave Swindell, It is not the W/T markings. Just a single M. See them on the flaps below 'DTD 517 S'. Above rear wheel (both sides) Also on the access panels on lower rear stabilizers. There are others elsewhere. Regards, Lindsey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303sqn Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 S refers to the paint being Type S. C means Cellon, the manufacturer of nitrocellulose dope used on the fabric covered parts. M, only a guess, might mean maintenance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 A thought; those M are on moveable or removable panels. Might they be for to tell airframe maintenance crew 'this is the panel to remove for routine maintenance'? On my 1930 Austin 7 some certain parts of the running gear has or had an O or a G stamped or engraved on it to say 'this is to be Oiled' or 'this is to be Greased' 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 19 hours ago, Lindsey C said: There are others elsewhere. Have you got examples of this stencil on wartime photo's or original recovered wreckage, ie primary contemporary evidence of it's use at that time? The positions and size of the stencil makes it difficult to see, I've just had a quick scan through several books including the two Wingleader ones on the Mk.I and Mk.V, I can't spot any sign of it (appreciate that absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, hence the question). The photo's you've posted are of P9444 in the Science Museum, which I believe was painted in this scheme in 1961 shortly before it went to Kensington R6915 at the IWM also has the M stencils in similar but not identical positions, this went to the IWM in it's last service paint scheme and hasn't been repainted since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsey C Posted October 23, 2021 Author Share Posted October 23, 2021 No I have no imagery 😪 I am just going by the stencil instructions of TechMod and Eduard (1:48) plus museum aircraft for Mk1a's. Regards, Lindsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneEighthBit Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 Isn't the M where the modification data plates are? At least on the Horsa the plates for each part are often external and doped over with a large red M on top of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishplanebeer Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 I have absolutely no new evidence to add but I tend to agree with Black Knight as the letter M seems to be on panels/areas that can be removed (for inspection/maintenance) and would therefore prevent 'erks' from hacking away at panels that were supposed to be permanently fixed to the airframe. Makes sense bearing in mind that the maintenance crews would not have an in-depth knowledge of the construction of the airframe so such a visual clue would be quite useful to them. Regards Colin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Line Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 It was not the practise of dH to have blade information stencils during 1940.Blade identification markings were situated on the base of the blade as shown in the example below. Link for more photos below: https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/need-help-identifying-ww2-propeller-blade-halifax.46240/ To facilitate the identification of propeller blades stencils were applied to the front faces by dH during late 1945. American built Hamilton Standard blades used on import aircraft and on some British–built aircraft, did carry stencils although originally at least these could be located on the lower rear face of the blade rather than on the front face. Initially at least, they were of a rather discreet style. Curtiss blades used appear to have retained their standard US stencilling throughout. As far as Rotol blades are concerned, identification markings were applied to the blade adapter in a similar fashion to dH types. Blade markings in the shape of coloured disks identifying wood/covering type were applied to the lower blade faces seemingly from 1941/1942 although the blade drawing numbers were not shown until later. The style and substance of the markings developed through the war, during which the colour codings for the blade types were changed at least once. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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