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Skyraider aew question


bigbadbadge
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Hi all

I have been looking online without any joy for Skyraider AEW aircraft aboard HMS Centaur.  I am keen to model one and have tge sword kit. All I can find are those from other Royal Navy carriers.   

Does anyone have any info  serial numbers/codes of and HMS Centaur aircraft they can assist me with please. My Dad was onboard from 1959 and remembers the Skyraiders and when I show him various FAA aircraft I have modelled always mentions them so I would like to build one.

 

Thanks in advance

Chris 

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Chris,

 

Here is a link to the serials of all Skyraider AEW1's:

http://joebaugher.com/usattack/newa1_24.html

 

Here is a link and some text from a monograph on FAA AEW1s:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/392991190020

 

I could not find any photos of Centaur's Skyraiders in any of my references; all I came up with was a mention that four AEW1's from D flight of No. 849 Squadron were assigned to her in 1959. I did find a photo of a D Flight AEW1 on HMS Bulwark, and it had a 'D' on both sides of the cowling, a two-digit modex (29) on the front of the landing gear strut fairing as well as the rear fuselage and a 'B' on the fin- I'm assuming for Bulwark? Perhaps when embarked on Centaur, she had a 'C' on the fin? Best I can do from my references- sorry!

Mike

Edited by 72modeler
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Chris,

 

A quick browse in my Air Britain FAA Fixed Wing since 1946, lists WV105 426/C of 849D Squadron as being shipped to the UK in Centaur after hydraulic failure to Fleetlands in Gosport for repairs. Apparently the four of D flight were only on Centaur for a few months: Jan to Apr 59.

 

Mike

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2 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Chris,

 

Here is a link to the serials of all Skyraider AEW1's:

http://joebaugher.com/usattack/newa1_24.html

 

Here is a link and some text from a monograph on FAA AEW1s:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/392991190020

 

I could not find any photos of Centaur's Skyraiders in any of my references; all I came up with was a mention that four AEW1's from D flight of No. 849 Squadron were assigned to her in 1959. I did find a photo of a D Flight AEW1 on HMS Bulwark, and it had a 'D' on both sides of the cowling, a two-digit modex (29) on the front of the landing gear strut fairing as well as the rear fuselage and a 'B' on the fin- I'm assuming for Bulwark? Perhaps when embarked on Centaur, she had a 'C' on the fin? Best I can do from my references- sorry!

Mike

Thanks Mike  that's great info and thanks for the links, I will read through the top one,  I can't afford the book though unfortunately,  but thank you for providing those. The info does make things a lot easier and is very helpful and yes the change of ship designation letter makes perfect sense. 

 

2 hours ago, mick b said:

Chris,

 

A quick browse in my Air Britain FAA Fixed Wing since 1946, lists WV105 426/C of 849D Squadron as being shipped to the UK in Centaur after hydraulic failure to Fleetlands in Gosport for repairs. Apparently the four of D flight were only on Centaur for a few months: Jan to Apr 59.

 

Mike

Thanks  Mike too  again very helpful indeed.  I certainly now have something to go on . 

 

Thank you both very much  for taking the time to help.

Chris

 

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1 hour ago, bigbadbadge said:

I can't afford the book though unfortunately,

It's a British publication, and pretty niche,  so likely available used, (a check shows it seems to be expensive though but doesn't mean you won't find one, I got mine from the Aviation Bookshop in Tunbridge Wells) 

 I have a copy, but not sure where I filed it, it's like high quality  magazine.  If you get stuck use the @  tag to notify me and I'll try to find it and see if it has any HMS Centaur info.

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9 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

It's a British publication, and pretty niche,  so likely available used, (a check shows it seems to be expensive though but doesn't mean you won't find one, I got mine from the Aviation Bookshop in Tunbridge Wells) 

 I have a copy, but not sure where I filed it, it's like high quality  magazine.  If you get stuck use the @  tag to notify me and I'll try to find it and see if it has any HMS Centaur info.

Thanks Troy, very kind of you.  I will see if I can find anything, I have borrowed a book from a mate he dropped off this morning, book is Fly Navy, Aircraft of the Fleet Air Arm since 1945  this has a couple of pages and does state that D flight Aircraft would have been on HMS Centaur as well as HMS Albion and Bulwark.

Amazingly it has a list of serial codes for all too. 

 

Thanks again Troy, very much appreciated 

Chris

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From the monograph referred to by Mike, the flight markings comprised a 'red dragon' motif (originating from the Hong Kong Auxiliary Air Force) painted onto the white Flight letter "D" on the cowling of each aircraft, the carrier letter ("C") towards the top of the fin in white, the white three-digit code aft of the fuselage roundel and (last two digits only) on the undercarriage door.  Serials were also in white, the underwing ones reading from outboard to inboard (except for WT097, which had them reading from inboard!).  The aircraft allocated to D Flight when embarked in Centaur (January-June 1959) were WV105 (426/C), which suffered hydraulic failure and subsequent damage on 11/2/1959 and was replaced by WT967 (same code), WV106 (427/C), WV178 (428/C) and WT097 (429/C).  The monograph includes a photo of WV106 in July 1959, still coded 427/C.

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In the monograph "A History of the Douglas Skyraider AEW.1", there are 2 photos of 849D aircraft with the fin code "C". They are WV967/422 no "D" on the cowl and XV106/427 with "D" on the cowl.

 

Jun in Tokyo

https://www.flickr.com/photos/horaburo/albums

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1 hour ago, Our Ned said:

From the monograph referred to by Mike, the flight markings comprised a 'red dragon' motif (originating from the Hong Kong Auxiliary Air Force) painted onto the white Flight letter "D" on the cowling of each aircraft, the carrier letter ("C") towards the top of the fin in white, the white three-digit code aft of the fuselage roundel and (last two digits only) on the undercarriage door.  Serials were also in white, the underwing ones reading from outboard to inboard (except for WT097, which had them reading from inboard!).  The aircraft allocated to D Flight when embarked in Centaur (January-June 1959) were WV105 (426/C), which suffered hydraulic failure and subsequent damage on 11/2/1959 and was replaced by WT967 (same code), WV106 (427/C), WV178 (428/C) and WT097 (429/C).  The monograph includes a photo of WV106 in July 1959, still coded 427/C.

Wow thanks Ned, that's very very handy indeed,  I  will look at those and the info re the D and the Dragon Motif too. Most helpful thank you.

 

1 hour ago, Junchan said:

In the monograph "A History of the Douglas Skyraider AEW.1", there are 2 photos of 849D aircraft with the fin code "C". They are WV967/422 no "D" on the cowl and XV106/427 with "D" on the cowl.

 

Jun in Tokyo

https://www.flickr.com/photos/horaburo/albums

Thanks Jun again very helpful and interesting re the lack of a D too.  I have been unable to access the link at the moment, but will try again later.

 

Thanks guys

All of you have provided some really fantastic info, I am really grateful.

Chris

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For photos of the "red dragon" on the "D" on the cowling, see https://skyraider.org/skyassn/memberpics/cowell/cowell.htm - although taken on Bulwark, the marking didn't change much, if at all.

 

The photo of WV967 to which Jun referred shows the aircraft wearing code 442, a "C" Flight code (not 422), albeit still carrying a C carrier letter, but it was taken after the Skyraiders had left Centaur and WV967 had been transferred to "C" Flight.

Edited by Our Ned
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2 hours ago, Our Ned said:

From the monograph referred to by Mike, the flight markings comprised a 'red dragon' motif (originating from the Hong Kong Auxiliary Air Force) painted onto the white Flight letter "D" on the cowling of each aircraft,

I couldn't tell what was painted on the inside of the 'D' on the cowing in the photo, so that's why I didn't mention it. Thanks for the information, and I'm sure Chris does, too!

Mike

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3 hours ago, Our Ned said:

From the monograph referred to by Mike, the flight markings comprised a 'red dragon' motif (originating from the Hong Kong Auxiliary Air Force) painted onto the white Flight letter "D" on the cowling of each aircraft, the carrier letter ("C") towards the top of the fin in white, the white three-digit code aft of the fuselage roundel and (last two digits only) on the undercarriage door.  Serials were also in white, the underwing ones reading from outboard to inboard (except for WT097, which had them reading from inboard!).  The aircraft allocated to D Flight when embarked in Centaur (January-June 1959) were WV105 (426/C), which suffered hydraulic failure and subsequent damage on 11/2/1959 and was replaced by WT967 (same code), WV106 (427/C), WV178 (428/C) and WT097 (429/C).  The monograph includes a photo of WV106 in July 1959, still coded 427/C.

Wow thanks Ned, that's very very handy indeed,  I  will look at those and the info re the D and the Dragon Motif too. Most helpful thank you.

 

2 hours ago, Junchan said:

In the monograph "A History of the Douglas Skyraider AEW.1", there are 2 photos of 849D aircraft with the fin code "C". They are WV967/422 no "D" on the cowl and XV106/427 with "D" on the cowl.

 

Jun in Tokyo

https://www.flickr.com/photos/horaburo/albums

Thanks Jun again very helpful and interesting re the lack of a D too.  I have been unable to access the link at the moment, but will try again later.

 

20 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

I couldn't tell what was painted on the inside of the 'D' on the cowing in the photo, so that's why I didn't mention it. Thanks for the information, and I'm sure Chris does, too!

Mike

 

Very grateful   Thanks Mike  I will take some time to digest and do some searching hopefully this weekend so I can make a start on the build. 

They must have impressed my Dad when he saw them as no matter what model I show him when he comes round he mentions the Skyraiders.   I thought it's about time I built one and see what he says!!!   So far a Seahawk and Sea Vixen FAW.1 from HMS Centaur built, got the Skyraider, Gannet and Sea Venom to go now.

 

Thanks guys

All of you have provided some really fantastic info, I am really grateful.

Chris

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1 hour ago, Our Ned said:

For photos of the "red dragon" on the "D" on the cowling, see https://skyraider.org/skyassn/memberpics/cowell/cowell.htm - although taken on Bulwark, the marking didn't change much, if at all.

 

The photo of WV967 to which Jun referred shows the aircraft with wearing code 442, a "C" Flight code (not 422), albeit still carrying a C carrier letter, but was taken after the Skyraiders had left Centaur and WV967 had been transferred to "C" Flight.

Thanks again Ned  what a cracking link  very helpful.  I did try and reply a while ago but when submitted it froze then could not get onto BM, strange.  

I really appreciate all your and the others help.

Thank you.

Chris

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17 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

I have been unable to access the link at the moment, but will try again later.

Chris,

 

If you go to Jun's website and enter Skyraider AEW in the Photos, people, or groups window, there are two color photos of 'D' Flight WV126, that has the 'D' on the cowing, a 'C' on the fin, and the modex 427 on the fuselage; it also has what appears to be a '7' on the front of the landing gear fairing. See what you think. Went through all his albums with no success, and then thought to use the search feature. Hope this helps!

Mike

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1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

Chris,

 

If you go to Jun's website and enter Skyraider AEW in the Photos, people, or groups window, there are two color photos of 'D' Flight WV126, that has the 'D' on the cowing, a 'C' on the fin, and the modex 427 on the fuselage; it also has what appears to be a '7' on the front of the landing gear fairing. See what you think. Went through all his albums with no success, and then thought to use the search feature. Hope this helps!

Mike

Brilliant thanks Mike, I tried last night but I couldn't access,  poss my WiFi and have been working since 0530 this morning so not had a chance today  but will check out .

 

Chris

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The photos of WV106 on Jun's website are mostly of the aircraft on displayin a museum, well after it had been withdrawn from service.  Although the markings look reasonably accurate, it had served in other unit(s) after its time in Centaur, and had been repainted to match i5ts 1959 appearance.

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Thanks Ned, I will use for reference along with others as and will see what serials I can cobble together from my decals  I think I should be okay for any of the four serials you kindly provided.  Just pushing my FAA Anson a bit further along and I  can look at start.

Chris

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The lack of photos of Centaur with Skyraiders is because they didn't serve aboard her for very long.  This was due to the ship's commitments and the timing of her commissions, first commission Jul 54 - May 56, second Sep 58 - Apr 59.

From what I can establish, Skyraider AEW.1s only embarked on Centaur from January to April 1959, with 849 Sqn D Flt.

WV106 was stored at Culdrose after service and appears in photos as 416-C (I reckon a corruption of 416-CU, 849 Sqn HQs Flt).  It became 427-C with the the D Flt and dragon nose cowling markings re-applied while on display at Flambards Cornwall Aeropark.

 

Squadrons of the Fleet Air Arm gives WT097 427-C as a Skyraider serving on Centaur.

 

 

Edited by 71chally
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3 hours ago, Our Ned said:

Note that RN Skyraiders didn't all have the same size underwing serials!

 

That's interesting, any idea of the sizes used and would the differences be specific to aircraft based on certain ships/bases?

 

I've got a build stalled, as I'm trying to ascertain the sizes for WT987 during Suez .

 

TIA

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Tony C said:

 

That's interesting, any idea of the sizes used and would the differences be specific to aircraft based on certain ships/bases?

 

I've got a build stalled, as I'm trying to ascertain the sizes for WT987 during Suez .

 

TIA

 

 

There's this, from here 

Flickr Search

 

Douglas Skyraider AEW1 WT987

 

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I don't know the actual sizes, but could be 48".  Skyraider AEW.1s were delivered with a smaller size underwing serial (36" ?) whereby all of it fitted on the folding portion of the wing, the later serial was the same height as the roundel and only featured four figures (unless a 1 was used! eg WV184) on the folding part.  It looks like not all of them got a repaint.

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5 hours ago, Our Ned said:

Note that RN Skyraiders didn't all have the same size underwing serials!

Thanks Ned, very interesting,  gonna have a good look though the photos and make lots of notes!!!

 

2 hours ago, 71chally said:

The lack of photos of Centaur with Skyraiders is because they didn't serve aboard her for very long.  This was due to the ship's commitments and the timing of her commissions, first commission Jul 54 - May 56, second Sep 58 - Apr 59.

From what I can establish, Skyraider AEW.1s only embarked on Centaur from January to April 1959, with 849 Sqn D Flt.

WV106 was stored at Culdrose after service and appears in photos as 416-C (I reckon a corruption of 416-CU, 849 Sqn HQs Flt).  It became 427-C with the the D Flt and dragon nose cowling markings re-applied while on display at Flambards Cornwall Aeropark.

 

Squadrons of the Fleet Air Arm gives WT097 427-C as a Skyraider serving on Centaur.

 

 

Thanks James, interesting re WV106 and thanks for pointing out, I will be careful there  this is quite a minefield!!!

Thanks guys for taking the time to post.

Chris

 

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