Lancaster B.III in to B.VII?

[robstopper]

Hi all,

 

I recently bought an Airfix Lancaster B.III kit, and the decals to make a version of "Just Jane". Of course, she is a mk.VII, with a few minor differences.

 

I'm not too worried about the slightly different rear gun turret or the further-forward mid-upper turret, but it would be nice to be able to fit the radome for the H2S. I should have looked for the Airfix B.1 (FE) kit instead as that includes it!

 

What are my options, if any?

[fishplanebeer]

See if Airfix still have the H2S randome as an available spare.

 

Alternatively some one may have it as a spare from their own build so put a request in the 'wanted' section.

 

Regards

Colin.

[The wooksta V2.0]

You'll also need the larger tropical intakes for the engines - the B.VIIs were intended for Tiger Force.

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, robstopper said:

I recently bought an Airfix Lancaster B.III kit,

this one? 

 

1 hour ago, robstopper said:

I'm not too worried about the slightly different rear gun turret or the further-forward mid-upper turret, but it would be nice to be able to fit the radome for the H2S.

?????  sprue shots show H2S radome next to canopy. 

 

from https://www.super-hobby.com/products/Avro-Lancaster-B.1-B-III.html

 

 

[robstopper]

Well, consider my lesson learnt.....

 

Always open the box and check the contents for any bonus bits you weren't expecting 😆

 

That is indeed the kit i bought. I only checked the instructions for "options", never occurred to me to check the actual sprues. Ta very much for the heads-up! 👏👏👏

[fishplanebeer]

Just curious, I have a few books and scale plans of the Lanc but they don't mention the B.VII having different/larger intakes for their Merlin 24's so does any one have any pics/references showing the difference please?

 

I've visited 'Just Jane' NX611 and must admit I didn't notice anything different about them at the time although to be honest I was more interested in getting inside and enjoying the ride!

 

Regards

Colin.

[fishplanebeer]

Just to add that the references I have suggest that the B.VII's, all built by Austin, were essentially B.1's with the new dorsal turret plus Merlin 24's and that from August 1945 they were manufactured with tropicalised engines for Far East operations ('Tiger Force') with these then becoming B.VII/FE's. Earlier examples built between April and August were required to be converted to FE standard but not sure if this was still required after VJ Day and whether it still applied to those delivered after this date as well?

 

I've no idea what the specifics were of the 'tropicalisation' or whether 'Just Jane' has them or not but some B.I's were also similarly modified for 'Tiger Force' as well.

 

Regards

Colin.

Edited September 27, 2021 by fishplanebeer

[dogsbody]

I'm probably way off with this, but I think the B.VII engine cowlings may have looked like the ones on this post-war Lancastrian.

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

[fishplanebeer]

That's a good thought although the 'Just Jane' intakes just don't seem to be the same as these, always assuming she was tropicalised of course.

 

The fact that some B.I's were also tropicalised into the FE spec has me even more confused as these would have had the revised intakes as well, if they were fitted, but I can't find any specific reference or photos/drawings confirming the change in intake shape for any FE Lanc.

 

Regards

Colin.

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

Austin built Lancaster mark VII production began in April 1945, with 10 built, then 12 in May and 34 in June, production finished in December, serials, 38 from NX611 to NX648, 43 from NX661 to NX703, 44 from NX715 to NX758, 25 from NX770 to NX794, 30 from RT670 to RT699, total 180.

 

From a group of mid 1945 memos on aircraft production, extracts from Lancaster section
May 1945 (hole punched in page where date is), April Lancasters signalled from Austins are 4 mark I and 10 mark VII with with Merlin 22, 1 mark VII with Merlin 24.
11 June 1945, Amend last month's Austin return to read 10 mark VII with Merlin 24 temperate sets and 5 mark I with Merlin 22.  No tropical sets have been fitted.
9 July 1945 of the 34 mark VII signalled from Austins (in June) 28 were fitted with temperate sets and 6 tropical (Merlin 24).  All future aircraft will be fitted with Merlin 24 tropical sets
27 August 1945, Austin continuing to fit tropical sets of Merlin 24.

 

So according to the memos, the first 22 mark VII were non tropical as built, and probably the first 50, so to NX672.  With Just Jane of course being NX611.  The lists in Avro Lancaster by Harry Holmes has all NX serials as delivered to Far East Standard, Merlin 24, their one line histories have some of the early aircraft serving in the Near and Middle East.  The list of RT serials has 30 with Merlin 24, no mention of Far East, their one line histories suggest they all stayed in Europe.

 

Some additional engine information.  When it comes to transport aircraft production in 1945 some were reported as civil but most as military and there are gaps in the civil production reports I have.  It also does not help the first Lancastrian I in February 1945 is reported as a Lancaster Ic.

 

Yorks came in VIP, Passenger, LRF (Long Range Freighter) and PCF (Passenger Cum Freighter) versions.  To end May 1945 official military production was 5 VIP, 20 Passenger, 39 LRF, 6 PCF, total 70, plus 1 civil type under a Ministry of Supply contract, by end July the figures were 5, 20, 42, 7 and 3.  Lancastrian I production was under civil, 8 by end May 1945, 15 by end July.

 

May 1945, all Lancastrians to date fitted with Merlin 24 temperate.  Of total York I delivered to date, 63 were fitted with Merlin 22, 6 with Merlin 24 (5 temperate, 1 tropical).  The York PCF signalled had Merlin 24 temperate.  3 BOAC York delivered to AST Hamble have Merlin 24 tropical.
June 1945, All military type York to be fitted with temperate Merlin 24, BOAC with tropical Merlin 24.  Lancastrians had temperate Merlin 24.
July 1945, York Military Temperate Merlin 24, York BOAC Tropical Merlin 24, Lancastrian Temperate Merlin 24.

 

The York contract summary card notes 4 LV serials prototypes, 200 MW serials, 100 PE serials and 150 TJ serials, with the TJ serials having Merlin 22.  It looks like the original intention was Merlin XX, then Merlin 24.  92 of the PE and all the TJ serials were cancelled.  The summary of the RAF orders is 4 prototypes, 5 VIP, 5 BOAC, 20 FCP (Freighter Cum Passenger), 64 PCF, 114 LRF.  So 208 production examples out of 252 production Yorks, 45 of which officially under civil contracts.  Of course going through the production reports gives 5 VIP, 20 Passenger, 114 LRF, 68 PCF, 39 MoS Civil, 5 Private Venture Civil and 1 MoS PCF.  Shall we say the accounting system was suffering from the return of official civil production and who the aircraft were for?

 

RAF Lancastrians were 2 mark 1 (VH737 ex PD176) and VH742, plus 33 mark 2 and 8 mark 4.  There were 21 civil mark 1 and 18 mark 3.

 

Merlin 22 production had ended in October 1944, Tropical Merlin 24 had 8 built in April 1945, then 27 in October and 40 in November and 224 in December, with production continuing  into 1946.  Not quite a match to reports of T.24 being fitted in mid 1945.

[fishplanebeer]

Geoffrey,

 

Wonderful details so many thanks for this as it gives a pretty comprehensive account of the tropicalisation of the B.VII's. Would still love to know what the tropical sets looked like and entailed, as in did they require an intake of different design/shape to be fitted, as I can't spot any differences between a standard B.VII and its tropicalised brother in the photos I have?

 

Regards

Colin.

[Graham Boak]

The tropical intake is deeper and somewhat squarer.  It does take a bit of peering at it to make it out.  There was a booklet published a few years back on postwar Lancasters, Lincolns and (maybe?) Shackletons - Neil Robinson and friends?

[Mancunian airman]

Dont get hung up on the intake of the engines, in reality they will not impact on the look of the aircraft.

I have a spare H2s blister should you want one  . . .

Ian

[robstopper]

Its only 1/72 scale, so i wasn't going to be in the least hung up about intake sizes 😆😆😆

 

Thanks for the offer of the spare, much appreciated. Checked the actual box contents last night, and even though it wasnt shown on the instructions as an optional piece, it is on the clear part sprue. Problems solved!

[fishplanebeer]

Many thanks to everyone for clarifying.

 

Regards

Colin.

[Max Headroom]

16 hours ago, dogsbody said:

I'm probably way off with this, but I think the B.VII engine cowlings may have looked like the ones on this post-war Lancastrian.

 

Chris

That photo has been posted here before and the conclusion was that those nacelles are a one off for that machine. The cheek intakes are missing and instead there is a scoop inside the nacelle itself.

 

Trevor

[robstopper]

So, work is progressing well on the build. Fit and finish has generally been excellent, with just a touch of filler required on the fuselage halves just aft of the bomb bay, but that may have been down to my assembly of them. Very impressed so far.

 

Until I got to the bomb bay doors last night 😡

 

Whether they are warped or not, I don't know, but they just won't fit properly in my preferred "closed" position. Even "open", they aren't a great fit....and the instructions seem to have them handed incorrectly too. But, it seems the best option to fit them opened up.

 

So, I have ordered the accompanying bomb resupply kit, and will use that to maximise the effect of having to have the bomb bay open. At least I can then replicate some of the shots I got up at East Kirkby last month!

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by robstopper

[WV908]

Hi @robstopper

 

There is a lot to consider when building NX611 from the Airfix B.III

Main points of note from the nose back are;

 

Larger bomb aimer blister

Oval bomb aimer panel

Rebecca aerials 

Washer jets need to be spaced further apart (Airfix copied a Mk.10 for this which has them set narrower)

Observation bubble on starboard side only

Lincoln style tall Astrodome 

No loop aerial or corresponding bulged canopy panel

All fuselage windows blanked out bar those at wing l/e

Paddle blade props

Treaded mainwheels

Starboard side fuselage heating vent 

Bomb bay doors require cutouts for lifeboat attachment 

Empty FN50 turret cupola fitted in the standard position for a 250CE (this is roughly where the rear upper fuselage hatch is)

H2S dish and radome fitted (yes the equipment is still in there) 

Airbus A3XX nosewheel fitted as a tailwheel

FN82 (twin 50 cal) rear turret fitted.

 

Of these, everything is kit supplied / modifiable bar the Lincoln Astrodome, treaded mainwheels and heating vent. Both blackbird models and Freightdog produce sets with the wheels and heating vent. The Freightdog set is more expensive as it includes the lifeboat but it does have the fuselage blank required for the old mid-upper turret position.

 

For the Lincoln Astrodome you can either ask the owner of Blackbird models if he has any spares from his Lincoln conversion or try and get one from the Revell 1/72 Lanc. I did the latter. 

 

As others have said, NX611 has tropical radiators (PA474 does too) - it's not very noticeable in 1/72 so not worth worrying about as it's a lot of effort to modify them for a tiny difference. Interestingly the only Lanc kit that has ever been produced with the tropical radiators is the 1/32 HKM kit.

 

As always your best source of info is NX611 herself and photos of her, but here is my build from a few years ago with all the above mods;

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

  WV908

[robstopper]

So I have made good progress over recent weeks, and she is heading for completion.

 

I have done my best to make a reasonable facsimile of Jane, but either through lack of skills, dedication or the parts to do so, didn't include the full list of WV908's list of changes above. I've got as close to it as I'm able to though.

 

The biggest omission is the position of the top turret, as its in standard B.III position, not the further forward B.VII. I didn't fancy trying to fill the kit hole, and then try and accurately form the right size and location for it. I figured it was better for my skills to leave it as B.III, although I was mildly kicking myself last night as it looks like the kit included a blanking plate for the top turret - I still would have had issues forming the new hole, however.

 

I just have the bombload and support vehicles to make from the Airfix Resupply kit to make, and then she'll be done. As Jane is kept clean, I won't bother with any weathering.

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by robstopper
large pics not thumbnails

[robstopper]

I think I'll need to add the fin flash decals too - they weren't present on my Bomber County photoshoot earlier this year, hence me not applying them here. But, it looks a bit odd without them, and they seem to be present on most pictures from an earlier time that Google chucks up.

[WV908]

Hi Rob,

  Your NX611 looks fantastic

 

It's nice to see a contrast to mine, which was built to represent her prior to the repaint, all faded and battered. I chose to build her that way as I have a few patches of her old fabric from when she was stripped down for repaint. 

 

For future reference with moving turret locations - I used the supplied turret blank to mark out the new position, cut the new hole slightly too small and then filed it until the turret fitted snugly.

 

If you wish to build a Canadian Mk.10 in the future, all except the first built (Ruhr Express) had this modified turret position. 

 

As typical as life is, a late Lancaster conversion set has been just released about a week ago with the Lincoln Astrodome.

 

Happy modelling! 

 

WV908 

[robstopper]

Yeh, thats sods law for you! 😆 If I hadn't just followed the instructions, and looked in the box more closely to see they had a multitude of build options unlisted on the instructions, i may have positioned the turret correctly. Still, as it is, it's "inspired by", rather than "replica of" 😁

 

I tried to model her as she was on my photo session....albeit not in clipped-wing low-level LB.III format 🤣🤣 thanks for the advice you gave me, steered me in the right direction.

 

This was an uncommonly involved and large-size build for me, so i'll be back to my usual 1/48 Spitfires soon...they take up less shelf space 😉

Edited December 8, 2021 by robstopper

[WV908]

I have to admit that 1/48 Spitfires are my go-to for relaxed modelling. 

 

I find 1/72 too small to work with so sold all my kits in that scale bar the bombers. I've gone to the other end of the scale (literally) and have a 1/32 HK Lanc on the back burner which is being build as PA474. The modifications and corrections necessary to do that are right on my skill limit, or a bit last it sadly in the case of the cockpit interior.

 

Cheers,

  WV908

[robstopper]

Once i've done the resupply bomb load accessories, i have a 1/48 P-38F, a 1/48 Spitfire ix to do in the Polish Fighting Team colours, and a 1/72 Spitfire V to do as BM597 of the Polish Heritage Flight/Historic Aircraft Collection