Jaguar GR1 Weapon loads 1970s

[cherisy]

Hi all

 

I,m looking at building an old Airfix Jaguar  in the 6 or 54 Sqn markings as it would have looked when first in service in the early/mid 70s .

 

But what would a cold war load have been  at that time? Im aware that this would have consisted or 1000lb bombs and/or BL755 cluster bombs, but what was the normal load carried and on what pylons?. If tandem beams were fitted on the inner pylons , what would have been carried on the outers?. This would have been before  phimat and the jamming pod.

 

Could I use the bombs from the Revell Tornado? I am sure I read somewhere that the nose shape is wrong for the time period im looking at.

 

thanks in advance 

 

Lee

[canberra kid]

Hi Lee

These are your options 

John

[cherisy]

Thats great thanks John

[tempestfan]

@canberra kid John, if I may semi-hijack this thread - almost exactly 30 years ago, I was given some Warton publicity shots (real photos!), one being a 6 Sq machine with an LGB on IIRC the centreline pylon; similar pics also appeared in the Jaguar title in the short-lived successor to Warbirds Illustrated by A&AP. When I got that pic, I made a start on a kit but as always it got sidelined (robably because I had to study a bit). What I have never been able to find is a good drawing of the pylons, especially the c/l one. Not sure if something has improved in the meantime but those included in the Airfix and Hase kits were less than stellar IMHO. After that long winded introduction - do you happen to have something in your gorgeous files?

[wombat]

When did the 101 and phimat come in?

[Hook]

2 hours ago, wombat said:

When did the 101 and phimat come in?

I'd say early 80s.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[canberra kid]

2 hours ago, tempestfan said:

@canberra kid John, if I may semi-hijack this thread - almost exactly 30 years ago, I was given some Warton publicity shots (real photos!), one being a 6 Sq machine with an LGB on IIRC the centreline pylon; similar pics also appeared in the Jaguar title in the short-lived successor to Warbirds Illustrated by A&AP. When I got that pic, I made a start on a kit but as always it got sidelined (robably because I had to study a bit). What I have never been able to find is a good drawing of the pylons, especially the c/l one. Not sure if something has improved in the meantime but those included in the Airfix and Hase kits were less than stellar IMHO. After that long winded introduction - do you happen to have something in your gorgeous files?

I've just got in from work, so I'll take a look tomorrow. 

John

[Murph]

Was the WE.177 a possibility?

 

Regards,

Murph

[Hook]

8 hours ago, Murph said:

Was the WE.177 a possibility?

Yes:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WE.177

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[canberra kid]

@tempestfan This is all I have in the way of drawings  of the pylons.

John

[tempestfan]

Many thanks John, this certainly will be a big help!

[canberra kid]

4 minutes ago, tempestfan said:

Many thanks John, this certainly will be a big help!

I have photos too if needed.

John

[cherisy]

On 9/27/2021 at 6:52 PM, wombat said:

When did the 101 and phimat come in?

From what I've been able to deduce it was the late 80s and certainly  in time for op Granby 

[cherisy]

Bringing the thread back on subject can anyone tell me what bombs were carried in the early days by the Coltishall Jags? Other than BL755s and slick tailed 1000lb were the retarded tails used ? And are the 1000lb bombs in the Revell Tornado  kit usable? Or are the nose fuses all wrong ?

[wombat]

I’d assume retard tails due to the low level philosophy.

 

the Airfix jaguar comes with four 1000 lbers of quite a different shape to the Revell tornado ones though whether that’s inaccuracy or genuine difference in the prototype I don’t know. I think freightdog do a set of four.

[cherisy]

1 minute ago, wombat said:

I’d assume retard tails due to the low level philosophy.

 

the Airfix jaguar comes with four 1000 lbers of quite a different shape to the Revell tornado ones though whether that’s inaccuracy or genuine difference in the prototype I don’t know. I think freightdog do a set of four.

The retard tails are indeed low level and are I think the Revell ones. Although there was talk of the nose fuses being a later type.  I'm pretty certain the Airfix ones are the "slick tails" I've got the Martin Bowman book and Ian Halls Jaguar boys but all the photos seem to be slick tails. I'm hoping one of our ex Armourer types sees this. 

[wombat]

I think freightdog do both types so their product images would give something to compare against.  

 

Tornados lobbed 1000 lbers so logic would suggest not retard tails though Revell might not have thought that far. Jags I think laid down so would have retards but again I think that sort of pedantry was beyond 1970s Airfix 

[Phone Phixer]

I've not seen the 1,000lb bombs in the Revell kit. But I'm guessing by your comments on the nose, that they have the 960 fuze nose proximity sensor included.

 

 

If that's the case, they are way too modern for use in the 70's.

The Colt Jag's were close air support and conventional attack. So BL755, and 1,000lb retard or ballistic are your choices. Probable load would be 1200ltr tanks on the inboards, bombs on the outboards and 2 bombs on the centerline.

The upgrade to GR1A standard, started late 1983 brought the ability to carry Sidewinder, Phimat or AN/ALQ 101 ECM pods on the outboard pylons.

 

Rob.

[Slater]

Could the retard tail (No 117?) be configured for cockpit selectable high or low drag?

[Phone Phixer]

1 hour ago, Slater said:

Could the retard tail (No 117?) be configured for cockpit selectable high or low drag?

No, nothing so advanced available. The bombs had 2 shearwires to connect to the pylon. One for fuzing that went into an electromagnetic unit, so if the switch was not selected in the cockpit, the wire just pulled out so the bomb could be dropped safe. The other shearwire was for tail operation that went to a static "hook", so it operated on every release.

There was a procedure to inhibit the 117 retard tail, so it wouldn't open and be like the 114 ballistic tail. But it had to be done in the bomb dump before weapon prep. Bit of a waste of an expensive tail unit though!

[cherisy]

5 hours ago, Phone Phixer said:

I've not seen the 1,000lb bombs in the Revell kit. But I'm guessing by your comments on the nose, that they have the 960 fuze nose proximity sensor included.

 

 

If that's the case, they are way too modern for use in the 70's.

The Colt Jag's were close air support and conventional attack. So BL755, and 1,000lb retard or ballistic are your choices. Probable load would be 1200ltr tanks on the inboards, bombs on the outboards and 2 bombs on the centerline.

The upgrade to GR1A standard, started late 1983 brought the ability to carry Sidewinder, Phimat or AN/ALQ 101 ECM pods on the outboard pylons.

 

Rob.

Thanks Rob that's just what I'm after. I'll use the kit 1000lb ers and a spare tank I have

[Selwyn]

5 hours ago, Slater said:

Could the retard tail (No 117?) be configured for cockpit selectable high or low drag?

The original intention was that they could select from the cockpit to release the 1000lb/117 tail  as either high drag or free fall. and the mechanism was  built into the fuze system. However the system was deemed to be vulnerable to bird strike and never used operationally.  What did happen (infrequently) was that you could wire up the retarder function to disable it so the bomb acted as a free fall weapon.

 

Selwyn

[exdraken]

That makes more sense definitely!