Stickframe Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 (edited) Hi Andy, Well, I had to look up a "de dion tube" and find out what it is! Pretty interesting setup - seems the rearend is characteristically similar to that found on 70's F1 cars - except, the shafts are attached to the (fixed) diff, rather than to a transaxle - I think? I've got to say, I had to look at several pictures to figure out how all the parts work together 🧐 Looks like a great rearend to scratch build! I'm embarrassed to say, it also took me a while to figure out where the shocks are located, and how the links are set up.....shame on me!! This will be a lot of fun to watch being built - and I'm looking forward to it! Oh! almost forgot, your diff looks great! As for scale/size etc - and you could use the 'ol "eye-chrometer", and see if what you've built is relatively close to what the kit provided on the rear diff? I realize, not the same, but, I suppose you have a limited amount of space to work with, so maybe you could confirm the size/proportion? I'm willing to guess that you're doing this anyway! Cheers Nick Edited January 5, 2022 by Stickframe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbadge Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Great job on the Diff, it looks great , I hadn't noticed the door hinges when I posted about the doors, I have gone back and am suitably impressed they look fab Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toftdale Posted January 5, 2022 Author Share Posted January 5, 2022 2 hours ago, bigbadbadge said: Great job on the Diff, it looks great , I hadn't noticed the door hinges when I posted about the doors, I have gone back and am suitably impressed they look fab Chris Thanks for the interest Chris as for missing the hinges you're excused for as they are quite small Andy 22 hours ago, Stickframe said: Hi Andy, Well, I had to look up a "de dion tube" and find out what it is! Pretty interesting setup - seems the rearend is characteristically similar to that found on 70's F1 cars - except, the shafts are attached to the (fixed) diff, rather than to a transaxle - I think? I've got to say, I had to look at several pictures to figure out how all the parts work together 🧐 Looks like a great rearend to scratch build! I'm embarrassed to say, it also took me a while to figure out where the shocks are located, and how the links are set up.....shame on me!! This will be a lot of fun to watch being built - and I'm looking forward to it! Oh! almost forgot, your diff looks great! As for scale/size etc - and you could use the 'ol "eye-chrometer", and see if what you've built is relatively close to what the kit provided on the rear diff? I realize, not the same, but, I suppose you have a limited amount of space to work with, so maybe you could confirm the size/proportion? I'm willing to guess that you're doing this anyway! Cheers Nick Hi Nick, I was only aware of the de dion setup due to my interest in Caterhams. But I am certainly no expert so it will be interesting to see if we agree on how everything is connected up. With regards to the size of the rear diff, I know the position of the output shafts (dead in line with the rear wheel centres) and I also now where on the chassis it is fixed. Therefore using this distance I was able to guesstimate its overall size - Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbdesignart Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 On 1/3/2022 at 10:21 PM, keefr22 said: Didn't fancy crawling underneath the car and measuring yours then?! 🤣 Keith Crawl underneath! You can pick these up with one hand and then measure with the other 😂 The amazing detailing contiues, good work Andy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toftdale Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 On 06/01/2022 at 20:47, mbdesignart said: The amazing detailing contiues, good work Andy. Thank you, but not quite upto a commercial level 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toftdale Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 The next task is to attach the rear diff. On a Caterham the space frame is exposed in the rear axle area and the diff is attached to the near vertical section behind the rear seats. On the model this vertical section of the frame is missing, however it is effectively double skined. So I have cut away the outer section from the body (it took twice as long to neaten the hole as it did to remove the section). Then using square stock fabricated the missing part of the space frame, hopefully the pictures make more sense. Now all I have to do is make the mounting brackets, although I have a horrible feeling that I may need to make a new diff as the fixing hole are not at the right angle 😫. You can also see that I have removed the rear shock mountings as they need to be moved back. Thanks for looking - Andy 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FG2Si Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Just found this and wanted to say that your work looks great. The 1/13 Tamiya Caterham has a deDion rear end. Maybe that would be a good source for details? I can scan the instructions from mine if you can't find them online. Carl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toftdale Posted January 9, 2022 Author Share Posted January 9, 2022 15 hours ago, FG2Si said: Just found this and wanted to say that your work looks great. The 1/13 Tamiya Caterham has a deDion rear end. Maybe that would be a good source for details? I can scan the instructions from mine if you can't find them online. Carl Hi Carl, Thanks for the compliment and great idea regarding the Tamiya instructions. I've just found them and they certainly clarify a few things, thanks - Andy 😀👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toftdale Posted January 16, 2022 Author Share Posted January 16, 2022 I've abandoned the rear diff as its size will be dictated by the gap between the rear of the car and the de dion tube. Therefore I've started working on the de dion tube, It my not look much, but it took plenty of head scratching. For reference the tube is made from 2.5 mm styrene tube. The tube should be at the same height as the live axle. So I have cut the shocks from the live axle by cutting through the axle and the converting the portion of axle into the lower mount. The brackets for the trailing arms are made from an old photoetch fret. The easiest way to attach them was to cut a slot into the tube and them simply slip them in. Thanks again for stopping by - Andy 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 The angle of the dangle looks pretty complicated Andy, good work getting that set up correctly! Keith 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickframe Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Hi Andy, This is looking good. I think your approach to the diff makes sense, and am looking forward to your next update. Will you need to make some sort of knuckle that cohouses the propeller shafts/u-joints/hubs and de dion tube locators? I realize that the example below is comparatively heavy duty to what you might need - it's a knuckle from a front drive axle. The central opening houses the prop shaft, hub and u-joint, and the tab bolted on top to connect to drag link for steering - but, in this case, you could attach the de dion to the tab (re-oriented to accommodate the tube)? Might be fun to try and scratch build! 😄 Looking forward to your next update Cheers, Nick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toftdale Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 On 17/01/2022 at 20:36, Stickframe said: Hi Andy, This is looking good. I think your approach to the diff makes sense, and am looking forward to your next update. Will you need to make some sort of knuckle that cohouses the propeller shafts/u-joints/hubs and de dion tube locators? Hi Nick, Thanks for the compliments. Hopefully the diagram below shows the set up quite clearly This is the first time I have ever made a suspension mod (other than lower ride height) so my intention is to keep it simple. My master plan is to slightly lower the diff so I can use a solid (straight) brass axle, which will give me the strength. Therefore I just need to add the plates at the end of the de dion tube and then I can add the brake discs directly to the axle. - Andy 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiny Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 I don't think I would even dream of building up a a suspension like like this, let alone be able to pull it off so well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toftdale Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) Duplicate post 😳 Edited February 22, 2022 by Toftdale 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toftdale Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 Back on this after a spot of DIY, one tip I forgot to mention last time is that If you want to drill a hole perpendicular through a piece of tube then a pin vice with a 4 jaw chuck can be used as a guide. This may be common knowledge, but I felt quite chuffed when I stumbled upon this idea after alot of less than perfect tries. So the first thing I had to do before I could install the de dion tube was move the rear suspension mounts back. The next step was to attach the top trailing arms, this took an absolute age and I almost gave up because everytime I worked on one side the other kept falling out of place. Then I needed to attach the tube to the lower sub-frame. I've kept the original kit part, but modified it and used magnets to attach the sub-frame to the tube. The next step is to make the plates for the end of the de dion tube and then get them to align up with the rear axle, wish me luck I think I am going to need it. Thanks for looking Andy 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshanks Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Fine engineering work here Kev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 42 minutes ago, Toftdale said: wish me luck I think I am going to need it. Good luck! But I'm sure it'll be alright on the night! Some good, fiddly progress there Andy! Thanks for the pin vice tip, new one on me and very useful! Keith 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickframe Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Hi Andy, you're making nice progress on this build - really shaping up to look the part(s)! Nick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbadge Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Wow the very detailed and fiddly suspension/axle work is phenomenal. The pin vice tip is most useful. Thank you Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toftdale Posted February 23, 2022 Author Share Posted February 23, 2022 On 22/02/2022 at 21:50, longshanks said: Fine engineering work here Kev 23 hours ago, keefr22 said: Good luck! But I'm sure it'll be alright on the night! Some good, fiddly progress there Andy! Thanks for the pin vice tip, new one on me and very useful! Keith 22 hours ago, Stickframe said: Hi Andy, you're making nice progress on this build - really shaping up to look the part(s)! Nick 2 hours ago, bigbadbadge said: Wow the very detailed and fiddly suspension/axle work is phenomenal. The pin vice tip is most useful. Thank you Chris Thank you gents for the compliments. It was very frustrating to get this bit right, but strangely satisfying when I did. - Andy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toftdale Posted March 3, 2022 Author Share Posted March 3, 2022 After failing with several elaborate jigs, I discovered the best way to ensure the rear wheels would be true to the body was simply a piece of paper with some lines drawn on it and a few weights. So now the end plates are attached to my de dion tube The only problem being is they are not quite in the centre of the rear arches, but before I rectify this I couldn't resist a MOCK UP😃 despite the rear wheels being slightly too far rearward I'm over the moon as all 4 wheels touch the ground. Thanks for looking - Andy 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbadge Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 Oh wow the mock up looks absolutely fantastic , all your efforts are going to be suitably rewarded. A real morale boost too. Great work Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshanks Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 Vrooom! Vrooom! Looking good Kev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Toftdale said: all 4 wheels touch the ground. And that's always a relief! Can't wait to see the set up you come up with to ensure the tracking is spot on....!! Excellent problem solving again Andy! Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fnick Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 Love the mock-up too Andy! Some serious scratch building going on there. Nick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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