1:72 Grumman F9F Panther - which one for Korea conflict?

[bootneck]

There appears to be a variety of F9F Panther fighters in 1:72 scale:  Revell, Hasegawa and Hobbyboss produced some but which would be correct for a Korea period version?  I don't normally do 1:72 scale and am, sort of, migrating to that scale.  Any advice would be appreciated.

I would like to do a diorama based on this scene, from the film "The Bridges at Toko-Ri"

 

cheers,
Mike

[tempestfan]

That's a very worthwhile movie! I am no Panther expert, but am fairly confident that the -4/-5 were externally essentially identical - the Matchbox/Revell IIRC is a 4/5, but is a bit on the crude side. The MB original had at least one Korean War option. The Hasegawa is reported to have issues with the nose (high).

There are also Banshees n the rear of the deck (hint, hint!)

[Giorgio N]

Pretty much all variants of the Panther were used in Korea, although the most used were the F9F-2 and F9F-5. T

With Hobbyboss doing the F9F-2, -3, and 2P. hasegawa the F9F-2 and Revell reboxing the Matchbox F9F-5, you have all versions covered. Different story regarding the decal options in the various boxes... I'm pretty sure the Revell kit does not include decals for a Korean War aircraft, Hobbyboss may have one in the standard F9F-2 box (I'd have to check but IIRC the USN option is one that was in Korea( while Hasegawa have issued a number of different boxes. The ones that i'm pretty sure were in Korea are the two options in Hobbyboss's F9F-2P box (this was a recce variant of the 2).

Quality-wise the Hobbyboss kits are the best of the bunch, with Revell/Matchbox's offering typical of the company while the Hase kit is much older. HB's kit is not perfect in shape (maybe the best in this respect is Matchbox's) but is a modern, well moulded and detailed kit

[bootneck]

3 hours ago, tempestfan said:

There are also Banshees n the rear of the deck (hint, hint!)

I think I shall just stay with a Panther as a starter in this scale.

 

3 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

....Quality-wise the Hobbyboss kits are the best of the bunch, with Revell/Matchbox's offering typical of the company while the Hase kit is much older. HB's kit is not perfect in shape (maybe the best in this respect is Matchbox's) but is a modern, well moulded and detailed kit

Thanks for the info Giorgio.  There is a Revell, ex-Matchbox? kit for sale on Kingkit at the moment, so I'll probably go for that one then.  I'm not too concerned about Korean decals as I don't often get to that stage!

 

cheers,
Mike

[Giorgio N]

Yes the Revell kit on Kingkit website is the Matchbox mould. IIRC it's decently accurate in outline but pretty poor in internal detail, The cockpit however at least has a proper "tub" that can be used as a basis to add detail if the modeller is so inclined. The kit includes parts for folded wings, although lacks any internal detail in the area and the instructions wrongly show the wing fences as part of the folded wings... they were not, they were part of the fixed wing section.

Contrary to what Matchbox aircraft kits are generally known for, surface detail does not consist of heavy trenches but fine raised lines.the

It's a kit that until the arrival of the HB ones was considered by many as the best starting point for a model of the Panther.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Giorgio N

[Corvi]

There are differences between -2 and -5 Panthers are significant.  The -5 had a bigger tail/rudder and had wings fences...also fuselage differences in length.....  The early -2's did NOT have wing fences.   Other differences are internal and not relevant unless you are building an open engine version.

 

This article will help

 

http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2009/10/grumman-panther.html

 

 

HTH

Steve,

[72modeler]

There used to be a Microscale F9F-5 conversion that came with a new fin and rudder, and  I think intakes and wing fences for the Hasegawa kit, but since the Hasegawa kit was an F9F-2, it didn't take into account the longer fuselage of the F9F-5. IIRC the major external differences were the fuselage length, fin/rudder, intakes, and wing fences, but I have attached a link to an article by @Tailspin Turtle that also points out differences in the wings, of which I was unaware. I have the HB and Hasegawa kits, and one problem I recall reading about the HB kit is that the windscreen has an incorrectly slanted arch, which the Rob Taurus vacuform canopy corrected. If I can find the articles that dealt with converting an F9F-2/3 into an F9F-4/5, I will post it. The Hasegawa kit is actually pretty decent, but needs a cockpit and a new nose, if I remember correctly, and I think Quickboost did a replacement resin nose for that kit. Why nobody has given us a state of the art F9F-5/5P is beyond me. ( If Arma Hobby ever gets into jets, an F9F-5 and a slatted wing F-86 would be wonderful entry points- hint, hint, hint.) I also recall the wing fences were retrofitted to some of the earlier variants, but I'm a bit hazy on that. 

Mike

 

See if these are useful:

http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2017/12/grumman.html

 

http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2016/01/photo-panthers-f9f-2p-vs-f9f-5p.html

 

http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2009/10/grumman-panther.html

 

https://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2019/01/grumman-f9f-panthercougar-canopy.html

 

http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2011/05/172nd-f9f-2-panther.html

 

@Tailspin Turtle Tommy, I hope providing links to your F9F modeling blogs is not stepping on your toes, but I had all of these saved for future reference, and you ARE Mr. Naval Aviation when it comes to modeling their aircraft! It's been a long time since I fiddled with my Panther kits, so I hope my comments are accurate-  please feel free to confirm/correct for the other  Mike!

Edited September 16, 2021 by 72modeler
added link, corrected spelling

[Tailspin Turtle]

15 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Tommy, I hope providing links to your F9F modeling blogs is not stepping on your toes…

Thanks -saves me the trouble…

[Terry1954]

On 9/16/2021 at 9:40 AM, bootneck said:

I don't normally do 1:72 scale and am, sort of, migrating to that scale.

 Welcome to the scale! Plenty of advice above on relevant kits, and I would say a Panther would be a neat start to 1/72 (not too big). I have the Hobbyboss kit which is very nice.

 

Terry

[jpk]

Just a note, the Banshee's in the photo are F2H-3 or 4's, a later version. I am not certain but I don't believe they were in service yet or deployed operationally during the Korean War. In the book, the F2H-2 was the aircraft not the Panther. Airfix does a nice little early Banshee. 

[72modeler]

On 9/16/2021 at 4:16 AM, Giorgio N said:

With Hobbyboss doing the F9F-2, -3, and 2P. hasegawa the F9F-2 and Revell reboxing the Matchbox F9F-5, you have all versions covered

You are on the money, Giogio! Not precisely the answer to the poster's original query, but to help anyone contemplating the photo versions of the Panther, the specs for overall length might be of interest. (BTW, if  anybody wants to do the F9F-2P, Airwaves used to make a conversion that had a clear resin nose to replace the kit's gun nose, but only correct for a -2P. I have one, but the -5P is the one I want to model, and the conversion won't  work for the later variant.)

 

overall length (Specs taken from Naval Fighters vol. 59, Grumman F9F Panther.)

F9F-2P 37' 11.3" (The '2p"s were all modified -2's and a small number were so built by installing cameras in place of the 20mm cannon.)

F9F-5   38' 10.5"

F9F-5P 40'          (Purpose-built by Grumman; thirty-six were built; completely new nose section accounted for the increased length over the -5.)

 

Sure wish somebody would give us a new-tool 1/72 -5 and/or -5P... Cmon, Arma; it could be your first jet!)

Mike

[tempestfan]

2 hours ago, jpk said:

Just a note, the Banshee's in the photo are F2H-3 or 4's, a later version. I am not certain but I don't believe they were in service yet or deployed operationally during the Korean War. In the book, the F2H-2 was the aircraft not the Panther. Airfix does a nice little early Banshee. 

The two "silver" (or grey over white? I think they are in the relatively  shortlived silver squeezed between the GSB and the grey over white) ones are, but there's another one right at the port edge of the deck of which only the nose is visible, and I'm quite convinced it's a -2P. And indeed Airfix does (or rather did - I'm not aware of it being in the catalogue post 1988) a rather nice -2/-2P. Not gonna talk you into something, Mike, but when you have the GSB stirred and ready...you see what I mean 😇

[AV O]

On 16/09/2021 at 15:57, 72modeler said:

 

 

See if these are useful:

http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2017/12/grumman.html

 

 

Yes indeed, these links are very useful.

http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2009/10/grumman-panther.html

Don't be mislead by very colourful profiles which mix different fuselage lengths and wing shapes :

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1404136-F9F-Panther-schemes

https://arcair.com/Rev2/1901-2000/rev1984-vpd48008/00.shtm

 

Or taking the lengthened -2 fuselage as a base and adding more for a -5 version :

https://mikesresearch.com/2020/06/28/grumman-f9f-panther-jet/

 

The steps and airbrake position are a good reference :

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Grumman_F9F-2_Panther_Bu_123440_USMC_Hamilton_1950_(1013003909).jpg

Edited March 3 by AV O

[72modeler]

@AV O,

 

Thought you might be interested in the history of BuNo 123440, the F9F-2 whose photo you posted. Sad end to a beautiful jet and a young pilot. It would make a nice tribute model. Data excerpted from the Forgotten Jets website. 

Mike

 

F9F-2 Panther/Bu. 123440

*VMF-311.
*1952: VF-93 as N-xxx.
*2/16/1952: Stalled and crashed while landing on USS Philippine Sea off the Korean coast. Pilot was killed.

 

[Hook]

On 9/16/2021 at 11:16 AM, Giorgio N said:

I'm pretty sure the Revell kit does not include decals for a Korean War aircraft

This RoG Matchbox boxing has a Korean War option:

 

https://www.scalemates.com/nl/kits/matchbox-40153-grumman-f9f-4-5-panther--103851

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[Tailspin Turtle]

21 hours ago, tempestfan said:

The two "silver" (or grey over white? I think they are in the relatively  shortlived silver squeezed between the GSB and the grey over white) ones are, but there's another one right at the port edge of the deck of which only the nose is visible, and I'm quite convinced it's a -2P. And indeed Airfix does (or rather did - I'm not aware of it being in the catalogue post 1988) a rather nice -2/-2P. Not gonna talk you into something, Mike, but when you have the GSB stirred and ready...you see what I mean 😇

Strictly speaking, they weren’t “silver” but were mostly natural metal or painted overall with aluminized lacquer when it became clear that corrosion control on carrier-based natural-metal airplanes was ineffective. Also see https://thanlont.blogspot.com/2009/12/it-seemed-like-good-idea-at-time-vii.html

[AV O]

On 24/09/2021 at 21:29, 72modeler said:

@AV O,

 

Thought you might be interested in the history of BuNo 123440, the F9F-2 whose photo you posted. Sad end to a beautiful jet and a young pilot. It would make a nice tribute model. Data excerpted from the Forgotten Jets website. 

Mike

 

F9F-2 Panther/Bu. 123440

*VMF-311.
*1952: VF-93 as N-xxx.
*2/16/1952: Stalled and crashed while landing on USS Philippine Sea off the Korean coast. Pilot was killed.

 

Yes, thank you.
It says so below the picture in the description details.

[modelldoc]

Here is the Matchbox in two Korean War markings:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/15377632821/in/photolist-2kZEGPc-2judsuq-pqSoun

 

and with own decals:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/15380804265/in/photolist-GyfxD5-Cxmcgp-wvgyNa-wMJGLk-rjm3fo-qF187s-pq85Vy-qjQ1px-pQV7CG-pQQ8WH-pQSckm-q862i8-pr9Dfr-pqSoun-p9EJt6-nwLe7m-i5rG2u-catQh1-9BoMbC

 

modelldoc

[72modeler]

3 hours ago, AV O said:

It says so below the picture in the description details.

Well, I'll be darned! I never even bothered to scroll down past the photo! Serves me right! Thanks for the heads-up! (At least the two sources agreed on the history.)

Mike