EE Lightning F2a Squadrons?

[phat trev]

Looking at a scheme for my 1/72 Airfix Lightning F2a. It is very apparent that RAF 19 and 92 Sqns flew this type but did any others . A bare 29 Sqn Lightning would be a preference but these look to be the F3 version. 

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by phat trev

[Giorgio N]

No other unit flew the F.2a, they were all in service with 19 and 92. Now I'm not sure if any ended up with tests units, but when it comes to front line squadrons you're limited to these two.

 

[alhenderson]

I *think* I have seen a picture of a 19 or 92 sqn Lightning in bare metal.  May have been a T-bird, though.  Or, I may have imagined the whole thing.. 😲  I'm still trying to get stencil decals for mine after I bought the starter kit which has a very basic decal sheet.  The Xtradecal Lightning stencil sheet has been out of stock at Hannants for at least a year 😞 

 

Al.

[Giorgio N]

4 minutes ago, alhenderson said:

I *think* I have seen a picture of a 19 or 92 sqn Lightning in bare metal.  May have been a T-bird, though.  Or, I may have imagined the whole thing.. 😲  I'm still trying to get stencil decals for mine after I bought the starter kit which has a very basic decal sheet.  The Xtradecal Lightning stencil sheet has been out of stock at Hannants for at least a year 😞 

 

Al.

 

The original scheme for both 19 and 92 Sqn. F.2as was indeed in natural metal, as was previously with their F.2s. The Airfix 1/72 standard kit includes a 92 Sqn. machine in this scheme, together with one from 19 Sqn. in the later green over NM scheme.

The starter kit on the other hand only includes decals for a green/NM aircraft

Edited September 10, 2021 by Giorgio N

[John B (Sc)]

All the Lightning squadrons aircraft were in natural metal at first, including most if not all the F Mk 6 machines when first issued to squadrons. I believe the same was true for Mk2a machines- the rebuilt Mk 2 aircraft. 

 

The two RAF Germany  squadrons, nos 19 & 92,  went over to camouflage green over nm  in the early Seventies I think.  My refs suggest around 1973.

 

As Giorgio said, only 19 & 92 had F Mk 2 and 2a.  Early on, AFDS had an F Mk 2, and AAEE at Boscombe also had one and RAE had an F Mk 2a.  RR had three variously assigned at times. 

 

Cheers,

John B

[phat trev]

Thanks all. I could not find any reference to other front line squadrons flying the type so glad this has been backed up and yes more stencils are definitely needed, even in 1/72 so in the look out 👀

[Buz]

If anyone is interested I have a picture of XN774 in bare metal with no SQN markings on it and XN733 with I think a blue spine but in NMF - happy to post if required

 

Buz

Edited September 11, 2021 by Buz

[iainpeden]

Look out for Richard L. Ward's book (Lightning Squadrons of the RAF) - lots of photographic evidence in that.  When based at Leconfield with F.2s and T.4  the baremetal 92 squadron a/c had blue tails and spines (Roundel Blue or Oxford Blue) and arrow head markings around the fuselage roundel. It looks like on transfer to Germany with F.2As (square tails) the squadron markings had changed to the checker board pattern.

 

There was speculation about the actual green used as it looked different to standard BS Dark Green but I'm pretty sure it was the standard colour with a combination of the slab sided Lightning causing light to fall differently and constant cleaning with WD40.

[Hook]

1 hour ago, iainpeden said:

I'm pretty sure it was the standard colour with a combination of the slab sided Lightning causing light to fall differently and constant cleaning with WD40.

Also, the lack of the normal Dark Sea Grey associated with the standard DSG / DG scheme throws the sense of colour off. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre 

[Mr T]

The first issue of Aviation News in 1972 had a photo of the first Lightning F2As in the Dark Green scheme. Very odd the looked at the time. 

[John B (Sc)]

The only other 'scheme' I have seen for a Lightning F Mk2 in natural metal is in AFDS colours - a red over black (or very dark blue) bar either side of the roundel, AFDS badge on the tail.    F Mk 2  XN777 'N'. 

[Wez]

On 11/09/2021 at 10:08, iainpeden said:

Look out for Richard L. Ward's book (Lightning Squadrons of the RAF) - lots of photographic evidence in that.  When based at Leconfield with F.2s and T.4  the baremetal 92 squadron a/c had blue tails and spines (Roundel Blue or Oxford Blue) and arrow head markings around the fuselage roundel. It looks like on transfer to Germany with F.2As (square tails) the squadron markings had changed to the checker board pattern.

 

There was speculation about the actual green used as it looked different to standard BS Dark Green but I'm pretty sure it was the standard colour with a combination of the slab sided Lightning causing light to fall differently and constant cleaning with WD40.

 

AFAIK, both Sqns transferred to Germany wearing the same markings and same marks of aircraft (e.g. F.2 and T.4), first to Geilenkirchen then to Gutersloh in the 1960's.  The change to F.2A happened during the early 1970's when aircraft cycled through major servicing at Leconfield.

 

Initially, the aircraft were in NMF, 92's wore the blue tail with the checkerboard marking rather than the arrowhead seen originally on the Mk.2/4, eventually all of 92's aircraft adopted this scheme before going over to the dark green camouflage with reduced size sqn markings.  19 Sqn's markings were the same as their F.2/T.4 markings.

 

My old Warrant Officer worked on the F.2A's after having worked on F.3/F.6's, he preferred the F.2A, he said that all of the accessories were behind their appropriate access panels unlike the Avon 300 series aircraft where everything on the engine had been shoved aft by about 2ft but the access panels remained in the same place.

[Hook]

10 hours ago, Wez said:

he preferred the F.2A

That does seem the general consensus, with the pilots as well. The airframe was a bit cleaner, with good harmonization with the engines. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[will2017]

On 10/09/2021 at 13:04, alhenderson said:

I *think* I have seen a picture of a 19 or 92 sqn Lightning in bare metal.  May have been a T-bird, though.  Or, I may have imagined the whole thing.. 😲  I'm still trying to get stencil decals for mine after I bought the starter kit which has a very basic decal sheet.  The Xtradecal Lightning stencil sheet has been out of stock at Hannants for at least a year 😞 

 

Al.

Sheet X72096 is available right now. (not that I'm on commission, btw). Hope this helps

[Bobby No Mac]

8 hours ago, Hook said:

That does seem the general consensus, with the pilots as well. The airframe was a bit cleaner, with good harmonization with the engines. 

 

And not forgetting its much better safety record.

[tweeky]

On 9/11/2021 at 10:08 AM, iainpeden said:

constant cleaning with WD40.

 

For starters in my 13 years in the RAF (5 on Lightnings at Binbrook) I've never used any WD40 on aircraft. Lightnings in service when in NMF were polished with Wadpol weekly . This was stopped when the powers to be realised every polish was removing a microscopic amount of metal. when the Jets were painted they only got washed prior to a check 2 or 3 servicing, (Washing aircraft is as pain once washed various things need checking/re-greasing/lubricating) and when the "check" servicing the engine intakes got polished (again with Wadpol). The sheen seen is the finish to the paint is like eggshell not a matt finish.

Edited September 16, 2021 by tweeky

[alhenderson]

On 14/09/2021 at 08:00, will2017 said:

Sheet X72096 is available right now. (not that I'm on commission, btw). Hope this helps

The Hannants website says out of stock - is in available somewhere else?  Would make me very happy if it was 🙂

 

Al.

[rossm]

On 9/10/2021 at 1:04 PM, alhenderson said:

I *think* I have seen a picture of a 19 or 92 sqn Lightning in bare metal.  May have been a T-bird, though.  Or, I may have imagined the whole thing.. 😲  I'm still trying to get stencil decals for mine after I bought the starter kit which has a very basic decal sheet.  The Xtradecal Lightning stencil sheet has been out of stock at Hannants for at least a year 😞 

 

Al.

Hannants have stock of Modeldecal sheets 78 (NMF) and 94 (Green) which give a good selection of stencils, I'm not a Lightning guru to know if they're complete.

[Wez]

22 minutes ago, rossm said:

Hannants have stock of Modeldecal sheets 78 (NMF) and 94 (Green) which give a good selection of stencils, I'm not a Lightning guru to know if they're complete.

They were the gold standard back in the day, I used some 40 year old Modeldecal decals earlier this year and they adhered the best of the combined aftermarket/kit decals I used.

 

You may have to source the serial numbers/code letters separately.

[Irish 251]

On 9/13/2021 at 9:04 PM, Wez said:

 

AFAIK, both Sqns transferred to Germany wearing the same markings and same marks of aircraft (e.g. F.2 and T.4), first to Geilenkirchen then to Gutersloh in the 1960's.  The change to F.2A happened during the early 1970's when aircraft cycled through major servicing at Leconfield.

Surely the F.2A conversions were done by BAC at Warton, as noted here: http://www.lightning.org.uk/histf2f2a.html  It involved fairly significant revision of the wings and lower fuselage.

[Fukuryu]

On 9/10/2021 at 9:04 AM, alhenderson said:

I *think* I have seen a picture of a 19 or 92 sqn Lightning in bare metal. 

 

Links to avoid copyright infringements:

 

https://www.milavia.net/portfolios/helmutrichter/photos/165-Lightning-F2A-XN724-F-19S.html

https://www.raf-in-combat.com/downloads/august-2018-english-electric-lightning-f-2a-35-photos/

 

[Wez]

7 hours ago, Irish 251 said:

Surely the F.2A conversions were done by BAC at Warton, as noted here: http://www.lightning.org.uk/histf2f2a.html  It involved fairly significant revision of the wings and lower fuselage.

 

So it would seem, I don't know why but I always thought they were done at Leconfield.  None of the changes would be beyond the technical capability of the MU once BAC had worked out what changes needed to be made and provided the appropriate drawings and kits.  Thanks for the clarification.

[alhenderson]

11 hours ago, rossm said:

Hannants have stock of Modeldecal sheets 78 (NMF) and 94 (Green) which give a good selection of stencils, I'm not a Lightning guru to know if they're complete.

Wow - thanks for that, hadn't realised there was an alternative 👍