Jump to content

Mid 80’s TWU Hawk pylons & CBLS


Fritag
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi all,

 

I’m struggling to find decent references, particularly detailed photo’s of the underwing weapons plylons and long tailed CBLS as fitted/carried by the Hawks at the Tactical Weapons Units at Chivenor and Brawdy in the 80’s.

 

Any suggestions/guidance much appreciated

 

Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

1 hour ago, tempestfan said:

Is nothing suitable contained in the Aeroguide? Another source could be Roy Braybrook's book (Osprey, 1984s).

 

Ta.

 

I’ve got both of them  👍 and Modern Combat Aircraft 20 from 1985 by Arthur Reed.

 

The Aeroguide (1983) in particular has some useful photos and in truth I can probably make do with what I’ve got if need be.

 

The modelling issues I’m grappling with is (1) an accurate profile for the plyon - and I haven’t yet found a really good perpendicular side on photo to work from and (2) the details on the inboard face of the pylon - most photos show the outside face (not surprisingly) and I’m not sure if they’re the same (3) the internal structures of the CBLS (practice bomb cradles etc.).

 

I’ll go back and look at those books again.. I might have missed something…

Edited by Fritag
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the reminder about the Aeroguide @tempestfan, I’ve partially answered my own question now by going back and looking again at the photos in the book.

 

It looks to me like the pylons are not ‘handed’ port and starboard.  Thus the outside of the pylon on the starboard wing is the inside of the pylon on the port wing and vice versa.  And as the Aeroguide has (b&w) photos taken from outboard both sides so I do in fact already have have decent photos of both sides of the pylon.  :D

 

Some more searching on Google hs got me some decent photos of the inside of the CBLS 100 as well.

 

Still lacking a decent 90 degree side on photo of the pylon though.  In my spares box I’ve got pylons from 3 different 1/72 hawks - old Airfix, more recent Airfix and Revell - and they’re all different shapes!

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Terry1954 said:

PS, see pm.

 

Also just checked that Chris Allen book and some Jaguar pics have CBLS, again they may not be the same?

 

Terry

IIRC The Jag had a shorter tail on the CBLS100 to allow them to be loaded on tandem on the centre pylon

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Dave Fleming said:

IIRC The Jag had a shorter tail on the CBLS100 to allow them to be loaded on tandem on the centre pylon

 

You do RC Dave :D  But the practice bomb carrier gubbins should still be the same.

 

24 minutes ago, dolphin38 said:

I have these pictures of some CBLS from Cosford, are they any good to you

 

Absobloominlutely perfect!  Precisely the internal gubbinery I was after. Thanks ever so!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

null

On 9/9/2021 at 7:16 AM, Fritag said:

Hi all,

 

I’m struggling to find decent references, particularly detailed photo’s of the underwing weapons plylons and long tailed CBLS as fitted/carried by the Hawks at the Tactical Weapons Units at Chivenor and Brawdy in the 80’s.

 

Any suggestions/guidance much appreciated

 

Steve

Not great pictures but may be of help?

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/50475-sidewinder-acquisition-rounds/

 

 

Selwyn

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Selwyn said:

Not great pictures but may be of help?

 

Yes they are thanks Selwyn.  Not least because it helps confirm that the pylons aren’t ‘handed’.  Those twin circular details (which I have vague recollection are something to do with the charges or some such for use dropping or jettisoning stores - but I may be wrong) appear only on the starboard side of each pylon.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes the Pylons were the same on port and starboard wings with the ERU Carts and throttles being on the starboard side. In the Chivenor Days they were issued as a pair with the even number fitted to the starboard side and the odd number fitted to the port. Hope this helps.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/10/2021 at 9:41 AM, Selwyn said:

 

On 9/10/2021 at 10:14 AM, Fritag said:

 

Yes they are thanks Selwyn.  Not least because it helps confirm that the pylons aren’t ‘handed’.  Those twin circular details (which I have vague recollection are something to do with the charges or some such for use dropping or jettisoning stores - but I may be wrong) appear only on the starboard side of each pylon.

The twin circular details are the Cartridge breech caps.  the ones fitted in the picture are Dummy inert caps, the live  cartridge caps are just steel coloured, the Dummy inert ones have a green circle on them (which you can just see in the image) and two small raised rivet heads, (which you can't see!) these allowed  you to feel if dummies were fitted in the dark. The LAU7a launcher/ Aquisition round/ ACMI pod combo on this jet are obviously not jettisonable. 

 

Selwyn

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, tempestfan said:

Alf Granger did drawings for the Hawk that were first printed in an early issue of Planes and reprinted at least once in a “jubilee” issue of Wingspan #100?) - I’m pretty certain they included the pylons.

 

Found the Granger Plans. And they do include pylons.  Brilliant.

 

Thanks everybody.  Thanks to you guys I’ve now got everything I need.  

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/11/2021 at 3:50 PM, Fritag said:

 

Found the Granger Plans. And they do include pylons.  Brilliant.

 

Thanks everybody.  Thanks to you guys I’ve now got everything I need.  

Don't know how detailed you want to be or your time period but on these images from cosford the ERU jaws are configured for  3Kg/14Kg practice bombs, the configuration was  slightly different for the  4lb/28 lb practice bombs, main visual difference was the size of the blocks on the jaws.

 

Selwyn

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Selwyn said:

Don't know how detailed you want to be or your time period but on these images from cosford the ERU jaws are configured for  3Kg/14Kg practice bombs, the configuration was  slightly different for the  4lb/28 lb practice bombs, main visual difference was the size of the blocks on the jaws.

 

IIRC we only learned/practised retard bombing on the TWUs and so the CBLS will only have been configured for the 3Kg practice bombs.

 

I’ve looked again at the 1/72 CBLS I’ve got and they’re so small that that just a suggestion of the ERU jaws is all that will be feasible anyway.

 

 On the pre-first gulf war Jag we also practised low level loft/toss bombing - principally for LGB delivery - and so we carried the 28lb practice bomb as well.

 

Actually - embarrassing as it is for an ex-QWI to admit - I can’t remember what practice bombs we carried.

 

Memory seems to say it was 3Kg and 28lbers; but I don’t know what the difference is between these imperial and metric practice bombs or when any changeover occurred and I couldn’t swear to what practice bombs we used :blush:  It was a long time ago…….

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, Fritag said:

 

IIRC we only learned/practised retard bombing on the TWUs and so the CBLS will only have been configured for the 3Kg practice bombs.

 

I’ve looked again at the 1/72 CBLS I’ve got and they’re so small that that just a suggestion of the ERU jaws is all that will be feasible anyway.

 

 On the pre-first gulf war Jag we also practised low level loft/toss bombing - principally for LGB delivery - and so we carried the 28lb practice bomb as well.

 

Actually - embarrassing as it is for an ex-QWI to admit - I can’t remember what practice bombs we carried.

 

Memory seems to say it was 3Kg and 28lbers; but I don’t know what the difference is between these imperial and metric practice bombs or when any changeover occurred and I couldn’t swear to what practice bombs we used :blush:  It was a long time ago…….

 

 

The changeover  from  4/28lb to 3/14Kg occured progressively in the early eighties, I think the FAA used the earlier bombs for  much longer. Main visual difference between the 4lb and 3 Kg was that the 4lb had a flat nose and the 3Kg  had a pointed nose

 

Selwyn.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Selwyn said:

The changeover  from  4/28lb to 3/14Kg occured progressively in the early eighties, I think the FAA used the earlier bombs for  much longer. Main visual difference between the 4lb and 3 Kg was that the 4lb had a flat nose and the 3Kg  had a pointed nose

 

Ah.  Ta. I have no memory of a practice bomb with a flat nose - only the pointy black capped blue ones - so must have been all 3kg at Chivenor by the time I went there in 84.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, st george said:

I was at Chivenor in 84 and we were using the 3kg practice bombs then.

 

That’s a relief.  Memory (at least as far as that goes!) confirmed.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...