Panther. No camouflage scheme included.

[Doggy]

So I'm just about to paint this model but there's no camouflage scheme.

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/tamiya-35065-panther--1166606

Using my initiative I looked at more recent tamiya kits and they include various schemes.

I'm assuming most of this camouflage was field applied and as such there is no right or wrong?

I've been looking on Google images for inspiration and I'm drawn to a splinter type scheme, I think I could paint that easier than trying to free hand some of the designs I've seen.

Am I committing and major wrong doing picking a random scheme?

 

Thanks.

[Graham Boak]

There is right or wrong when you apply the markings - is what you have painted what was on the original tank that you are trying to represent?  Bear in mind, of course, that in most cases only a small portion of the original scheme is ever seen in photographs.    Everything else is just a mix of logical and "artistic" extrapolation,

 

So find a photo or artwork showing a tank that you can do with the makings you have available, start from there and press on.

 

You can of course just do whatever you like, but that opens the way to baby blue and powder pink Panzers, and madness.

[Kingsman]

Not sure whether splinter schemes were ever actually used.  Controversial.  MNH Panthers were finished in a striped scheme for a time.  Otherwise yes, locally crew-applied.

[Doggy]

Thanks guys. I'll find something manageable and go for it.

 

I have a similar issue with an elephant.

[Bozothenutter]

Panther Ausf.A were factory finished, so depending on which factory/timeframe/specific tank there is only one scheme......

DO NOT USE BOVINGTON PANTHERS AS A REFERENCE!

THEY WERE INCAPACITATED BY TOO MUCH BACON WHEN THEY PAINTED THEM!

 

Welcome to the quagmire...

 

 

[Doggy]

1 hour ago, Bozothenutter said:

Panther Ausf.A were factory finished, so depending on which factory/timeframe/specific tank there is only one scheme......

DO NOT USE BOVINGTON PANTHERS AS A REFERENCE!

THEY WERE INCAPACITATED BY TOO MUCH BACON WHEN THEY PAINTED THEM!

 

Welcome to the quagmire...

 

 

I've seen the bovington one, it's a bit much. I was actually watching tank chats last night and the chap was talking about painting the Tigers again but this time the way they left the factory.

[IanC]

1 hour ago, Bozothenutter said:

Panther Ausf.A were factory finished, so depending on which factory/timeframe/specific tank there is only one scheme......

 

 

 

 

Panther Ausf A production ended in the summer of 1944, shortly before the new factory painted camo schemes were introduced, seen usually on the Ausf G. 

 

So yes, I'd go for a field applied olive green and/or red brown pattern over the dark yellow. Makes it easier really, as you can apply it with some abandon. 😀

[Doggy]

I tried the new tamiya colours on the elephant tonight, the new red brown is horrible. It looks green in the cup, a bit like baby poo.

The new green for German armour is ok.

[Kingsman]

Like many modellers, Bovington went with the "Jentz knowledge" of that period that tanks did leave the factory with areas of unpainted red primer in lieu of Rotbraun.  So don't throw too many rocks at them for that.  In Thomas Jentz we usually trust.

 

However, Mr Jentz subsequently revised his understanding of the source documents.  He now says that the instructions permitted those areas to be painted in Rotbraun and Olivegrun to be left in primer and Dunkelgelb only applied to the Dunkelgelb areas.  In other words, to cease painting the tanks in overall Dunkelgelb and then applying the camouflage and to paint the 3 colours directly onto the primer.  So all areas of primer were to be overpainted with something and not left unpainted.

[Julien]

21 hours ago, Bozothenutter said:

Panther Ausf.A were factory finished, so depending on which factory/timeframe/specific tank there is only one scheme......

DO NOT USE BOVINGTON PANTHERS AS A REFERENCE!

THEY WERE INCAPACITATED BY TOO MUCH BACON WHEN THEY PAINTED THEM!

 

Welcome to the quagmire...

 

 

You need to calm down and stop shouting for sure. 

[Bozothenutter]

2 hours ago, Julien said:

You need to calm down and stop shouting for sure. 

In my defense, it was actually meant in a comical way your Honor....

[IanC]

On 9/8/2021 at 7:55 PM, Doggy said:

I tried the new tamiya colours on the elephant tonight, the new red brown is horrible. It looks green in the cup, a bit like baby poo.

The new green for German armour is ok.

 

You're right. A lot of people have said the same. I normally use the old XF-64 for rotbraun, which seems about right to me.

[Doggy]

1 hour ago, IanC said:

 

You're right. A lot of people have said the same. I normally use the old XF-64 for rotbraun, which seems about right to me.

That's 3 attempts at painting the elefant, it's not going well. I was painting in my shed at 27c, the heat might have been effecting the paint.

I've order some tamiya retarder, once that arrives I'll go for attempt 4.

[Longbow]

Okay then lol.....

 

All of the Ausf. A were finished at the factory in "Dark Yellow", and the green and brown was field applied by the crew or the maintenance units.

 

The green and brown were supplied in a paste form, and could be thinned with either water or gasoline. 

 

The amount of color saturation was dependent upon the amount of thinning solution used.

 

Water thinned paste would fade a lot quicker in the field than gasoline thinned paste. 

 

The camouflage green and brown was applied with whatever means necessary, air-gun type spray, brush, rags, mops, or brooms. Take your pick. 

 

The green paste was a very dark Olive type green, and the brown a very dark chocolate/red brown, and as stated above, thinned to the crews liking. 

 

Field applied camouflage varied greatly, from crew to crew, and even within units. 

 

The vehicles were repainted when and if required, with one vehicle showing multiple patterns during its service lifetime. 

 

Do a Google search for 5th SS Wiking Panthers, and you'll find about twenty different vehicles, in the same unit, at the same time, and every one of them has a different  camouflage pattern..

 

Hope that helps you out. 

[Longbow]

This is about as good as it gets for a “splinter” type pattern on a Panther A. 
Though not really a splinter. 
The plate is consistent with the existing photos of this vehicle in the field. 
 

 

These two panthers in the pic are the exact same vehicle shown months apart. 
Too is very early spring, bottom is summer. 
 

 

 

Edit for clarity. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Longbow

[Doggy]

Thanks longbow.

[Rob Maynard]

Newbie to armour building here, so apologies for the potentially daft question to follow. 

 

For a field applied scheme, would the numbers be applied prior to the camo being applied (and painted round) or would they have been applied after? I am building this same kit and i have got as far as the Dark Yellow so far.

 

Thanks in advance

Rob

[IanC]

2 hours ago, Rob Maynard said:

Newbie to armour building here, so apologies for the potentially daft question to follow. 

 

For a field applied scheme, would the numbers be applied prior to the camo being applied (and painted round) or would they have been applied after? I am building this same kit and i have got as far as the Dark Yellow so far.

 

Thanks in advance

Rob

 

Hi Rob,

Usually afterwards, but exceptions exist. In general the camo was painted around the factory painted national markings, and then any unit level insignia and numbers applied. 

[Rob Maynard]

6 hours ago, IanC said:

 

Hi Rob,

Usually afterwards, but exceptions exist. In general the camo was painted around the factory painted national markings, and then any unit level insignia and numbers applied. 

Hi Ian

 

Thanks for the clarification, i was working on the idea that they would be delivered in the basic Yellow and then be given their camo and identity by the sqn. Now i just have to work out a camo scheme!

 

Regards

Rob

[noelh]

On 9/27/2021 at 9:18 PM, Rob Maynard said:

Hi Ian

 

Thanks for the clarification, i was working on the idea that they would be delivered in the basic Yellow and then be given their camo and identity by the sqn. Now i just have to work out a camo scheme!

 

Regards

Rob

You  could  just put yourself in the position of an  individual crew/unit and their interpretation of the camo. Looking at photos and videos. It varied widely. I think  sometimes modellers apply quite complex schemes. But  looking at the photos sometimes crewmen themselves just slapped it on as quickly as possible.

Edited October 18, 2021 by noelh