Robin Olds 'Fighter Pilot' - Hobby 2000 1/72 F-4C. +++ FINISHED +++

[Johnson]

1 hour ago, giemme said:

Are you using the Eduard complete PE set?

It should be included in the unpainted fret, it's one piece with the canopy opening mechanism for that side.

I only have the set for the F-4J, I don't think it's included. But I can scratch something.

 

1 hour ago, giemme said:

I think you caught the bug!  What bug? You'll see...   

Definitely!

[giemme]

1 hour ago, Johnson said:

I only have the set for the F-4J, I don't think it's included. But I can scratch something.

Got it - no, not included in that, because starboard side of the RIO there's the insulation panel for the refueling probe.

I guess you do need to scratch build one. See, what did I tell you about the bug?

 

Ciao 

[Gene K]

5 hours ago, Johnson said:

 These were USN bumps and specific to the F-4J. Hasegawa use the same part for the C and J.

 I've been removing those "bumps" for the last 31 years when building Hasegawa 1/72 USAF  Phantoms. The wing section with the "bumps" (sprue C) is common to ALL Hasegawa kits except the F-4B/N (thin wings - Sprue B ) and the RF-4B (has both Sprues B and C).  As an aside, the shape of the antennas actually differed between models and timeframe, but that's going off topic ... and I'm trying to keep off the bad boy list .

 

I think you may enjoy this excellent three part F-4C Conversion (from 1/48 Tamiya F-4B to Old's F-4C). Good reference pictures. Use Chrome and right click to Translate.

 

Gene K

Edited October 18, 2021 by Gene K

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

50 minutes ago, Gene K said:

 I've been removing those "bumps" for the last 31 years when building Hasegawa 1/72 USAF  Phantoms. The wing section with the "bumps" (sprue C) is common to ALL Hasegawa kits except the F-4B/N (thin wings - Sprue B ) and the RF-4B (has both Sprues B and C).  As an aside, the shape of the antennas actually differed between models and timeframe, but that's going off topic ... and I'm trying to keep off the bad boy list .

 

I think you may enjoy this excellent three part F-4C Conversion (from 1/48 Tamiya F-4B to Old's F-4C). Good reference pictures. Use Chrome and right click to Translate.

 

Gene K

Can I ask you a quick question, The Hasegawa 1/72 B/N Phantom’s wings,

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/hasegawa-04103-f-4b-n-phantom-ii--121968

 

One example: 

 

https://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/kits/has/kit_has_01566.shtml

 

every photo Ive looked at of these kits looks to be bulged wings. Am I mistaken or are some kits bagged incorrectly. 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[helios16v]

3 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Can I ask you a quick question, The Hasegawa 1/72 B/N Phantom’s wings,

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/hasegawa-04103-f-4b-n-phantom-ii--121968

 

One example: 

 

https://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/kits/has/kit_has_01566.shtml

 

every photo Ive looked at of these kits looks to be bulged wings. Am I mistaken or are some kits bagged incorrectly. 

 

I've got one of those B/N kits in the stash, and it has the thin wing.  It is the 2011 boxing though if that makes any difference.
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/hasegawa-01566-f-4b-n-phantom-ii--141028

 

[Gene K]

3 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

 ... every photo Ive looked at of these kits looks to be bulged wings. Am I mistaken or are some kits bagged incorrectly. 

Are we mixing up bulged wings (to house the fatter tires) with antenna housing "bumps" under the wings that Johnson referred to? All the Hasegawa B/N models I've had/have (quite a few) ALL have the thin wings that also have the Antenna housings (Sprue B). If you go to the Hobby Search web site and search for "1/72 Hasegawa phantom), you'll get a listing which, if you expand a specific model, will show details for that kit, including sprues ... like this. 

 

Gene K 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Gene K

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

2 hours ago, Gene K said:

Are we mixing up bulged wings (to house the fatter tires) with antenna housing "bumps" under the wings that Johnson referred to? All the Hasegawa B/N models I've had/have (quite a few) ALL have the thin wings that also have the Antenna housings (Sprue B). If you go to the Hobby Search web site and search for "1/72 Hasegawa phantom), you'll get a listing which, if you expand a specific model, will show details for that kit, including sprues ... like this. 

 

Gene K 

No some of the builds Ive seen seem to have the wheel/tire bulges on top of the wing like the rest of the Phantom production. Maybe its just a case that someone mixed wings on the build. 

[Johnson]

'evening folks,

 

Thank goodness for weekends, made some progress. But... had I found Giorgio's @giemme excellent 1/72 McDD F-4 C Phantom II, Hasegawa/Monogram kitbash (essential reading for any 1/72 Hasegawa Phantom modeller) earlier I might have saved myself some work. For instance, the resin Aires exhausts. It's necessary to cut away some of the internal parts to make them fit. Try doing that after the fuselage is all buttoned up, key-hole surgery up the rear! 

 

After cleaning up the fuselage join, the spine needed the fuel cell hatches rescribing;

 

and the AAR panel adding;

 

Adding back the rivets...

 

And a distraction  - a package has arrived from Hobby Search in Japan! ;

But not alas for this STGB.

 

Back in the cockpit. I needed something resembling the circuit breaker panel for the WSO's stbd side;

I have no idea if this is what it really looks like, it's in a difficult position and photos thin on the ground, this was the best I could find;

Wasn't much help really. But I think what I have will suffice at 1/72.

 

So I now have something resembling a Phantom .

(the strengthening plates on the elevators will need to go).

 

And much as I'd like to move on to the painting, I think that the ailerons really should droop slightly. I'm planning that this will be Col Olds F-4C just before a mission, so the ailerons should be down a bit due to the loss of hydraulic pressure. And the flaps too? And lower by how much? Can Gene @Gene K help me here?

 

Suggestions, thoughts, improvements, criticisms... all gratefully accepted.

 

Cheers,

[Dansk]

Looking good Charlie. That fuselage join looks perfect and smooth. 👌

what’s your experience with hobbysearch? Their (and other japanese retailers’) prices always seem cheaper on scalemates but I usually end up paying import duty on Japanese purchases, but not sure if it’s the same in the UK. 

[giemme]

40 minutes ago, Johnson said:

the ailerons should be down a bit due to the loss of hydraulic pressure. And the flaps too?

Only the ailerons. Do not exaggerate with the droop, that is only possible for long time parked aircraft, like in museums. But I think that up to 30 degrees deflection is plausible - prepared to stand corrected if anyone knows better.

 

Ciao 

[Johnson]

17 minutes ago, Dansk said:

Looking good Charlie. That fuselage join looks perfect and smooth. 👌

Thanks Paul, lots of sanding involved and some detail loss, but thought it necessary to get the smooth Phantom shape.

 

17 minutes ago, Dansk said:

what’s your experience with hobbysearch? Their (and other japanese retailers’) prices always seem cheaper on scalemates but I usually end up paying import duty on Japanese purchases, but not sure if it’s the same in the UK.

 

Entirely Positive. Cost ¥5,215 JPY (about £36) delivered, no import duty (not sure what the limit is, too scared to check!) First purchase ever from Japan but few retailers here stock Fine Molds and the one that does couldn't tell me if they would get stock. Purchase was straightforward, paid with PayPal 'Automatic Payment' which seems OK. I had to register with Hobby Search before the sale would go through. Tracked 'Japan Air' postage and arrived in about a week. Very well packaged. I was happy and will use them again.

 

9 minutes ago, giemme said:

Only the ailerons. Do not exaggerate with the droop

Thanks Giorgio, will do!

 

Cheers,

[Chrisj2003]

2 hours ago, Dansk said:

Looking good Charlie. That fuselage join looks perfect and smooth. 👌

what’s your experience with hobbysearch? Their (and other japanese retailers’) prices always seem cheaper on scalemates but I usually end up paying import duty on Japanese purchases, but not sure if it’s the same in the UK. 

Paul, as Charlie has found in the UK buying direct from Japan works out cheaper. The biggest order I’ve had was 3 x FM F-4C. Worked out at £28 each because the air post from Japan didn’t go up for multiple items. The F-4C doesn’t seem to have made it to retailers in the UK but the E is selling at £39.99. The only time I paid import was when I used a shipper other than Japan post. 
 

I’ll let this post get back to Charlie’s very thorough modelling. 😀
 

Chris

[Dansk]

2 hours ago, Johnson said:

Entirely Positive. Cost ¥5,215 JPY (about £36) delivered, no import duty (not sure what the limit is, too scared to check!) First purchase ever from Japan but few retailers here stock Fine Molds and the one that does couldn't tell me if they would get stock. Purchase was straightforward, paid with PayPal 'Automatic Payment' which seems OK. I had to register with Hobby Search before the sale would go through. Tracked 'Japan Air' postage and arrived in about a week. Very well packaged. I was happy and will use them again.

Thats good to know Charlie. Often there’s exciting variations of kits and AM that’s only released in Japan so this is interesting to know with your experience there.

I bought one kit from Plaza (a Phantom rather conincidentally) a long while back, but got stung in import duty here though nearly doubling the price.

[Dansk]

3 minutes ago, Chrisj2003 said:

The only time I paid import was when I used a shipper other than Japan post. 
 

I’ll let this post get back to Charlie’s very thorough modelling.

Thanks Chris, I must try Japanese post next time.

Sorry Charlie, stealing your thread here - my bad

[Johnson]

13 minutes ago, Dansk said:

Sorry Charlie, stealing your thread here - my bad

No problem Paul, good exchange of information.

[Gene K]

19 hours ago, Johnson said:

 ... Col Olds F-4C just before a mission, so the ailerons should be down a bit due to the loss of hydraulic pressure. And the flaps too? And lower by how much

The flaps would normally be up - it's a locked position vice the free drooping ailerons and speed brakes. There could be a condition where the crew chief may have asked the pilot to lower the flaps before shut down, and the flaps would then be in either half or full down position before start. But that would be unusual (except in Germany where flaps were routinely lowered before shutdown).

 

As Giorgio pointed out, since the airplanes were flown ALOT, there would be little idle time for the ailerons to droop much.  How much? Maybe 2-3mm in 1/72? "Depends" ... 

 

One item that you could rectify is the lack of Aux Air Doors on the Hasegawa kits. These are fully open anytime the gear handle is in the down position. Simply cut the doors out and fabricate new ones (interior is extremely hard to see so a little relief could be inserted ... or on the next model, get these.) You can use your FM kit as reference.

 

Not that it would help since you've already done an excellent job re-scribing the fuselage top, but if you do another Hasegawa Phantom, this handy tool  is worth considering  - comes in 1/72 and 1/48 for both USN and USAF kits. Also available at Hobby Search, for example, here's the USN 1/72 version.

 

Gene K

Edited October 25, 2021 by Gene K

[Johnson]

7 hours ago, Gene K said:

The flaps would normally be up - it's a locked position vice the free drooping ailerons and speed brakes. There could be a condition where the crew chief may have asked the pilot to lower the flaps before shut down, and the flaps would then be in either half or full down position before start. But that would be unusual (except in Germany where flaps were routinely lowered before shutdown).

 

As Giorgio pointed out, since the airplanes were flown ALOT, there would be little idle time for the ailerons to droop much.  How much? Maybe 2-3mm in 1/72? "Depends" ... 

 

Thanks Gene - a little aileron droop then.

But first some surgery...  The patient awaits the knife, suitably anesthetized!(Like many of my recent activities, this would have been a lot easier at an earlier stage of construction. Must plan better!)

 

Attempts at removing the ailerons with the scalpel were unsuccessful and likely to damage the Phantom (and me as well!🩸). The razor saw finished the job, but removed more plastic so a bit of reconstructive surgery will be required. All things considered, a successful operation. Collateral damage - the rear fuel dump broke off again (3rd time!)

 

7 hours ago, Gene K said:

One item that you could rectify is the lack of Aux Air Doors on the Hasegawa kits. These are fully open anytime the gear handle is in the down position. Simply cut the doors out and fabricate new ones (interior is extremely hard to see so a little relief could be inserted ... or on the next model, get these.) You can use your FM kit as reference.

 

Next Op, already marked up. But it's getting a bit late now, must take the dog out!

 

Back tomorrow with the knife!

 

Cheers,

[Gene K]

24 minutes ago, Johnson said:

But first some [aileron] surgery...  The patient awaits the knife, suitably anesthetized!

On your next Has kit, cut the edges of the ailerons, then lightly score the top hinge line, and heavily score the bottom hinge line, creating a shallow trough. Then carefully bend the aileron down "just a tad". That process will save you having to build up the aileron leading edge and reattaching, the result being a smooth transition between the top wing and aileron ... leaving only a white plastic stress line as evidence.

 

That process will also work with your new FM kit, but it's simpler because the aileron edges as presented in the kit are almost cut all the way through! 

 

GeneK

Edited October 25, 2021 by Gene K

[Johnson]

12 minutes ago, Gene K said:

On your next Has kit, cut the edges of the ailerons…

Will do. I have another Hasegawa Phantom waiting to be built, an F-4J.

But I think the FM F-4D will be on the bench next 😊.

 

[Terry1954]

Great choice of real world subject, and a fantastic start on the kit. @Gene K's intake template looks excellent. @giemme's double build encouraged me to acquire a couple of Fine Molds F-4's (a J and an E) and I also have a D and a Hasegawa RF-4E on order!

 

Will watch this build and learn!

 

Thanks

 

Terry

[Johnson]

5 minutes ago, Terry1954 said:

Will watch this build and learn!

That's very kind of you Terry, but if you follow this you'll probably learn how not to do it! 

Giorgio's mega WIP is the one to learn from, wish I'd read it before starting mine.

Cheers,

[Johnson]

Ailerons dropped, not too much. It was actually a lot of work, repairing the damage caused by cutting them out.

 

I think it was worth it as it makes for a more interesting and accurate model. But complicates the painting . However, I can add red around them which looks good! 

 

 

 

And some detail in the auxiliary air intakes (doors still needed). A simplified version of detail in the Fine Molds kit.

 

 

The FM instructions say paint the Aux Intake details 'steel'. I think some black primer first and bring the detail out with alclad, steel or something lighter. Not that much will be visible once the doors are on.

 

Back soon, hopefully with some paint on! 

 

Cheers,

[Thom216]

Always nice seeing the little added details.

[giemme]

Proper droop there, Charlie

 

Ciao 

[Johnson]

First paint! 

 

 

OK, not terribly exciting I grant .

 

I'm using Xtracolor enamel paint and feel quite unusual on BM in that. But I really can't get on with acrylics using an airbrush and haven't tried the new lacquer based paints, though I feel that I ought to.

 

I used gloss white FS17875 on the underside. The kit instructions specifies Grey FS36622 but I'm following the really excellent Fundekals guide (free on their website) which points out that the Op Bolo F-4Cs that were at Ubon RTAFB in 1966/67 were originally painted in factory applied Light Gull Grey over gloss white, and the SEA upper camouflage was subsequently applied, probably at Clark AB in the Philippines.

 

 

I'm looking forward to the camo painting. I've not had a Phantom in the SEA scheme since I did an Airfix Phantom about 50 years ago.

 

Back soon, with more paint I hope.

 

Cheers,