From Kiel*) to Eternity - Revell's Emden in 1/350

[Chief Cohiba]

Hello to the experts on maritime modelling, and the masters of plastic shipyards; hope you find it not too boring to have a look on a beginner's take on the venerable Emden in 1/350 from Revell. Been ages since I had my last try on a ship model, and not any attempt since I joined this site here, so you may consider me quite a noob on this discipline.

I usually do planes, with a focus on WWI biplanes in 1/48, so this is quite new for me.

I hope I can use some of the experience I made on them, e.g. weathering, rigging, working with tiny parts, working with even tinier parts, bending small parts into strange shapes, and swearing like an old salt, when a part is departing into another dimension due to the clumsiness of my old fingers. That's what I bring to the job.

 

A few skills I guess I will have to hone on this, e.g. I never worked on a wooden deck before. Also the mechanics of a ship, e.g. how turrets work or the meaning of all the tiny pieces I try to mount aren't 100% familiar to me. In addition, as a result from the lack of experience, I don't have a feeling of the order of the build process, or even more, when to leaeve the given path. 

 

But I'm willing to learn, as this is also a bit of a learning piece, next I plan for the modern release of the Viribus Unitis from Trumpeter, something I really look forward to.

 

My interest in the Emden goes far back into my childhood days, when I learned about it in our holidays in a book I got in a newsstand, all the tales of bravery and knighthood that attracted me - well, I was 10 then. Realism came later.

 

But anyway; the kit I got used, given the price tags my guess it's the first incarnation from I think 94. It's stated in Austrian Shillings, something we gave up in 2002, so that's almost a vintage piece. Like me, one might say... 😉

 

 

 

Apart from the box, which was the same, nasty side-opening box we all love Revell for, it's I think the same kit as in it's more recent releases.

 

The add-ons so far; the PE-Sets from Eduard, a Hunter wooden deck and EZ line as well as Uschi vdR's rig-that-thing wire is present.

 

 

A few sources are here as well, one is the paperback from my childhood days, the other is the Kagero book.

 

 

So, I do hope for your expertise in that and, may I add, your patience - this is nothing I expect to go quickly!

 

Enjoy, grab a seat on deck of the old Emden and prepare to throw your wisdom at me!

 

Cheers, Guenther

*) The Emden wasn't launched in Kiel, but in Danzig which is some 350 miles away. But it sounds much better.

[Jerry L]

Hello, and welcome. The ship yard workers here are a great bunch and extremely helpful. Looking forward to your build. 

[ArnoldAmbrose]

4 hours ago, Chief Cohiba said:

hope you find it not too boring to have a look on a beginner's take on the venerable Emden in 1/350 from Revell.

Gidday Guenther, ALL of us were beginners at some point. In fact, I've been a beginner for nearly 50 years now. 🙂 And I'm still not game to try wood decks, PE and rigging. Your build of Emden should be interesting. I've only done one WW1 ship (Airfix's HMS Iron Duke in 1/600) and would like to do more sometime. Looking forward to seeing yours come together. Regards, Jeff.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Hello Guenther,

 

Welcome to the forum. Out of interest is Guenther your normal spelling or have you made accommodations for those of us not familiar with how to type "Günther"? It makes no difference really - I'm just curious

 

I look forward to watching your build!

[Chief Cohiba]

Well, many thanks for the nice welcome, I hope I do the expectations justice. 

1 hour ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

Welcome to the forum. Out of interest is Guenther your normal spelling or have you made accommodations for those of us not familiar with how to type "Günther"? It makes no difference really - I'm just curious

Hi Jamie, sure it's Günther, but as I try to avoid any Unicode/UTF issues converting it into something like Gu%o8o3nther, most of the times I write Guenther when travelling international waters. It seems to work well on this forum, but, you know, just in case... 

[Chief Cohiba]

I'm quite keen to put some glue on the plastic, but I'm afraid I should be patient and make something like a plan beforehand, at least for the next few steps, not to run into issues. I mean, I know there will be issues, but hopefully can avoid at least some of then. 

 

So, the rough plan is more or less to start with the deck, as in the books, but the wooden deck and all the Eduard parts will require some serious adaptions.

 

So, next steps for the start: 

Preface: I go for the Wartime-scheme rather the (admittedly attractive) tropical theme. So this is an overall grey ship, Revell states the Colour as 371 from it's own range (with 40% clear added(?)) which I have and seems appropriate, probably just lighten it up a bit.  

1. Check what parts of the deck can be replaced with PE, and do these parts make sense to replace? I'd say e.g. plastic stairs would make sense to swap for PE , while using a PE-deck part wouldn't, when a wooden deck piece is available.
2. Check for other issues, and think of a solution. E.g. I know that the main guns are totally wrong, as they are only casemats, not entirely closed, and I want to find a solution. Or, I guess I'd like to use real chains instead of the molded-in. Most likely this will lead to research and  source some things, which might take time. 
3. Double Check 1, and start with removing the superfluous structures from the deck. Grind, swear, grind more, declare finished, be unhappy, sand, sand, sand. 
4. Paint the parts not covered by wooden deck pieces. 
5. prepare the wooden deck pieces. Means, very carefully wet it, so that the fibres lift up, sand it with fine paper. I'd say start with something 1.200 grade, then repeat, even more carefully. Use finer sanding paper. Once this feels really smooth, give it a very thin coat of wood wax, carefully heated. Polish the wax coating once set.
6. Paint, bend and mount the first PE structures.
7. Drill holes for the rigging wires that are somewhat mounted on the deck, like the stacks. I think I might use some anchor points I use in my biplanes from Gaspatch - those in 1/48 for planes might be approbriate for 1/350 ships. The would be too large in real life, but might look good anyway. 
8. Make further plans...

In parallel, I should work on some issues, yet known:

• Guns/Casemats: I know there are some 3D printed pieces out there, but I don't know - detailled pictures didn't really convince me. But maybe declare them good enough and save me some scratch building
• Chains: Find and buy some approbriately sized
• Stand: I plan to make a proper wooden stand, with the ship resting on two brass columns. To make it detachable I usually use magnets, which is totally sufficient for a light ship like this. 

 Now, that looks organised.

Well, I'm not. More the opposite, I am the total slob. My colleagues gave me the nickname "Freiherr von Chaos", for my, well, "flexible" attidude towards a planned procedure. So, here's the plan we can happily skip. 

 

That given, I'd appreciate your suggestions...

 

😉 

 

[ArnoldAmbrose]

9 minutes ago, Chief Cohiba said:

Grind, swear, grind more, declare finished, be unhappy, sand, sand, sand. 

LOL 😁 Regards, Jeff,

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Hi Guenther,

 

I do have some suggestions and they will be worth exactly what you paid for them so you may take them or leave them

 

1. Check what parts of the deck can be replaced with PE, and do these parts make sense to replace? I'd say e.g. plastic stairs would make sense to swap for PE , while using a PE-deck part wouldn't, when a wooden deck piece is available. I agree this is a very good place to start.
2. Check for other issues, and think of a solution. E.g. I know that the main guns are totally wrong, as they are only casemats, not entirely closed, and I want to find a solution. Or, I guess I'd like to use real chains instead of the molded-in. Most likely this will lead to research and  source some things, which might take time. Can come back to this but studded chains are available nowadays 3D printed in resin which are excellent. I don't know the subject well enough to discuss the specific 3D printed offerings for the casemate guns, but some products on the market are absolutely beautiful at least.
3. Double Check 1, and start with removing the superfluous structures from the deck. Grind, swear, grind more, declare finished, be unhappy, sand, sand, sand. 
4. Paint the parts not covered by wooden deck pieces. Good idea, but see remark against item 6...
5. prepare the wooden deck pieces. Means, very carefully wet it, so that the fibres lift up, sand it with fine paper. I'd say start with something 1.200 grade, then repeat, even more carefully. Use finer sanding paper. Once this feels really smooth, give it a very thin coat of wood wax, carefully heated. Polish the wax coating once set. This could work but I suggest you cut away some of the excess surrounding material and test your method first.
6. Paint, bend and mount the first PE structures. Everyone has their own style and I've tried this - it's not the best way in my experience. Some parts such as handrails around the main deck are best done like this by painting them first. Most parts however will have better, stronger glue joints and a better paint finish if you attach everything you can before painting either the kit plastic or the photo etched metal. This may mean that your build sequence ends up with more painting steps. You may have to fit your wood deck to allow you to progress, then paint later, but if your wood deck has backing plastic you can use this to help mask the wood deck once it is fitted.
7. Drill holes for the rigging wires that are somewhat mounted on the deck, like the stacks. I think I might use some anchor points I use in my biplanes from Gaspatch - those in 1/48 for planes might be approbriate for 1/350 ships. The would be too large in real life, but might look good anyway. 
8. Make further plans...

[Chief Cohiba]

Hi Jamie,

 

many thanks for your remarks. I do have to disagree, though, as I haven't paid anything except some gratitude in larger amounts, but are absolutely valuable.

 

Of course I have to adapt, as things have to be judged in the view from my own bench, but your remarks make totally sense. I may answer inline for the two most import points:

1 hour ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

E.g. I know that the main guns are totally wrong, as they are only casemats, not entirely closed, and I want to find a solution. Or, I guess I'd like to use real chains instead of the molded-in. Most likely this will lead to research and  source some things, which might take time. Can come back to this but studded chains are available nowadays 3D printed in resin which are excellent. I don't know the subject well enough to discuss the specific 3D printed offerings for the casemate guns, but some products on the market are absolutely beautiful at least.

 

Thanks for the hint with the 3D-printed chains. I did have a quick research and there are great things to work from. The last time I did a shipmodel was some 15 years ago, and the only chain options where small metal chains.

For the gun sets there is a set from Micromasters, it's the only I know of, but I guess I'll give it a try. I thought about scratchbuilding, but I guess that would slow the build down to an almost halt.

 

 ...coat of wood wax, carefully heated. Polish the wax coating once set. This could work but I suggest you cut away some of the excess surrounding material and test your method first.

 

Will definitely do test it before. A modeling friend suggested to do so, and it absolutely makes sense to me, but this sounds like something where things can go wrong...

 

... bend and mount the first PE structures. Everyone has their own style and I've tried this - it's not the best way in my experience. Some parts such as handrails around the main deck are best done like this by painting them first. Most parts however will have better, stronger glue joints and a better paint finish if you attach everything you can before painting either the kit plastic or the photo etched metal. This may mean that your build sequence ends up with more painting steps. You may have to fit your wood deck to allow you to progress, then paint later, but if your wood deck has backing plastic you can use this to help mask the wood deck once it is fitted.

 

...the procedure of mounting and painting PE parts will be a matter of adaption, I guess. I was mainly thinking of the larger structure parts of the deck, which I will rather construct first. I guess I will decide in detail when I'm there and have merged the various parts & plans into a unified model

 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

The good news is that Micromaster's products are excellent. You will not be disappointed with them.

[Chief Cohiba]

9 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

The good news is that Micromaster's products are excellent. You will not be disappointed with them.

 

Good to know - never had one of those. I've only seen a review of this very set on a german page, which was not 100% enthusiastic. But well, reviews...

But I guess i will find out myself and order a set. It's reasonably priced, I'd say, so the risk is manageable. 😉

 

[Chief Cohiba]

Very briefly; ordered a set, but made the mistake to order via Shapeways, not direct. Reason is simply, I didn't find their page in Google (at least up until page 3 or so), so I thought they sell exclusively via Shapeways. Now I know... 😉

 

I should sell SEO consulting, this would be the perfect entry point for a sales pitch.. 🤓

[Chief Cohiba]

I told you, this won't be a quickbuild, didn't I?

 

Last time I posted that I bought the Micromasters set via Shapeways. It states on the Website it takes some weeks to finish it.

 

Well, it doesn't. Arrived today, none of the boxes for extra speed ticked on purchasing.

 

And man, do these look great. It's hard to take a picture, due to the transparent material, but trust me, these are gems.

 

 

 

Compared to the kit's part - well, no comparison. Just great!

 

[beefy66]

They do look good but make sure you let them stand in some sunlight for a day or so and them give them a good wash down I always find that the release agents come out after standing on a window ledge or you could find it seeping out from under your coat of paint if not cleaned and cured correctly.

 

looking good so far

 

Stay Safe

beefy

[Chief Cohiba]

Definitely will do! I keep them save and sound for now in a box (man, are those fragile), but will have them out to thoroughly harden before washing and then painting.

[SallysDad]

I have this kit, and it is really nice.

I will enjoy watching your build.

Randolph

[Chief Cohiba]

Been a while away from this - but didn't I tell you this will take some time?

 

So, according to the plan, it's step 1 to clean the deck of all unwanted plastic, so it can be switched for brass or wood. And a lot that is, these Eduard sets lets you build almost the entire structure from tiny phoo etch parts. That will be a lot of fun with tweezers.

 

To bring a bit structure in the whole lot of 8 pages of instructions from the two sets, I marked all the pieces which had to be removed in two pictures:

 

 

 

So, on to rough the deck, before I work on the wood here. 

[S-boat 55]

There'll not be much left....I always find that stage a little nerve tingling, I've started building the pe bit where possible prior to removing the plastic parts just in case

Edited November 19, 2021 by S-boat 55

[Chief Cohiba]

6 hours ago, S-boat 55 said:

There'll not be much left....I always find that stage a little nerve tingling, I've started building the pe bit where possible prior to removing the plastic parts just in case

Yes, it is quite risky here, and I can totall see your point. I thought about it as well.

 

But as I'm rather slow in this, and, knowing me, I expect the next step to be finished not to soon, storing the many pre-finished tiny and brittle PE parts might be even a higher risk - to many have been sacrificed in the past.

 

But I do feel wee and shaky when starting to cu of these parts...

 

But; he who dares wins. ✌️

[Tojo72]

Nice one of my favorite stories and ships looking forward.

[Chief Cohiba]

I hopefully stated that this will not be a quick build somewhere up above, (did I? At least I thought about it....) But an entire year is more than epxected of a gap between to steps. I guess it took me some time to collect all my courage forthe cruel and dirty (literally, as I found out) next steps.

 

Yes, I started to work (read: remove) the structures from the decks, and it is some piece of labour, using the old Dremel, of which I'm thinking of replacing with a more modern tool, as this is some 30 years old) and the usual set of knives, files, sanding sticks. All led by a hand and a will not shy of bold measures. Here's some pictures of where I stand right now:

 

 

 

I decided not to go the safe route an remove bit by bit, but all at once - with the chance of making mistakes or even fail in the entire process. But I want to go on, and making this in one step seems reasonable.

 

Hopefully I can post some more soon, but expect this a bit longer step. Could look for some chains in the meantime...

[Micha_Pol]

Willkommen im Schiffsmodellbau, Freund 🙂. You have picked up a tricky subject. Not because there is something wrong with SMS Emden, but the Revell kit it extremely primitive, ugly and basic. Some things you should be careful about: 

- The ship had some of its ATB guns in a forward casemate which Revell has chosen to show in the worst way possible. I fear some aggressive work will be needed to rectify this, even if you want to show them closed. 

- The masts and yardarms are laughably thick, best replace them all, same for the rediculously oversized ATB guns on the superstricture and the searchlights.

- The davits are also enormously think and will get more so when combined with the PE provided by Eduard. At the very least I´d sand them down to 1/2 their current thickness, or less. Other then that; I wish you a fun and successful build.

 

Here is a nice parralel build of the Emden and Dresden in waterline, the text is all Russian but maybe it still helps. https://karopka.ru/forum/forum190/topic30992/

 

[Chief Cohiba]

On 8/28/2022 at 7:59 PM, Micha_Pol said:

Willkommen im Schiffsmodellbau, Freund

Vielen Dank, und Grüße in den Norden - usually more famous for competence in shipbuilding than us here in Vienna! 😉

 

Thanks for your hints, and I'm afraid I have to agree. I honestly don't know yet how to handle some of the more severe issues this kit has But I'm not planning to do this as a museumspiece, rather a testmule to get into ship modelingso I might decide that I have to live with some of the issues - let's see. But for time related issues I'm willing to do some compromises, not to stuck in a more severe amount of scratchbuilding.

 

Let's see...

 

[Chief Cohiba]

Most of the superstructure is removed so far:

 

 

 

 

Only left to remove the more bulky stairs, which I plan to do next. As these are molded in, this will require some more brutality, at least with the tools I have right now at hand. (I plan to acquire a few more sophisticated tools for a future project, but right now it's a blunt dremel routing pin.)

 

[Chief Cohiba]

In a wee attempt to procrastinate the dirty work I played around with waxing the wooden deck. Not only I want to give this a solid finish, so that dust sticks at least a little less, I also want to tint it, just a bit. My idea is to do this with a wood polishing wax, and add just a bit of oil paint. 

 

Here's the first attempts, tested on the edges of the sheet:

 

 

While the attempts on the upper edge are much to dark, the corner bottom right is something I could work with. Also, with a bit of sanding with some very fine grade paper gives a nice and smooth surface. I might test another colour, a bit of more reddish brown, but I think this is something that could work.