1/72 Academy Grumman TBF-1 Avenger

[Andy350]

I have a few older 1/72 kits on the shelf, so what better way to practice some basic skills.  As this is a 1/72 fits on the bench very well, still fairly large for a 1/72.  I believe this kit is a few years old, but looks ok, some work will be required in tidying up some of the parts.

 

 

Detail looks ok.

 

 

A few sink marks.

 

 

Some others that have built this chose to dip the canopy and turret in floor polish, I don't have this so will make a decision closer to the time.  But I will be using a masking kit!!

 

[TonyOD]

Ooh I like the look of this. Pulling up a chair.

[dogsbody]

Seeing as this kit was based on the old FROG molds with a bit of a mid-80's update, It's a pretty good kit.

 

Chair pulled up and coffee poured.

 

 

Chris

[Andy350]

So far the kit has been really good, not sure about other scales out there, but there is not too much detail for the cockpit, not complaining at all.  the cockpit parts are together primed and painted.  I'm using mig AMMO one shot grey, so east to apply.  For the interior green I've gone with Mr Hobby Aqueous - interior green, mixed 60/40 with Mr Colour levelling thinner.

 

 

 

[Hook]

Nice work so far!

 

The Academy instructions are a bit simplified, though - the cockpit is FS34058 Bronze Green, with FS 34151 Interior Green rear crew areas. 

Cowling interior is Grumman Gray, FS36440 is a very close match. 

 

HTH!, cheers,

 

Andre

[dnl42]

Excellent subject choice! 

 

I've had good luck with Deluxe Materials' Looks Like Glass. I brush it on as a final step as I've found it doesn't like to live below Mr Color paint.

[Andy350]

1 hour ago, Hook said:

Nice work so far!

 

The Academy instructions are a bit simplified, though - the cockpit is FS34058 Bronze Green, with FS 34151 Interior Green rear crew areas. 

Cowling interior is Grumman Gray, FS36440 is a very close match. 

 

HTH!, cheers,

 

Andre

Thanks Andre, I'm going to keep this simple, which will be incorrect.  I'm just using this as a bit of practice.  Saying that, I would like the rest to be as authentic in colour as possible. 

If you can help with the outer colours I would really appreciate it. 

[Andy350]

59 minutes ago, dnl42 said:

Excellent subject choice! 

 

I've had good luck with Deluxe Materials' Looks Like Glass. I brush it on as a final step as I've found it doesn't like to live below Mr Color paint.

Thanks, what is the product you have used for? 

[theplasticsurgeon]

Hi Andy, It's a great kit TBF-1 Avenger - here are the 3 copies that I've built.

One thing about the markings.  I found a photo  of battle-damaged 301, yellow noseband.  It was a TBM-3.

 

[dnl42]

Looks Like Glass, https://deluxematerials.co.uk/collections/building-finishing-products/products/looks-like-glass-100ml

 

[Andy350]

10 minutes ago, theplasticsurgeon said:

Hi Andy, It's a great kit TBF-1 Avenger - here are the 3 copies that I've built.

One thing about the markings.  I found a photo  of battle-damaged 301, yellow noseband.  It was a TBM-3.

 

Thanks, so mine should have no yellow ochre at all? 

I'm not sure how accurate the other colours are? 

[LDSModeller]

7 hours ago, Andy350 said:

Thanks, so mine should have no yellow ochre at all? 

I'm not sure how accurate the other colours are? 

Hi Andy,

 

Unfortunately there are some folks (model manufacturers inclusive) who

think that all Avengers models are the same (Academy a classic).

The below is a very quick breakdown in differences

 

The TBF-1, TBF/TBM-1C and TBM-3 are all different beasties.

 

The main external difference are the Cowl rings (lip intakes) and Cowl flaps

Cowl shape (TBF-1 had a gun/trough upper Starboard side).

TBF/TBM-1C/TMB-3 had wing guns and no Cowl gun trough

 

Internally the TBF-1 may have had an observers seat (middle cockpit area)

The TBF/TBM-1C/-3 had the middle cockpit with radio gear etc

The TBM-3 Cockpit differed slightly also to the 1/1C

The TBF-1 would have worn both the USN Blue Grey/Light Grey. and USN 3 (or 4) tone

Paint scheme depending on time of war, but by the time the TBM-3 was in use most

likely relegated to training Squadrons

TBF-1's were in use during Battle of Midway - just a thought?

 

Regards

 

Alan

Edited September 8, 2021 by LDSModeller
additional info

[Andy350]

6 hours ago, LDSModeller said:

Hi Andy,

 

Unfortunately there are some folks (model manufacturers inclusive) who

think that all Avengers models are the same (Academy a classic).

The below is a very quick breakdown in differences

 

The TBF-1, TBF/TBM-1C and TBM-3 are all different beasties.

 

The main external difference are the Cowl rings (lip intakes) and Cowl flaps

Cowl shape (TBF-1 had a gun/trough upper Starboard side).

TBF/TBM-1C/TMB-3 had wing guns and no Cowl gun trough

 

Internally the TBF-1 may have had an observers seat (middle cockpit area)

The TBF/TBM-1C/-3 had the middle cockpit with radio gear etc

The TBM-3 Cockpit differed slightly also to the 1/1C

The TBF-1 would have worn both the USN Blue Grey/Light Grey. and USN 3 (or 4) tone

Paint scheme depending on time of war, but by the time the TBM-3 was in use most

likely relegated to training Squadrons

TBF-1's were in use during Battle of Midway - just a thought?

 

Regards

 

Alan

The colour schemes are a minefield, changing from a triple camo to just a single sea blue with white underside.  I was thinkinh of XF-18 medium blue?  As this is a build I can use to practice on I don't want to get bogged down too much.

[LDSModeller]

1 hour ago, Andy350 said:

I was thinkinh of XF-18 medium blue?  As this is a build I can use to practice on I don't want to get bogged down too much.

I recall an article (and now can't find it), where some former Grumman Employees

rebuilt an Avenger, and painting it in a Blue/White scheme, looked quite good

I'd say go for it 👍

 

Regards

 

Alan

[Tailspin Turtle]

More on TBF vs TBM: https://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2021/06/sword-172-grumman-tbf-1-avenger-and.html

 

[Hook]

On 9/7/2021 at 8:56 PM, Andy350 said:

If you can help with the outer colours I would really appreciate it

Sure!, here's a good starting point:

 

https://scalecolors.com/us-naval-aircraft-camouflage-practices-ww2/

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[72modeler]

Too late for your build, and I'm not sure how you would be able to fix it, even if you wanted to, but the contours of the rear fuselage on the Frog kit and the Academy it was based upon, starting from the fin fillet to the rudder post are not correct- much too angular and straight. The Hasegawa and Sword kits appear to have gotten this right; got rid of my Airfix kit long ago when the Hasegawa kits were released, so don't recall how well they modeled that area. See the photos below that show better what I am talking about. Finding photos of preserved examples would also show these contours. Betting @LDSModeller Alan give  us chapter and verse on appears to be a   very pretty Kiwi TBF-1C! Some pretty subtle curvatures at work here as shown below! Note that the middle seat is manned in the last linked photo of a TBF-1!

Mike

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/TBF-1C_30_Sqn_RNZAF_on_Espiritu_Santo_1944.jpeg

 

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-grumman-tbf-avenger-taxi-accident-55290886.html

 

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-grumman-tbf-avenger-early-markings-55290901.html

 

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by 72modeler
added text

[opus999]

This is a fun subject.  I'm curious to see what you think about it since I have one in the stash -- my dad gave it to me when he was cleaning out his stash!  

[theplasticsurgeon]

On 9/7/2021 at 8:16 PM, Andy350 said:

Thanks, so mine should have no yellow ochre at all? 

I'm not sure how accurate the other colours are? 

Here's a closer look at my 3-tone Academy Avenger - selected from scrutiny of LOADS of pictures, for the anonymity of its markings, and no noseart.

The height of that blue/grey demarcation, and the shades varied.

The TBF-1 had a 1700hp engine, with a single oil cooler above the engine opening. 

Cooling gills, when opened, look like a Y shape when viewed from the front. 

And a look at an Airfix TBM-3, built with those 301 markings.

The TBM-3 had a 1900hp engine, with cooler intakes above and below the engine opening.

Cooling gills form a ring around the back if the engine cowling. 

 

 

[72modeler]

2 hours ago, theplasticsurgeon said:

The TBF-1 had a 1700hp engine, with a single oil cooler above the engine opening. 

IIRC, the upper intake on the cowling nose ring on both the TBF and TBM were to supply air to the downdraft carburetor. The oil cooler on the TBF-1 was fed from an intake inside the cowl ring, but the oil cooler on the TBM was fed from an additional chin intake at the bottom of the cowling nose ring. Betting @Tailspin Turtle can confirm or correct; hard to find a good closeup photo of a TBF-1 cowling that shows how air was fed to the oil cooler, but I think it was similar to the oil cooler intakes on an FM-2 Wildcat. If I can find one, I will post it here.

Mike

 

Found a good diagram of the internal structure- see the oil cooler location as well as the middle seat position.

https://i.imgur.com/Rxt8XJM.gif

[72modeler]

3 hours ago, 72modeler said:

hard to find a good closeup photo of a TBF-1 cowling that shows how air was fed to the oil cooler

I checked all my print references as well as all the TBF walk arounds I have in my reference/computer archives, and I could not find a single photo that showed the air intake/s to the oil cooler on a TBF-1; all I could find were photos that showed the ducting immediately ahead of the oil cooler, the oil cooler itself,  and the hot air duct leading to the exit flap on the RH side of the cowling. I guess unless somebody can come up with a photo or drawing that shows the oil cooler intakes, I wouldn't worry about it; there are no oval shaped intakes between the cylinders that I can see, like those on an FM-2, so nothing will be externally visible, anyway. Best I can do from  my reference library- sorry! 

Mike 

[Andy350]

16 hours ago, theplasticsurgeon said:

Here's a closer look at my 3-tone Academy Avenger - selected from scrutiny of LOADS of pictures, for the anonymity of its markings, and no noseart.

The height of that blue/grey demarcation, and the shades varied.

The TBF-1 had a 1700hp engine, with a single oil cooler above the engine opening. 

Cooling gills, when opened, look like a Y shape when viewed from the front. 

And a look at an Airfix TBM-3, built with those 301 markings.

The TBM-3 had a 1900hp engine, with cooler intakes above and below the engine opening.

Cooling gills form a ring around the back if the engine cowling. 

 

 

Great looking builds.  It does seem that the colour schemes are a minefield.  My build was only to be something to hone my skills, I'm starting to regret it 😅

[Tailspin Turtle]

On 9/9/2021 at 2:36 PM, 72modeler said:

IIRC, the upper intake on the cowling nose ring on both the TBF and TBM were to supply air to the downdraft carburetor. The oil cooler on the TBF-1 was fed from an intake inside the cowl ring, but the oil cooler on the TBM was fed from an additional chin intake at the bottom of the cowling nose ring. Betting @Tailspin Turtle can confirm or correct; hard to find a good closeup photo of a TBF-1 cowling that shows how air was fed to the oil cooler, but I think it was similar to the oil cooler intakes on an FM-2 Wildcat. If I can find one, I will post it here.

Mike

 

Found a good diagram of the internal structure- see the oil cooler location as well as the middle seat position.

https://i.imgur.com/Rxt8XJM.gif

You win: See http://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2021/09/tbf-1-versus-tbm-3-oil-cooler-location.html

[Andy350]

I really need to pick this up again, I got a little frustrated with the paint schemes and deciding what paint to use that I shelved it.

[Jackson Duvalier]

1 hour ago, Andy350 said:

I really need to pick this up again, I got a little frustrated with the paint schemes and deciding what paint to use that I shelved it.

 

Hear hear.  You mentioned earlier the purpose of this build was to practise your skills, and IMO that's the highest and best use for an Academy TBM.  No need to agonise over accurate paint for an inherently inaccurate kit.  It won't make a good model, but it makes a perfect paint mule!  😎

 

(In the interest of full disclosure I've two of these languishing in the stash waiting for the right novice builder to play with; they go together easily in spite of the detail flaws.)