Intriguing Hurricane Photo

[pizzapaolo]

So I was going through some old family photos and came across this picture of some Hurricanes. Probably North Africa and possibly of RAF 46 Squadron - this is written on the back of the photo and was the squadron my grandfather was attached to but interestingly it's labelled as "46? Squadron" so might not be. If I google BP188 - the Hurricane 2nd closest, I get the famous mark IV Hurricane IID with 40mm cannons coded JV Z of which there is tons of photos/models of. But BP188 does not have 40mm cannons in this photo. Were mark IV's converted or new builds? Anyone know? Can anyone confirm if this is indeed RAF 46 squadron?

 

[Alex Gordon]

JV was 6 Squadron.There are some photos of BP 188 here https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Hurricane/RAF-6Sqn/pages/Hawker-Hurricane-IId-Trop-RAF-6Sqn-JVZ-BP188-Battle-of-El-Alamein-Egypt-1942-01.html and here https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205126801 .

 

Edited to add there is some production data here http://www.k5083.mistral.co.uk/APS.HTM .

Edited September 3, 2021 by Alex Gordon

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

Hurricane IID and IV were built as such, the cannons could be removed.  The BP188 images are from when with 6 Squadron, code letter Z.  BP188 was taken on Charge on 1 April 1942.  46 Squadron was sent to the Middle East in May 1941 but its aircrew were diverted to Malta.  It was reestablished as a flying unit in Egypt a year later, May 1942, flying Beaufighters.

 

Tropical filters say Middle East, no code letters on the 4th Hurricane from the camera.  No obvious match for a squadron with "46" as part of its number.  Possibly later as part of a training unit?

 

[Graham Boak]

The Mk.IID would have been pretty useless without the cannon.  On the other hand the Mk.IV had a multi-purpose wing which could have the 40mm gun, 250lb bomb or 4 rockets on each side.  In practice they served either as gunships or rocket carriers, and are sometimes referred to as RP Mk.IVs (not officially).

 

BP188 was a Mk.IID.

[pizzapaolo]

 

Thanks all so in my photo it sounds like we are looking at BP188 as a IID with the cannons removed and probably 6 squadron and not 46 squadron.

 

What about the fact that BP188 is coded "B" in the photo and not "Z" as per other photos - was common to swap letter codes?

[alt-92]

^^ That   and it looks like the fuselage roundels are different between the lined-up aircraft as well.  There's a C.1 on the fourth, but BP188 (second) seems to have something different  A1 ?

[MarkoZG]

What makes this photo even more interesting is that is shows a mix of Hurricane versions as the 4th machine in line is Mk.I. Furtheremore it seems there are some more Mk.Is down the row.

[pizzapaolo]

Wondering could it be a maintenance unit with mix of types from different squadrons? I can't make it out but if you look to left of the guy closest, there is an aircraft in background that I reckon looks like has wings folded? Or indeed has no wings...? Or maybe a P-40? Difficult to tell...

[Irish 251]

The fact of the aircraft being lined up like this would suggest that they are not near the front line, as such a parking arrangement would present an inviting target.

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Geoffrey Sinclair said:

Possibly later as part of a training unit?

 

Air Britain BP188 , IID, 6/71 OTU SOC 27.4.45

 

Given the Mk.I, down the line, and lack of 40mm guns,  71 OTU seems to fit.

3 hours ago, pizzapaolo said:

I get the famous mark IV Hurricane IID with 40mm cannons coded JV Z of which there is tons of photos/models of. But BP188 does not have 40mm cannons in this photo.

as stated, BP188 is a IID, and early IID as well, one from the BN/BP batch lack additional armour.

3 hours ago, pizzapaolo said:

Were mark IV's converted or new builds? Anyone know?

Mk.IV's were new builds.   Interestingly the batch that has IID and IV built,  KX/KW serials, the IID fuselages look to be the same as Mk.IV,  with added armour, so I presume they were using up D wings, as there does not seem any point to the IID when you have the IV, which has various possible wings stores.   

Also, the 60 IID the Sovites got were from this batch. 

Both are reasonably rare, about 300 IID and just under 600 Mk.IV built.  

 

Great pic, thanks for sharing. 

 

 

[72modeler]

Very neat photo and interesting discussion. What I know about Hurricanes can be put in a thimble with enough room left over  for the collected works of Shakespeare, but I'm pretty sure the aircraft in the background with the wings folded is a Martlet.  @Bruce Archer could probably supply the serial! 

Mike

Edited September 4, 2021 by 72modeler
corrected spelling

[pizzapaolo]

Really appreciate the insights from folks - I dug out my grandfather's service records that the RAF sent me a few years back. It could be 103 MTU at Aboukir or 135 MTU both of which are mentioned that he was attached to - he was an electrician. Of course I have no way of knowing if he took the photo or someone else passed it to him...

 

Evidence looks strongly in favour of a maintenance unit given the assortment and as Irish 251 highlighted, being parked in a line like that they clearly were not worried about air attack.

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

296 IID, with 44 January to April 1942, the remainder August 1942 to February 1943.  All up 209 built to end November 1942, Hurricane IV production started in December 1942, 524 built by end April 1944.

 

HW683, HW747 were the first production mark IV, then from KW792.

 

43 IID serials identified as to USSR between HW866 and KX866 (the last IID), actually 46 handed over, 14 refused as having too many flying hours.
30 IV to USSR between LE748 and LF596 (the last IV)

[tempestfan]

4 hours ago, MarkoZG said:

What makes this photo even more interesting is that is shows a mix of Hurricane versions as the 4th machine in line is Mk.I. Furtheremore it seems there are some more Mk.Is down the row.

Indeed- #4 and 8 look to have a DH spinner, and #7 a short (Spitfire) Rotol. Mötley Crüe… no, that was something different;-)