Tornado GR1 and JP233- Any units not associated with this weapon system?

[Troffa]

I've asked this question elsewhere today, but thought I'd give the ever knowledgeable BM Hive mind a shot-

 

I'm in the planning stages of a Tornado GR1, I want to do a mid/ late 1980's jet, in standard Green/ Grey camouflage from a UK or RAFG Based Squadron- are there any units that would not have been JP233 equipped ?  Any Specialist JP233 Delivery squadrons? or can I sling the launchers on any Squadron cab without fear of critique?

 

Cheers for looking.

 

Troffa

 

 

[tempestfan]

Interesting question - I do not know, but my guess would be that the JP would primarily have been an RAFG thing, to devastate airfields into Poland, Belarus or thereabouts, as far to the East as possible, with the UK squadrons being there to nuke if required. But as I said, only a guess.

[Selwyn]

They could be delivered by all tornado aircraft so i assume all squadrons could use it if required.

 

Selwyn

[Hook]

Incidentally, while on the topic - Eduards new 1/72nd JP233 is pretty lovely. The instructions would have you paint them olive drab, however - since Selwyn is present, I would think  BS Deep Bronze Green would be more apptopiate..?

 

Cheers,

 

Andrd

[RichG]

In his book Tornado GR1 An Operational History Michael Napier provides some interesting insight:

 

"Aircraft not required for strike (i.e. nuclear) operations under the prevailing (SACEUR) Force Generation Level were released for conventional attack operations. In wartime it meant flying pre-planned missions and once these had been completed responding to on-call tasking... The main pre-planned task for RAFG Tornado units was "Option Alpha" designed to neutralise the main Warsaw Pact airfields in the DDR... and also long range SAM-5 sites... Broadly the plan was to use JP233 against the airfields and 1,000lb bombs against the SAM-5 sites. The UK based Tornado squadrons were also included in the overall Option Alpha plan but they would have required AAR support in order to reach their targets.  

 

However the pre-planned "Option" for 20 Squadron was slightly different: "Option Lima" involved using Laser Guided Bombs to destroy the key bridges principly over the Elbe and Weser to deny them to advancing Warsaw Pact forces.... In order to carry the LGBs, the Tornados were fitted with modified shoulder pylons and also a centreline under-fuselage pylon enabling three weapons to be carried, these extra pylons were only fitted to the aircraft of 16 and 20 squadrons which were nominated as "specialist" LGB squadrons."

 

It's an interesting book, well worth reading. I've precised this section a little as it goes into more detail, likely targets, attack profiles etc,  but it looks like 20 (and possibly 16) squadron may have been the exceptions for JP233 tasking.

 

Hope that helps

 

Rich 

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by RichG

[Troffa]

You lot are simply amazing! Great help and advice, it is very much appreciated. 

 

Thanks,

 

Troffa

[Sundowner14]

Nothing to stop you putting JP on any RAF Tornado (I was asked to model a 16 Sqn Jet by a Navigator mate a number of years ago). The only thing to bear in mind with JP233 is that it’s first use and apart from trials, first flights, were during Op GRANBY in 1991; Desert Storm. I’d recommend this article https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/38745/how-british-tornados-used-a-special-weapon-to-ravage-saddams-airfields-in-daring-desert-storm-raids and to quote from it;

 

Despite operational evaluation trials conducted in the U.S., none of the frontline RAF Tornado squadrons had used JP233 until it was broken out of its crates in preparation to be used in anger over Iraq’s airfields in 1991. Indeed, there weren’t even any training rounds with which to simulate its carriage, they were all live rounds. Practice was restricted to the simulator or to carrying fuel tanks under the fuselage.

 

[Graham Boak]

My understanding is that only some Tornados were fitted with the necessary beams to carry JP233: I'm not clear as to whether these were used to equip certain squadrons whereas others were retained for more (or less!) conventional roles.

[Selwyn]

1 hour ago, Hook said:

Incidentally, while on the topic - Eduards new 1/72nd JP233 is pretty lovely. The instructions would have you paint them olive drab, however - since Selwyn is present, I would think  BS Deep Bronze Green would be more apptopiate..?

 

Cheers,

 

Andrd

Deep bronze green with bands of yellow diamonds around them (band denotes contains explosive submunitions)

 

Selwyn

[Selwyn]

22 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

My understanding is that only some Tornados were fitted with the necessary beams to carry JP233: I'm not clear as to whether these were used to equip certain squadrons whereas others were retained for more (or less!) conventional roles.

They were not carried on Beams Graham, they used the shoulder pylons, the cratering section was mounted on the HEDERU the mine section on the LEDERU via MACE lugs.

 

Selwyn

[RAF4EVER]

I spent 5 1/2 years building the rear section [the bomb carrying part]1984-1989, at ML Aviation in Slough.

[Phone Phixer]

5 hours ago, RichG said:

However the pre-planned "Option" for 20 Squadron was slightly different: "Option Lima" involved using Laser Guided Bombs to destroy the key bridges principly over the Elbe and Weser to deny them to advancing Warsaw Pact forces.... In order to carry the LGBs, the Tornados were fitted with modified shoulder pylons and also a centreline under-fuselage pylon enabling three weapons to be carried, these extra pylons were only fitted to the aircraft of 16 and 20 squadrons which were nominated as "specialist" LGB squadrons."

I was on 237 OCU Buccaneers 1984-6. Our war role was to go out to Laarbruch and designate targets for LGB attacks. It was always 20 Sqn we worked with. They also came to Lossie on detachment to drop live Paveway II's on Garvey island.

[Hook]

9 hours ago, Selwyn said:

Deep bronze green with bands of yellow diamonds around them 

Thanks! We're lucky to have so much information straight from the horses mouth here.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[exdraken]

6 hours ago, Phone Phixer said:

I was on 237 OCU Buccaneers 1984-6. Our war role was to go out to Laarbruch and designate targets for LGB attacks. It was always 20 Sqn we worked with. They also came to Lossie on detachment to drop live Paveway II's on Garvey island.

So Buccs would have done the designation. Thanks!.. Tornados only could do so themselves from the late Gulf War, no?

[alhenderson]

42 minutes ago, exdraken said:

So Buccs would have done the designation. Thanks!.. Tornados only could do so themselves from the late Gulf War, no?

I think the two development TIALD pods that were delivered to theatre later on in Granby were the first laser designators used by Tornados.

 

Al.

[BillF67]

Minor point I know but JP233 could only be loaded to modified pylons - additional electrics needed - so saying any Tornado could carry them is a little misleading.

[Jabba]

10 hours ago, alhenderson said:

I think the two development TIALD pods that were delivered to theatre later on in Granby were the first laser designators used by Tornados.

 

Al.

Correct, "Sandra" and "Tracy".

[Slater]

It's interesting to hear the term "Option Alpha" after all these years. At RAF Upper Heyford in the early 1980's our Option Alpha loads were CBU-58 and CBU-71 (IIRC). Never knew that it was a multi-nation tasking.