How are the mighty fallen! - British Mk. V Tank - FINISHED, COMPLETED AND DONE!

[Bertie McBoatface]

9 hours ago, Pig of the Week said:

Nicely worked out philosophy behind the whole scenario 👍

Looking forward to this developing.

 

Thanks for that! 

 

 

9 hours ago, Pig of the Week said:

As regards rivets, what would look very effective would be some of the riveted joints blown apart with the halves twisted and holes drilled where the rivets once were.. I'd think in reality the joints would likely have failed along the rivet line.

There's probably lots of pics online of riveted steel vessels that have exploded or whatever to reference !

 

Yes, I agree. I'll have a look around. The structure would fail at the joints for sure, but whether the plates or the rivets would fail is less clear to me.  

 

[Bertie McBoatface]

I have been wheely busy, and if you are an armour modeller, you'll know what that means.

 

 

I turned my attention to the wheels. I'm making the side frames, or at least one of them, can't actually remember which one. So I'm going to need some wheels. There are a lot on this un-sprung, un-tired, monster - 27 roadwheels per side (two different types) plus an idler and a drive sprocket. The noise when it was all in motion must have been just awful; real 'fingernails on a blackboard' stuff.

 

With over 150 separate plastic parts to deal with, I thought I'd do the lot in one big session. 

 

 

There were four sprues of roadwheels and they had this weird arrangement of thin bits. I was on my third sprue before realising that the nice people at Meng expected me to cut the sprues here to give me better access to the wheels. Meng kits are intended for people with intelligence and that's taking a bit of getting used to. Similarly, the instructions tell you all you need to know but you have to study them really carefully. In my defense, I'm relatively new to armour moddelling so there's a bit of inexperience at play as well as the complacency and lack of diligence.  🙆‍♂️

 

 

I gave the idlers a bit of a battering. There are hard bits in the chalky soil.

 

 

And the sprockets lost a few teeth. Well I have; why shouldn't they?

 

 

It was unlikely that I would have the strength of character to damage this lot so I just cut them off the sprues a little bit carelessly. They won't be very visible so I've given myself a free pass on this point.

 

 

Ready for paint. (Ignore the gearboxes with the chains, they are just along for the ride. I cut them from the sprues a little early.) I painted the wheels in Tamiya Khaki which is a good green/brown colour. For this part of the painting process I added a little yellow as I want my major components to each have subtly different shades of paint to give the impression of an 'assembled object'. I didn't photograph the result because they didn't look much different and it slipped my mind, sorry.

 

 

After base coats my mind turned to washes. At first I was going to apply dark colour for shadows but then I thought I'd get a start on the weathering and fill the recesses with dust. The diorama takes place in the summer on chalky soil so it's dusty not muddy that I'm traying to achieve. I started off with the two Humbrol colours but they were too dark so I cursed myself for forgetting the oil paints that I spent so much on last year.

 

"Wait a min, Psmiffy. Can you mix them?"

 

Well, can you? I had no idea. I've never seen it done. The answer is yes. No problem at all. The oil in the mixture perhaps made the wash a little creamier and better flowing, the enamels maybe speeded up the drying, which was unusually quick. Whatever the chemistry, don't be scared to experiment, it works.

 

 

Not bad eh?

 

 

Not so visible on those roadwheels but still a lot better than plain brown.

 

 

My next step in the process used this. Humbrol Metal Cote Steel. I think it's one of the great forgotten paints for moddelling. Basically it's grey, like steel, but it has some graphite powder included so that when it's dry, you can polish it with a duster. You get the same effect as using a soft pencil on the edges of metal things, which also looks fab, but would take ages. Metal Cote Steel can be dry-brushed as you see. 

 

 

Polishing them all took a long time but I didn't need to look at them after the first one or two so I could enjoy Dr Who for the hour that it took. I've never had a result like this, never used exactly this combination of techniques. I can't recall ever seeing anything like it anywhere else either. It took me a while to make up my mind but I have decided that I like it. The khaki paint has worn off rather than chipped so the appearance is a bit 'unfashionable' in today's moddelling, but it makes sense to me at least.

 

What do you think, do they seem plausible for steel wheels running without lubrication for miles on a dirty steel track?

 

 

[JeroenS]

8 minutes ago, Bertie Psmith said:

What do you think, do they seem plausible for steel wheels running without lubrication for miles on a dirty steel track?

I have no idea, but it looks really nice. 

[Bertie McBoatface]

3 minutes ago, JeroenS said:

I have no idea, but it looks really nice.

 

Wheely, wheely nice? 😉

[Pig of the Week]

They're more "rollers" than wheels, wheely....

( or "wollers".. )

[Bertie McBoatface]

 

My Mk V session today has largely been concerned with this one piece. It's a part of the structure of what I'm calling the side frames, being one of the sides of the hole where the sponson fits. There's a photo later that makes it all clear. It's another ammo storage with shells for the 3in gun at the bottom and nine boxes of MG ammo above. As usual I want to use up some of the ammo. I skipped photographing the drilling out of the shells as you've seen it already. The only difference was that this time I used a slightly smaller drill and made a neater job of it - faster too.

 

 

We probably have viewers who may be unsure how to cut out square holes in a kit. This is my method. First I drill a few holes to give me an avenue of attack with my scalpels. One of them wandered dangerously, as you see, but I got away with it this time.

 

 

Now I can get the point of a sharp scalpel into the holes and carve and scrape them larger.

 

 

I avoid going into the corners as long as possible. I find that they are easy to do at the end but if I cut that far at the start, I will always over-run my line. The hole is now big enough for a file.

 

 

These small files are designed for metal and plastic clogs the teeth very quickly if you press too hard. Keep a light touch and check every few strokes to see what's happening. If your file is clogged, a wire brush may clean it and as a last resort, a soaking in cellulose thinners or xylene will dissolve the plastic from the teeth. Last resort because it stinks - leave it to soak outside.

 

 

That's as close as I dare go with the file. Now it's back to the scalpel, cutting and scraping very gently.

 

 

And there it is, done. (I believe I went back into the corners after  taking this photo)

 

 

With the other two ammo box lids removed, this is roughly where the plate will fit. Yo are looking from the inside of the tank. I think that piece looks more interesting now. It's telling a tiny story about the things that happened to the tank and crew before the catastrophe. Ammunition was used, fighting happened, more ammo was transferred from the big store aft of the sponson to these ready-use storages so there were lulls in the action. Small details in the story, small details on the kit.

 

I hope this will be visible through the burst roof, but if not it was a fun way to spend an hour. The first hole took twice as long as the others and the other side will be much faster again. It's just a matter of finding the efficient way. My phone alarm went off in the middle of this. It was eight feet away from me and would have sounded for ten minutes at least - I was so focussed on the model that I never heard a thing!

 

I'm guessing that the holes I've cut would have led into fixed boxes for the storage of the ammo boxes. I'm going to have to make at least the bottoms and outboard sides of them out of plasticard. I hadn't planned this from the start but it shouldn't be too difficult.

 

 

This is the back. That oval inspection hatch with it's internal girders is in the way a bit. Another example of my lack of foresight, dammit.

 

 

From the front with that girder structure installed. Had I done this to begin with I would have removed different boxes. Oh well, live and learn.

 

 

Inspired by my slight failure to plan the ammo boxes, I decided to have a look at the radiator and fan. Its a big unit that sucks air in from the port side and blows it through the radiator to starboard before venting out of that side. Meng moulded the blades of the centrifugal fan which is not going to be visible in my version. Its a nice bit of work though, I'm impressed. Well done Meng!

 

 

It's a pity that they didn't provide an actual radiator, which will be visible in my torn open starboard rear quarter. So that's another little bit of scratch building for me to enjoy. This project is certainly teaching me some new skills. I'm really pleased to have worked this out before I stuck it all in place. I've lived and apparently learnt something. 🙂

 

 

[Bertie McBoatface]

That radiator. I forgot to mention that the radiator was one of the supposed improvements over the Mk IV, which had a fan but took its intake air from the inside of the fighting compartment. This made the cooling a little less inefficient but at least cleared out some of the fumes from the engine and the guns and cooled the men a little. In the Mk V the engine may have run cooler but the air breathed by the crew was indescribably foul leading to crews passing out and tanks going into action with the doors open for a bit of fresh air!

[Model Mate]

Excellent progress Bertie - some great work going on! I’m loving the battle damage.
I’ve struggled to find metalcote paint recently, and it has a tendency to go off (dry up and go hard) rather quickly from memory as well as brushing really badly. I’ve found that mixing a bit of rub’n buff (or any other wax based metal paste/polish I guess) with dark grey enamel paint works in a very similar way but can be thinned much more.

[Bertie McBoatface]

1 hour ago, Model Mate said:

Excellent progress Bertie - some great work going on! I’m loving the battle damage.
I’ve struggled to find metalcote paint recently, and it has a tendency to go off (dry up and go hard) rather quickly from memory as well as brushing really badly. I’ve found that mixing a bit of rub’n buff (or any other wax based metal paste/polish I guess) with dark grey enamel paint works in a very similar way but can be thinned much more.

Thanks Mate.

 

Yes, Metal Cote is a swine for apparently drying up. I find that the graphite settles at the bottom and needs a lot of stirring to turn it liquid again. I've got a pot of graphite powder so I may well make my own if supplies 'dry up'. I've had my tinlet for decades so I don't know about current availability, though it's still listed by Humbrol.

[Bertie McBoatface]

I'm sorry to be posting such a tiny update today. I'm slightly unwell with one of those minor things that makes your brain not work very well so I'm finding everything about this project a bit overwhelming right now. I hope your expectations aren't based on my overactive imagination because there are dozens of things about this that I have no idea how to tackle. Yet.

 

 

Working out those angles was, as you see, quite a challenge. lol.

 

 

However, I think it will do the job and suggest shelves/compartments for the ammo boxes. 

 

And that's it for now. I'll be back on form in a few days when I'll tell you some of the ideas I've had while laid up.

 

[echen]

43 minutes ago, Bertie Psmith said:

I'm slightly unwell

Hope you're soon feeling fully fit.

[Pig of the Week]

Your empty ammo stowage is a nice bit of detail, hope you feel better ASAP 👍

[Carius]

Good job with the ammo stowage indeed.

 

Get better soon,

 

Cesar

[Bertie McBoatface]

On 10/4/2021 at 1:06 PM, echen said:

Hope you're soon feeling fully fit.

 

17 hours ago, Pig of the Week said:

Your empty ammo stowage is a nice bit of detail, hope you feel better ASAP 👍

 

15 hours ago, Carius said:

Good job with the ammo stowage indeed.

 

Get better soon,

 

Cesar

 

Thanks guys, for the well wishing and comments on the stowage. I'm a lot better today and as it's been raining heavily all day I've been convalescing at home and  been at the bench for quite some time, on this and the French projects. I've gotten a lot done.

 

 

This is the port side brake mechanism which sits on the output shaft from the main gearbox, at the point where the drive changes from shaft to chain in the side plate 'sandwich'. Isn't that a terrific example of kit moulding - all that detail and only three pieces, one of which is invisible between the two wheelie things. Shall I show you how much is visible on a normal build?

 

 

That much. 

 

On the stbd side there will be a lot of burst plating around this point revealing some of these innards but this side is redundant so I'm not going to bother about painting it properly!  Tonight I'll spray some interior white around the place and call it done, thus moving the build forward by a week. 

 

 

I need the white paint because of the see through effect from inside the tank. I'm now thinking that the shell storages ought to be cased in like the mg ammo boxes but with so much stuff behind that wall making access difficult, I think I'm justified in 'forgetting' that detail. This rear port corner won't be particularly visible at the end anyway.

 

 

Here you see another gearbox where the chain drive reverts to a cogwheel which impinges (I love that word) directly onto the sprocket wheel. It's all glued in. Can you spot my not-so-deliberate mistake?

 

 

That's right. I forgot this bit. I tore off the gearbox and got it fitted with only a little bit of a mess, as you see. Now the problem was the impossibility of painting around that area in khaki without doing the sprocket all over again. Annoyance!

 

 

But if I did this, I could remove and refit the sprocket at will, rotating the cut portion out of sight as I did so. So I didn't need to mangle the gearbox gluings at all then! Very annoyance!

 

 

This is the current situation. I'll spray the insides of the 'sandwich' white and the bits where the wheels run will be khaki + dust + steel worn areas. A fairly quick job as I aim to fit the track on this side so there won't be a lot showing. In fact this side of the tank will be rather like a before photo in one of those 'before and after' presentations with the rest of the thing smashed to bits.

 

 

And THAT means I don't have to do the photo etch on this side. I'm not a big fan of PE (of either kind) so that's a bonus indeed.

 

Right, the sun has decided to shine for a moment or two, so I'll take the dog out and maybe report in last thing, if I remain this motivated after tea.

 

 

[Pig of the Week]

 Glad you're feeling a bit better 👍

Love all the chain drive and braking gubbins, I can just see the components of that shattered and strewn around

I bet the chain drive was a real pain in usage, always out of adjustment and breaking I'd imagine !

[Bertie McBoatface]

1 minute ago, Pig of the Week said:

I bet the chain drive was a real pain in usage, always out of adjustment and breaking I'd imagine !

 

It seems strange to be hauling a tank along with a 'bicycle chain' but actually, in all my reading it's not been mentioned as a dodgy component. All of the lozenge tanks had chains and I guess they were pretty experienced in the design office by the Mk V. I know they used gallons and gallons of grease on these things, maybe that was the secret.

[Pig of the Week]

15 minutes ago, Bertie Psmith said:

 

It seems strange to be hauling a tank along with a 'bicycle chain' but actually, in all my reading it's not been mentioned as a dodgy component. All of the lozenge tanks had chains and I guess they were pretty experienced in the design office by the Mk V. I know they used gallons and gallons of grease on these things, maybe that was the secret.

Certainly many of the trucks and lorries of that period and before had chain drive to a sprocket on each side of the axle, so I guess it was a familiar method of transmission.

Many years ago we found the disintegrated scant remains of such a chain drive truck in some woods, unfortunately there wasn't enough left to rescue and rebuild

[Bertie McBoatface]

4 minutes ago, Pig of the Week said:

many of the trucks and lorries of that period and before had chain drive

 

Indeed, now I think on, there were many examples of really heavy Victorian machines with chains right up to the 2,000 horsepower SS Great Britain of the 1840s.

[Bertie McBoatface]

 

Well I did find enough energy to splash some paint around. (I photographed the bottles to remind myself later, what I've used so far.)

 

 

 

I'm rather pleased with that off white interior colour. No time to do anything else tonight. See you tomorrow!

 

 

 

 

[Bertie McBoatface]

 

This area is a bit boring, isn't it? There's nothing in the way of a little damage practice.

 

 

Here's my weapon of choice.

 

 

I thinned down the plastic and then punched through with a sharp implement.

 

 

The next hole was to stop at the panel line so I cut that first with a razor saw.

 

 

And then thinned up to the line.

 

     

 

Interesting, I thought. When I paint it I'll be able to show the red white red markings flaking away from the impacts.

 

 

I painted and polished the track runs while they were getatable, but its all going to be hidden, assuming that I follow the plan and leave the track on this side. It's useful practice for the other one though, which is going to be severely mangled. I've found a photograph of some useful damage which I want to incorporate but I'm keeping that to myself until later, for dramatic reasons. Believe me, it's very dramatic and much better than my lame 'sponson fallen off' plan. 

 

 

Some random splinter damage to intensify the planned chipping. The chipping on the inside will be waaay over the top!

 

 

Lining all of those axles up with their sockets was, how shall I put it, interesting! 

 

So we now have a completed side plate assembly to build upon. Next will be the back end with the fuel tanks, the floor, and then the port sponson. They will all have some small modifications carried out by impact damage but only of a minor nature. After that everything will be a shambles and on purpose, for once in my moddelling career.

 

[metadyne]

This is just an amazing build, the fascinating thing about a full interior build is that you get to see all the internal mysteries in detailed close up, great project.

You mentioned earlier about the complexities of how explosions bend things, I can offer some insight there. I worked in Forensic investigation for 20 years and attended many seminars on Terrorist bomb scenes, High explosive such as semtex tend to shred the steel of the vehicle born IED, Whereas low explosive such as Black powder, or the low yield burning propellant in fireworks, that have been used by terrorists to make IEDs, tend to bend and bulge the metal of a van. We were shown many examples and the high explosives generate gas at a much faster rate causing the vehicle bodywork to shatter and fly out as sharpnel at a higher velocity.

Great work with the model, keep it coming.

[Pig of the Week]

Some nice damage there 👍 .. With the one thats torn at the seam, I'm wondering if there would've been a widish flat bar behind the seam for both lines of rivets to fasten the two plates together ?  More scope for mangled twisted metal

[Bertie McBoatface]

56 minutes ago, metadyne said:

This is just an amazing build, the fascinating thing about a full interior build is that you get to see all the internal mysteries in detailed close up, great project.

You mentioned earlier about the complexities of how explosions bend things, I can offer some insight there. I worked in Forensic investigation for 20 years and attended many seminars on Terrorist bomb scenes, High explosive such as semtex tend to shred the steel of the vehicle born IED, Whereas low explosive such as Black powder, or the low yield burning propellant in fireworks, that have been used by terrorists to make IEDs, tend to bend and bulge the metal of a van. We were shown many examples and the high explosives generate gas at a much faster rate causing the vehicle bodywork to shatter and fly out as sharpnel at a higher velocity.

Great work with the model, keep it coming.

 

Thank you. Yes, I'm enjoying seeing how the various systems worked and fitted together. I'm learning a lot form this. It's my first full interior AFV and I suspect, not my last.

 

Thanks for the tech info too. I've seen bulged WWI tanks following internal explosions which supports this theory and the fact that WWI explosives weren't that 'high' as those developed for the WWII. There is also some shattering visible on the old photos so I guess explosives tech and armour plate metallurgy were in a race. It gives me carte blanche to do whatever I want to really. 🙂

 

26 minutes ago, Pig of the Week said:

Some nice damage there 👍 .. With the one thats torn at the seam, I'm wondering if there would've been a widish flat bar behind the seam for both lines of rivets to fasten the two plates together ?  More scope for mangled twisted metal

 

Yes, thanks for that. It would have been neat to do as you suggest. Too late for this particular wound as the rear is now inaccessible, darn it. It was late and I wasn't thinking particularly well. 😏 Didn't we actually discuss this idea a few posts back? D'oh! Maybe this will learn me!

[Pig of the Week]

We did briefly discuss burst rivets and the like a while back !

Of course with that particular "wound" a projectile could have caught the backing bar/plate whatever and pushed it inwards hence you cant see it

Be interesting if you could find some constructional diagrams for one of these to see how they were actually fixed together, and what bracing / framing etc was behind the plates... Probably not that easy to find original factory or design drawings though..

Edited October 8, 2021 by Pig of the Week

[Bertie McBoatface]

30 minutes ago, Pig of the Week said:

We did briefly discuss burst rivets and the like a while back !

 

Remind me in advance next time, will you please?