Dunny Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 Hi All, I'm about to embark on Special Hobby's 1:72 Boston MkIII 'Intruder'. I'm intending to model it as AL468 of 418 'City of Edmonton' Sqn RCAF, which was based at RAF Bradwell Bay in Essex, December 1942 to June 1943. SH depicts the scheme shown: SH call out Ocean Grey and Dark Green over Night, but my question is this: surely this type of aircraft would have worn the 'Night Fighter' scheme of Medium Sea Grey and Dark Green over Night? I can only find photos of this aircraft in overall Night, so I humbly beseech the hive mind for further clarification - surely @tonyot or @dogsbody will know? Thanks in advance for any assistance rendered, Roger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EwenS Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 The old Ducimus book covered the Havoc/Boston intruders. In 1941 A&AEE ran a series of trials with special schemes similar to that above but they came to nothing. It goes on to note that Mossie intruders were MSG/Green upper surfaces with black lower surfaces and that some Boston intruders were similarly painted but no photos or references in squadron records. But 605 might have had some such aircraft. See page 23 It is possible that your scheme existed but possibly as only a “one off”. Given that intruders operated at low level and would need camouflaged from prying eyes above a darker Ocean Grey actually makes more sense the MSG. So maybe someone tried it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted August 28, 2021 Author Share Posted August 28, 2021 17 minutes ago, EwenS said: The old Ducimus book covered the Havoc/Boston intruders. In 1941 A&AEE ran a series of trials with special schemes similar to that above but they came to nothing. It goes on to note that Mossie intruders were MSG/Green upper surfaces with black lower surfaces and that some Boston intruders were similarly painted but no photos or references in squadron records. But 605 might have had some such aircraft. See page 23 It is possible that your scheme existed but possibly as only a “one off”. Given that intruders operated at low level and would need camouflaged from prying eyes above a darker Ocean Grey actually makes more sense the MSG. So maybe someone tried it. Thanks for that Ewen. Although it is possible that it was a one-off, at this stage I'm leaning towards the 'standard' scheme (of course someone will now prove me wrong!) Cheers, Roger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 There was an article on Intruder Hurricanes in Model Aircraft Monthly Jan 2008 which gives more detail of the trials, including the note that 12 Group ran their own trials independently of the Fighter Command ones. No mention of Bostons though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 (edited) Hi I suppose there is always the chance that being a canadian squadron, that the different scheme was used think DK decals did the same scheme on their night intruders sheet https://www.scalemates.com/kits/dk-decals-72068-night-intruders-part-2--1184532 aviaeology link here https://www.aviaeology.com/store/p154/AviaDossier-1_Canadian-Aircraft-of-WWII.html#/ it states the aicraft came from 605 Sqn to 418, 605 had been doing camo trials cheers jerry Edited August 28, 2021 by brewerjerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted August 28, 2021 Author Share Posted August 28, 2021 Just now, brewerjerry said: Hi I suppose there is always the chance that being a canadian squadron, that the different scheme was used think DK decals did the same scheme on their night intruders sheet https://www.scalemates.com/kits/dk-decals-72068-night-intruders-part-2--1184532 cheers jerry Thanks Jerry, I since noted the same thing - maybe I will go for it just so it looks different, Cheers, Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 I don't have any thing to add. The few photos I did find in Warpaint # 32 only showed an overall Night colour. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 I had always thought that it was MSG/DG,..... but this aircraft wa involved in camo trials and Terry at Aviaology convinced me that it wa indeed Ocean Grey and Dark Green. There is a photo here; http://silverhawkauthor.com/canadian-warplanes-3-douglas-boston_735.html Some Hurricane Intruders also wore Ocean Grey and Dark Green camo too,... Good luck with the model mate, Tony 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 Hi Nice photo thanks for posting i have fancied doing a speculative 137 Sqn whirlwind intruder in these colours cheers jerry 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted August 28, 2021 Author Share Posted August 28, 2021 3 hours ago, tonyot said: I had always thought that it was MSG/DG,..... but this aircraft wa involved in camo trials and Terry at Aviaology convinced me that it wa indeed Ocean Grey and Dark Green. There is a photo here; http://silverhawkauthor.com/canadian-warplanes-3-douglas-boston_735.html Some Hurricane Intruders also wore Ocean Grey and Dark Green camo too,... Good luck with the model mate, Tony Thanks Tony, I have received the same information and am now going to go with OG/DG over Night. I am also going to omit the ventral gun pack, which was phased out by 418 during this period. Thanks for the steer, Cheers, Roger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 On 8/28/2021 at 8:20 AM, rossm said: There was an article on Intruder Hurricanes in Model Aircraft Monthly Jan 2008 which gives more detail of the trials, including the note that 12 Group ran their own trials independently of the Fighter Command ones. No mention of Bostons though. Having now seen that photo - just to muddy the waters - the Fighter Command trials mentioned in the article found Dark Green and Dark Earth gave the best results! The article does say it was decided not to use this scheme though and Beaufighters seem to have been the aircraft used for the trials. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 @Carl V has asked me to post these Boston photos: Here are some of my photos of 418 RCAF Squadron’s Bostons which may be of interest to modellers. All are from RCAF negatives held by Library and Archives Canada and are in the public domain although LAC appreciates a credit if any are published. Photo 2 is a high-res zoom from Photo 1. The overseas roundel seen in Photo 3 is light blue with a dark blue outer ring and a red black-veined maple leaf in the centre. I am fortunate enough to have an actual example of one of these. They were supplied and applied in decal form. Carl Chris, for Carl 3 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Hi thanks for posting nice photo of 'victoria' with modified fuselage roundel cheers jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted August 30, 2021 Author Share Posted August 30, 2021 7 hours ago, dogsbody said: @Carl V has asked me to post these Boston photos: Here are some of my photos of 418 RCAF Squadron’s Bostons which may be of interest to modellers. All are from RCAF negatives held by Library and Archives Canada and are in the public domain although LAC appreciates a credit if any are published. Photo 2 is a high-res zoom from Photo 1. The overseas roundel seen in Photo 3 is light blue with a dark blue outer ring and a red black-veined maple leaf in the centre. I am fortunate enough to have an actual example of one of these. They were supplied and applied in decal form. Carl Chris, for Carl Wow, some great images in there! Thanks very much Chris and @Carl V - much appreciated! Cheers, Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 What a goldmine - thanks to the both of you! I do not recall seeing that many pics of III's without the wheel dust covers before. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Hurribomber squadrons mixed day and night operations, so the standard Fighter Command scheme could readily be adapted for night operations with black distemper. I'm not sure how this applied to Bostons though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tail-Dragon Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 I have the old 1/48 MDC resin/vac/decal set (Hedgehog exhaust, gun pack, vac canopy and gunsight) that I never used as the decals for TH*O (ottawa) were unusably yellowed. I now see that DK Decals has the the experimental intruder scheme in 1/48 - excellent! Now, my question is, did TH*O, AL468 have the "Ottawa Ontario" script on the R/H side in this scheme? It is not included with the DK decals sheet, but is shown on the Special Hobby markings. The script is there when the all over Special Night scheme was applied. This is a great subject, by the way, and thanks to everyone that has shared info on it! It has revived my wish to have a companion to my 418 Sqdn intruder Mossie! ... the Special Hobby markings ... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 I'd speculate they took pride in the places and would either have masked the "ttawa Ontario", or repainted it. But am I seeing things, or is there a blister on the port nose of Ottawa, starting roughly in line with the bombardier's rear glazing, just above the gun blister? If it's not an illusion, I don't think it's a standard feature. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 I'm not seeing it... yet? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 I believe to see it in the 2nd picture Chris posted; it may be the panel just behind the neck of the bloke pointing at the swastika in the next pic, but then it appears that O had the gun blister removed when that pic was taken, so the panel visible probably is the access panel to the internal 303 - otherwise, Alcorn/Bentley do not suppose to have a panel in the vicinity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Ah, now I see. I can verify [sic] that THAT is a "Hmm..." 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt-92 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 49 minutes ago, tempestfan said: but then it appears that O had the gun blister removed when that pic was taken You mean that cover that is just visible behind our chap's back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 minute ago, alt-92 said: The rear of the blister fairing is just visible behind our chap's back. I don't think that's the blister fairing, as that would extend beyond a vertical line drawn from the rear end of the windshield, and would be in plain sight between the guys. I think the small panel visible behind the neck is, as stated the 303 access panel normally covered by the gun blister. But then the perceived small blister isn't to be seen in this close up (but I think would be just in sight if t was there). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt-92 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Yes. I see my edit reason didn't come through, but re-reading it I'd go for that. Whatever bulge or blob that would have been should be right behind his head. The lighter paint patch also doesn't line up... perhaps the distinguishing marks did not go past the censor? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Yes, probably, or visible just to the left. If it was there, it would be just behind the nose break, which is well visible. As you say, a lot of details do not quite match between the pics. I can see no real reason for any censorship on the in-flight pic, though (which possibly could explain the effect), and the close up does not look particularly messed-about-with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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