Alfa 8C wire wheels anyone?

[nick]

I had a spare morning waiting for some F40 engine pictures and measurements to arrive from Belgium, so I’ve been considering having a crack at wire wheels for some time, largely because once you’ve figured the technique out, they’re all pretty much all  the same. 
 

Anyhoo, here’s what dropped out after a few hours of tinkering with fusion 360

 

 

I’m just working on how to reliably print them. Starting with pressing go and seeing what happens. I had no expectation of this working but my trusty little printer had a valiant go at it. Bless 

 

 

nearly in fairness. If nothing else it has shown me scale thickness wires will be too weak at this scale so I now I have a version with a built-in jig and keying system, that uses .3mm wire and an accurately angled, separate scale nipple system for the rims. 
 

let’s face it when the sniggering dies down, who doesn’t love an accurately angled scale nipple system. 
 

I shall continue the research, although I have my F40 data now too.

 

Watch this space.

 

Nick 

 

[nick]

OK here comes version 2, I think this will work...

 

 

After all, wire wheels really should have wire.

 

Nick

[nick]

We don't mind a bit of stringing do we?

 

Nick

[nick]

Small setback in as much as I've just trashed my printer.

 

Dropped the build plate in the VAT last night, which it turns out both punctured the FEP AND cracked the screen.

 

On the plus side I don't need to try and get cured resin off the screen as I need a new one anyway.

 

Amazon willing, new screen arriving tomorrow.

 

More CAD today then.

[Malc2]

These rims look great.

I can think of several applications, you could even do the correct size rims and tyres for the Italeri Fiat 806.

Plus the 1/12 Airfix Bentley of course!

 

Broke my favourite coffee cup yesterday, so I know how you feel............

 

M.

[nick]

1 hour ago, Malc2 said:

These rims look great.

I can think of several applications, you could even do the correct size rims and tyres for the Italeri Fiat 806.

Plus the 1/12 Airfix Bentley of course!

 

Broke my favourite coffee cup yesterday, so I know how you feel............

 

M.

Yes that’s my plan, if my ‘system’ works, I can apply it to many things. 
 

The physical limitations are .3mm wire which is dead on scale for 1/12 Alfa wheels, skinny for other things. The plug-in nipple system (I really need a new name for this!) just about prints reliably this small, so that’s the limiting factor. 
 

I reckon the Alfa has about the skinniest spokes, which is one reason I chose it, Bentley etc, should be a walk in the park. 1/8 stuff even easier. 
 

I guess I could slightly out of scale with smaller stuff, but goes against the grain!

 

Sorry about your cup! 😳😎👍

 

Nick

[Pouln]

They do look great, Nick. 

Can I borrow the hub caps with Alfa logo’s from you? They are much, much better than the caps Pocher supplies. 

Would be great if you could send the f360 files for these. 

[nick]

So the printer is back up and running with a new screen thanks to the Amazon Elves turning up on time, so my version 2 print has come off after a days delay. 

 

Ive got a little tweaking to do with the holes, threads and assembly sequence, but a good start. 
 

these things are never going to be shake and bake, but hopefully will be worth the effort!

 

stay tuned, I may have some pictures tomorrow.

 

Nick

[nick]

Not finished and not quite right, but for a first attempt, I’m not unhappy.

 

 

heres the kit item

 

 

Alfas do have especially skinny wires, which is why I chose this for my first outing, if I can get my system to work with this, other stuff will be easy.

 

 

and here’s my patent, secret weapon, that I’ve designed and been going on about.

 

 

as well as being a jig, it also gives you the stringing for each of the 6 different spoke patterns, once you’ve done one, the pattern is obvious to follow.

 

an unforeseen element, is that these are actually really nice to make and can be done sat watching the telly with your better half, who would have thought? They are precise and repetitive though, if you’ve made proper tank tracks or motorcycle chains, same sort of thing.

 

anyway, stay tuned for version 2. 
 

Nick

 

 

 

[seadog]

Looking good! I've been debating either a Bentley or an Alfa 2300 and a jig would, of course make 'accurizing' wheels a lot less frustrating. I notice you're using brass wire, would steel not be less prone to unwanted bends? Great work, whatever!

[nick]

37 minutes ago, seadog said:

 I notice you're using brass wire, would steel not be less prone to unwanted bends? 

That’s a very good call, my prototype is purely based on the fact that I have a roll of .3 brass wire in the workshop and don’t have any steel.
 

To the virtual shops then!

 

Nick

[Malc2]

Love the fact you are showing us your prototypes including the mistakes!

All looking very promising.

Making the dimples in the rim for the spoke retainers was always going to be impossible for me modifying the kit parts, so this is going to be great.

 

M.

[nick]

12 minutes ago, Malc2 said:

Love the fact you are showing us your prototypes including the mistakes!

Mistakes!? You must be referring to my planned failures?
 

Edison failed to invent the light bulb about 10,000 times before he got it right, in his own words. 
 

You’ve started me off on my favourite rant now - I’m a big fan of failure, it shows you’re trying hard, people who never fail simply aren’t trying hard enough IMHO. 
 

I hired people using this philosophy for about twenty years and it worked pretty well

 

Nick

[seadog]

2 hours ago, nick said:

That’s a very good call, my prototype is purely based on the fact that I have a roll of .3 brass wire in the workshop and don’t have any steel.
 

To the virtual shops then!

 

Nick

I get wire for rigging from the Scientific Wire Co. They do useful stuff like white or black enameled copper wire, which is useful for ships... they do stainless wire too, not sure without looking what thicknesses are available, but if you don't have a better source they're worth a look

[Jochen Barett]

Gorgeous!

 

(May I throw the word "valve" into this thread? Or would that just reveal my ignorance?)

[Malc2]

1 hour ago, nick said:

Mistakes!? You must be referring to my planned failures?
 

Edison failed to invent the light bulb about 10,000 times before he got it right, in his own words. 
 

You’ve started me off on my favourite rant now - I’m a big fan of failure, it shows you’re trying hard, people who never fail simply aren’t trying hard enough IMHO. 
 

I hired people using this philosophy for about twenty years and it worked pretty well

 

Nick

 

Having worked in an Automotive development enviroment, you have no idea how relevant that is!

 

I planned to use piano wire, comes in straight lengths of about 1 meter.

 

M.

[nick]

1 hour ago, Jochen Barett said:

Gorgeous!

 

(May I throw the word "valve" into this thread? Or would that just reveal my ignorance?)

Yes I haven’t forgotten, just trying to find a decent image for a period one rather than making something up. 
 

Nick

[nick]

37 minutes ago, Malc2 said:

 

Having worked in an Automotive development enviroment, you have no idea how relevant that is!

 

I planned to use piano wire, comes in straight lengths of about 1 meter.

 

M.

I’ve some 32SWG florists wire which might be OK and comes in straight lengths. 

[Mumbly]

I would look at entomology pins as well.  I used 0.5mm Piano wire on bike rims and can be too inflexible at times.  Have a look at these https://www.watdon.co.uk/acatalog/E6850-Continental-stainless-steel-pins-No0.html#SID=27.  They are 0.4mm, but are straight and soft enough for spoking for bikes and might be suitable.

 

Tony

[Malc2]

Hi Mumbly,

 

0.5mm is too large for this application, as Nick says - spokes need to be 32swg or 0.274mm for the Alfa, or at most 0.35mm for a Bentley which has thicker spokes.

Piano wire comes in lots of different diameters. (Plus I have some and use it a lot for aeromodelling, so am used to it!).

Each to his own though!

 

M.

 

[Brandy]

Very impressive!

I just completed the printed wheels on my 1:32 Matchbox Mercedes SSKL so I can appreciate your 3d work, and the time invested in adding the spokes!

Interesting idea re the built in jig too!

 

Ian

[Jo NZ]

On 28/08/2021 at 23:46, Malc2 said:

Hi Mumbly,

 

0.5mm is too large for this application, as Nick says - spokes need to be 32swg or 0.274mm for the Alfa, or at most 0.35mm for a Bentley which has thicker spokes.

Piano wire comes in lots of different diameters. (Plus I have some and use it a lot for aeromodelling, so am used to it!).

Each to his own though!

 

M.

 

What size are the spokes at 1:1? I'm guessing at 1/8" or 5/32", but I can't find the answer on the net....

[nick]

A step closer, The jig is working well apart from tangling with the CA on the spokes and not releasing properly.

 

 

I know there are a few stray spokes on this before anyone picks me up on it!

 

I'm just printed a new design now where I have tweaked the jig and release method which will hopefully solve the problem.

 

Nick

 

 

[Malc2]

18 hours ago, Jo NZ said:

What size are the spokes at 1:1? I'm guessing at 1/8" or 5/32", but I can't find the answer on the net....

 

Good question, previously I had been told for the Bentley about 4.5mm (11/64 in freedom units), but today I was at a car show, so measured the spoke diameter of a 1927 4L Bentley as a shade under 5mm (3/16), so 0.4 in 1/12 scale.

So apologies to @Mumbly, your pins are closer than I thought!

 

The Alfa spokes do appear thinner than the Bentley spokes in photos.

 

@nick - how much shrinkage (if any) do you get on the printed parts compared to the CAD data?

Latest iteration of wheel looks great!

Your work rate is phenominal.

 

M.

[nick]

So we know the spoke material is too soft, which leads to curly spokes. I have some steel one in the post.

 

That aside, I think I've cracked it.

 

 

The jig system works, the stringing system works, the separate nipples affair works, and it even parts from the jig without being destroyed. So curly spokes aside, I think I'm there.

 

I'm just priming it as we speak so more photos with paint to follow.

 

Regards,

 

Nick