1/72 Airfix Short Sunderland

[Ravnos]

Hi Guys,

 

Late entry here, I'm going with the  Airfix Sunderland for this one, I picked up the kit recently second hand, and while the box was a bit battered its otherwise untouched, bags all still sealed. (Even the Flying hours token was still there).

 

Obligatory sprue shot

 

I had heard that this kit was a bit rough around the edges, and honestly for the age of the tooling I wouldn't have expected anything else. While there is a bit of flash around the parts and a little warping it doesn't look like the big main parts will be too difficult to get together, Some of the smaller more detailed parts are a bit rough though so they are going to take some work.

 

Last night while assessing the kit and starting to plan it out in my head I taped the fuselage and the wings together to test the fit and to get a better sense of the size I'm working with.

 

The parts fit together better than I was expecting and hopefully wont require too much filler when I get around to gluing it up (famous last words). I'm also in two minds about whether or not to sand off the raised panel lines and rivets and try re-scribing them. the panel lines are pretty faint at the moment and I'm not sure they would even be visible under paint.

 

With each model I've built this year I've tried to add a new technique or learn a new skill along the way, I don't normally go out of my way to add interiors but I think given the cavernous interior of the Sunderland it needs..... Something. It would also be a good opportunity to dip my toes into aftermarket parts, specifically photoetch as its something I've been wanting to play with and I know there's a white ensign set for this kit. I'm not going to go crazy with scratch building an interior on the lower decks or areas that aren't visible in the completed model but the Cockpit is definitely an area that would benefit from some extra detail.

I know there is also a replacement glazing set from Squadron Canopies but I've no idea if its worth getting, if anyone's used it I'd love to know if it was significantly better than the stock clear parts, I've noticed that the turrets don't seem to have any frames on the clear parts and the nose turret only has one slot for a gun (I could have sworn the Sunderland had two in both the nose and the tail.)

 

That's all for now folks, I'll be ordering the PE bits and some paint in the next few days and will get an update posted when it all arrives.

[CliffB]

Welcome to the Group Build @Ravnos and I look forward to seeing what the postman brings you soon 

 

Cheers

[Ravnos]

26 minutes ago, CliffB said:

Welcome to the Group Build @Ravnos and I look forward to seeing what the postman brings you soon 

 

Cheers

Thanks Cliff I'm still furiously googling to see what else is available for the kit but it looks like the white ensign etch might be the extent of it.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Welcome aboard Ravnos

[RichG]

I loved the original box art for this kit- definitely in my all time top 10. Hadn't noticed that Airfix had re-released the kit in a new box at some point - probably should have been included in their "Classics" range - its approching its 60th! The new box art looks pretty good too though. Adam Tooby's work I guess. I really like his stuff and would love to commission something if I could afford it - probably cost a life-time of models. Looks like the original markings - hopefully Carograf decals now?

 

 

I think you are right, not much specifically for the old Airfix Sunderland apart from the White Ensign PE sets which I recall were pretty comprehensive and Squadron canopy/turret stuff. Both I feel sure will enhance the kit nicely - require a bit of work if its new for you - but there's the fun in learning new stuff. There was also however quite a bit of aftermarket stuff released for the more recent Italeri and Special Hobby Sunderland kits. I think Mk.III versions were issued in kit form by both (along with other marks). Its possible parts might work for the Airfix kit too. Here's what Scalemates list and what Hannants have on offer -

Scalemates

Hannants

 

Hope that helps.

 

Rich

Edited August 23, 2021 by RichG

[Ravnos]

Thanks Rich, I'd forgotten that scalemates had the "related products" section.

 

13 hours ago, RichG said:

hopefully Carograf decals now?

While the decals look nicely printed they don't have any branding on them anywhere so I'm not sure honestly.

 

Trawling through everything again I think I'm going to go with the WE etch and the Falcon canopies, according to the description they fix the issues with a couple of the turrets, (not saying the squadron ones don't but I couldn't find a description of them anywhere).

I was also going to look into brass gun barrels, I'm struggling a little though to figure out what guns should be in the turrets of a Mk3. the kit only has a single gun in the nose which I know is correct for the early Sunderlands but all the photographs I can find show double guns in the nose, (as does the box art and painting guide in the kit) and the falcon canopy kit mentions adding a second gun slot in the nose turret.

 

 

[PeterB]

7 hours ago, Ravnos said:

Thanks Rich, I'd forgotten that scalemates had the "related products" section.

 

While the decals look nicely printed they don't have any branding on them anywhere so I'm not sure honestly.

 

Trawling through everything again I think I'm going to go with the WE etch and the Falcon canopies, according to the description they fix the issues with a couple of the turrets, (not saying the squadron ones don't but I couldn't find a description of them anywhere).

I was also going to look into brass gun barrels, I'm struggling a little though to figure out what guns should be in the turrets of a Mk3. the kit only has a single gun in the nose which I know is correct for the early Sunderlands but all the photographs I can find show double guns in the nose, (as does the box art and painting guide in the kit) and the falcon canopy kit mentions adding a second gun slot in the nose turret.

 

 

I added a second gun barrel when I built my second one many years ago, at least I think it was the second. I got the first just after it came out in 1959 as a Christmas present - it cost 10/6 as I recall (52.5p for those not old enough to remember pre-decimal money) - depressing isn't it! It is not that bad a kit though the turret glazing is not brilliant. If you don't have the bomb racks extended then you are really not going to see much outside the cockpit, though you may wish to add something in the nose if you have the turret slid back for mooring access.

 

The nose guns are a bit confusing - certainly the Mk I and Mk II initially had a Fraser Nash FN11 turret with a vertical front containg a single Vickers VGO aka K mounted to starboard and from the Mk IV onwards they had a turret with a much more bowed out front containing 2 Brownings, but I have not been able to pin down exactly when that turret started to be used, and there is confusion about what it was - my book on turrets lists it as an FN5 but then the section on that turret does not mention the Sunderland. Given that the FN5 was used in the nose of the Stirling it certainly seems a likely candidate but may well have had to be modified to allow for the turret sliding backwards and forwards. Whatever the case I know it was retro-fitted to some Mk I and Mk II and it seems to have been in common use on the Mk III though it my have not been the original fit on the early ones. Even if you add the extra barell, the front of the turret will not be the right shape, but that is only a small point - if I ever decide to build another one I have a spare Stirling FN5 I might be able to use!

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited August 24, 2021 by PeterB

[Ravnos]

Thanks Pete, thats really useful, if either option is (probably) accurate then I'll make the decision when I come to it 😄

 

26 minutes ago, PeterB said:

my book on turrets

You have me intregued, which book may I ask?

[PeterB]

This one.

It is quite useful though as with all books it may have errors.

 

Pete

[LDSModeller]

On 8/23/2021 at 10:48 PM, Ravnos said:

I know there's a white ensign set for this kit. I'm not going to go crazy with scratch building an interior on the lower decks or areas that aren't visible in the completed model but the Cockpit is definitely an area that would benefit from some extra detail.

I know there is also a replacement glazing set from Squadron Canopies but I've no idea if its worth getting, if anyone's used it I'd love to know if it was significantly better than the stock clear parts, I've noticed that the turrets don't seem to have any frames on the clear parts and the nose turret only has one slot for a gun (I could have sworn the Sunderland had two in both the nose and the tail.)

 

Sorry late to the Party here

 

With the White Ensign PE sets, there are two (that I know of) one is for a Mk I/II and one for a MK III

(two different flight decks)

 

The Mk III only had the one VGO .303 gun in the forward turret (FN-11 Turret), with two uppers (where turret was fitted)

and four Browning .303's in the rear turret

The Twin front Guns you are thinking off is the Mk IIIa which had a newer turret (FN Mk Vb Turret) with the Mk VI ASW

pods under the wings.

 

I have the Squadron set for the Mk III, which I have yet to use, I have tried Squadron previous (another model) and found

the transparencies were a tad large.

 

The Airfix one can scrub up nicely and dependent how accurate you want to be, the Bomb Room doors are

5mm to far to rearward (measured from forward edge of Doors)

 

I have a few Airfix Sunderland Kits, one I have had under WIP for a wee while with a full scratch built interior

 

I have the real thing just down the road from me

 

Look forward to your build

 

Regards

 

Alan

[Ravnos]

 

Thanks Alan! @LDSModeller, that's really useful thanks.

 

I probably wont be able to make a start for a wee while, I've ordered a pile of stuff for it, some of which is coming from the US so will take a little while, the White Ensign set I've ordered is This one which includes all 3 of the separate sets on the website, as far as I can see they only have one flight deck available now so hopefully its the right one ><. The exterior detailing comes with the older ASW antenna on the rear of the fuselage so I'll stick with a MkIII rather than the IIIa.

 

In the mean time I'm debating whether or not to sand off the rivets and re-scribe the panel lines. I'm leaning towards doing it as I'm not sure I like how it looks with them and after reading a few other build threads for inspiration I noticed some people had issues masking for paint over the rivets.

 

[LDSModeller]

11 hours ago, Ravnos said:

In the mean time I'm debating whether or not to sand off the rivets and re-scribe the panel lines. I'm leaning towards doing it as I'm not sure I like how it looks with them and after reading a few other build threads for inspiration I noticed some people had issues masking for paint over the rivets.

 

I sanded off the rivets on my Airfix Sunderland - the rivets are flat headed and generally

flush with the skin as in photo below

 

Just a word of warning if I may - don't follow the likes of the Warpaint Sunderland diagram for panel lines

when scribing, it's bogus

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

[Ravnos]

11 hours ago, LDSModeller said:

I sanded off the rivets on my Airfix Sunderland - the rivets are flat headed and generally

flush with the skin as in photo below

That's great, I'll probably do the same then, I thought the real thing would have been flush but wasn't 100% sure.

 

11 hours ago, LDSModeller said:

Just a word of warning if I may - don't follow the likes of the Warpaint Sunderland diagram for panel lines

when scribing, it's bogus

 

I wasn't going to go for super accuracy with the panels and I had planned to follow the lines of the existing raised detail, although the myriad of rivets actually makes it quite hard to see the panel lines in amongst them. So the other evening i went over the lines with a soft pencil (it cleans off without any trouble) so I could wrap my head around them. I'm pretty sure they are all kinds of wrong compared to the real thing, it looks like there's a door on the starboard side of the tail which I'm almost certain wasn't there on the real thing. and the wings feel like they don't have enough towards the trailing edge.

 

 

 

 

[LDSModeller]

1 hour ago, Ravnos said:

I wasn't going to go for super accuracy with the panels and I had planned to follow the lines of the existing raised detail, although the myriad of rivets actually makes it quite hard to see the panel lines in amongst them. So the other evening i went over the lines with a soft pencil (it cleans off without any trouble) so I could wrap my head around them. I'm pretty sure they are all kinds of wrong compared to the real thing, it looks like there's a door on the starboard side of the tail which I'm almost certain wasn't there on the real thing. and the wings feel like they don't have enough towards the trailing edge.

Honestly, the Panel lines look fine 👍

Some comments If I may, the Engine stowage hatch under the Port Bomb Room

door only exists on the port side, so you will need to pencil in the normal panel

lines starboard side (upside down trapesium shaped door).

On the lower fuselage under tail, there is a camera hatch - you can see some of the panel lines too

 

One thing to add in which can be scribed. are the galley hatches (both sides)

Outside

 

 

Looking from inside

 

The Rear gunners hatch does exist, you can see it in this photo of NZ4115 (before she went

under cover) just above the top of Stair hand rail LHS

 

This diagram shows the positions of the Main Fuel tanks forward, and smaller tanks (aft of rear spar)

 

To help out with the Wing Panel lines (upper), this is a photo link from an RNZAF Forum I belong to

here in NZed

NZ4115 Wing Panels

 

Hope that helps you?

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

 

 

[Ravnos]

17 minutes ago, LDSModeller said:

Hope that helps you?

Yes it does! that's all amazing thank you. I'm hoping to make a start on sanding and scribing after the weekend, the light fitting above my bench just died so the project for the weekend is fitting the new one so I can see what I'm doing 🤣

[Ravnos]

So, I know its been a while 😅 the last few months have been pretty manic but I've managed to squeeze some modelling in here and there between other things. Suddenly realising we were approaching the final month of the GB was fairly galvanising so most of the progress so far is in the last 2-3 weeks.

 

By mid september all of the goodies had arrived, its worth saying at this point that I'm NOT trying to go for super acuracy more using it as a platform to try out some new techniques and optional extras, its the first time ive bought any third party components for a kit so it should be a good learning experiance. (Granted I may have bitten off more than I can chew but time will tell 🤣)

 

While waiting for stuff to arrive I sanded off the rivets and started scribing panel lines, I used "scribing tape" as a guide which worked alright most of the time but the glue on it wasn't terrific so there are a couple of rough spots where the scribe slipped ( I was originally going to buy Dymo tape but this stuff was cheaper). I've probably gone a bit deep as well but I'm hoping once several layers of primer and paint are on it will tone them down a bit.

 

Time to dive into the photoetch!

 

As this is my first time playing with the stuff I wanted to be fairly careful until I was sure how it went together, so after extending the flight deck support as per the instructions and adding the PE side panels, I glued together some sub assemblies and then started test fitting things in the fuselage with bluetack to see where everything went.

 

More things built, I didnt have the right size of styrene rod to cut for the boxes so they are made up of squares of styrene sheet stacked up to get something that looked about right. The edges are a bit rough but it should be close enough.

 

Prepped for paint

one coat of primer then some green zinc chromate (I've no idea if this is the right colour or not but its what I had and looked like it might be something they would have used.) followed by some detailing with a brush.

 

Flight deck floor in before paint, along with the anglepoise light on the wall. Later I added a small peice of styrene glued to the bulkhead to support the back of the floor.

 

After some painting and masking the main colours were down, more of the zinc chromate for the flight deck area and vallejo metal color aluminium for the rest. windows were glued in shortly afterwards, I had heard people complaining about the windows popping out of the holes into the fuselage once the fuselage was closed up so I added some extra glue around the frames at the back to try and prevent that and gave it 24 hours to cure before moving on. A little hand painting on the lamp to make it stand out a bit.

 

At this point I flipped everything over and attempted to repair some of the damage done by the scribing tool with some Tamiya extra thick.

I'll go back and sand these smooth later.

 

First bulkhead going in, along with the bomb bay which was painted with aluminium as well. Excuse the cat hair stuck in the paint on the seat back.

 

Second one in. I'm going to hit this with a wash and some strategic oil paints to weather it a bit so the colour shouldn't be as bright when its finished.

 

A quick check to make sure the fuselage halves were still going to go together, its pretty tight but it looks like we're going to be ok! nice view in the front as well.

 

 

After screwing around for ages with the pilots included in the kit trying to make them fit in the PE seats, I gave up and decided they wern't going in. (this had nothing to do with me snapping an exacto blade and firing one of the pilots across the room never to be seen again)

 

So I painted some cardboard to look vaguely like seat cushions and glued on and painted the PE harness belts, sadly I got a phonecall just as I had cut them off the fret and when I came back to the bench one of the shoulder yokes had vanished, so the copilot is going to have to do without.

 

 

 

Thats all for now folks, I'm hoping to ramp up production over the next couple of weekends to try and get this over the line before the end of the GB, not sure if I'll make it but I'm going to try!

 

Thanks for reading as always!

 

 

[CliffB]

Thanks for the update Ravnos.  It's good to see that your Sunderland is now well underway and that you've got much of the time consuming work finished.

The PE looks as though it was fun, but the re-scribing less so!  You've done a great job on both 

 

Cheers

[Andwil]

Wow!  For someone who has never used PE before you 1) have certainly dived right in at the deep end, and 2) are pretty darned good at it!

 

AW

[Paul J]

Re the rivets, if you haven't  obliterated  them  then the remains will look quite nice and subtle adding just a bit of realism if you get  what I mean. Look forward to progress. 

[PeterB]

If the seat belts are "steel" you might be able to find the missing one with a magnet - if not then no worries!

 

Pete

[Ravnos]

Thanks guys, you are all too kind!

 

 

On 11/5/2021 at 10:22 PM, Paul J said:

Re the rivets, if you haven't  obliterated  them

they are still just about visible at the moment, not sure if they will show through the paint when its done but they might.

 

2 hours ago, PeterB said:

If the seat belts are "steel" you might be able to find the missing one with a magnet - if not then no worries!

Sadly its brass, still no idea what happened to it, they were both sitting on my bench one moment and then one of them was gone the next.... its probably stuck to one of the cats.

 

 

Very small update after this weekend, the rest of the flight deck has been installed.

 

Along with the nose compartment detail

 

The last bit if extra stuff arrived last week so its time for some gun barrels

 

Sadly, I'm going to have to ditch the Falcon vac form canopies for the turrets, they just dont fit the kit parts. I think with some scratch building I might be able to fabricate some extra panels for the kit parts to make them fit but I think this build is complex enough given the time left, so I'm going to go with the clear parts in the kit this time round.

 

I'm fairly optimstic that the vacform cockpit canopy will still fit so I've got that to use when I get to that point.

 

quick coat of primer on all the turret parts tonight, hopefully i'll have time to get it all painted this week.

 

Thats all for now folks, hopefully I'll get to the big bits of the build soon 😅

 

[PeterB]

The interior looks very impressive. I remember reading a review a year or two back for a newer Sunderland kit - Italeri I think, which comes with a lot of interior detail but even then the reviewer was complaining that one section (the galley perhaps) was not included. Frankly I thought it rather amusing as unless he was going to build it with one side cut away most of it would not be visible - I think you have put enough in to make it interesting and more would be a little pointless, but each to their own.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited November 8, 2021 by PeterB

[Ravnos]

On 11/8/2021 at 12:27 PM, PeterB said:

The interior looks very impressive. I remember reading a review a year or two back for a newer Sunderland kit - Italeri I think, which comes with a lot of interior detail but even then the reviewer was complaining that one section (the galley perhaps) was not included. Frankly I thought it rather amusing as unless he was going to build it with one side cut away most of it would not be visible - I think you have put enough in to make it interesting and more would be a little pointless, but each to their own.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Thanks Pete, it was fun playing with the Photo etch for the first time, but I think if I was doing another sunderland I would probably leave it out given how much is hidden in the final product!

 

Sorry to say folks that this one isnt going to make it in time, Life sadly got in the way. I will however see if they will let me slip it into the KUTA GB as a late entry 😋. I'll post a final update tomorrow morning showing how far I managed to get by the deadline (spoilers: not very lol)

Edited November 28, 2021 by Ravnos
Typo

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Its ok we were happy to see what you did get done. Im certain you can get this into KUTA. 

[Ravnos]

10 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Its ok we were happy to see what you did get done. Im certain you can get this into KUTA. 

Thanks buddy, I've got a decent break over christmas so should be able to get it finished then 😅

 

So, yesterday I made as much progress as I could in between other things, I started by masking off all the portholes, I'd bought the Eduard mask for the speacial hobbie sunderland kit, thinking that....maybe it'll fit? for future reference for anyone wondering the same.... it doesn't.

 

So far the turrets have been all too small as well, but the porthole masks are also too small to cover the whole thing. I decided to still use them to cover the centre and fill in the gap with masking fluid.

 

After taking the dog for a walk to give it some drying time I started gluing the fuselage halves together, due to how tight the fit was and how.... loose, the tolerance of the mold was I had to do it in sections, starting with the roof, I glued as much as I could safely get a clamp on and left it for an hour or so.

 

once that was set I glued the next section, and so on all the way round until it was all together. once it had all had a couple of hours there were a few areas where the seams had come apart slightly, so I went round the whole lot with some sprue goo to fill in the seam with the intention of sanding it smooth later.

 

Here she is in her current state, I had glued some of the flight surfaces together back when I was waiting for parts to arrive but forgot to take pictures at the time

 

Thanks for having me guys, its been fun even if I didnt get it over the line and its taught me a lot so far. hopefully you'll be able to see her completed in the KUTA