Jump to content

The Pearls of Modelling IDF M1 Super Sherman's and M51 Sherman's, reference photos, aftermarket items and kit bashing


Mike Mcellaney

Recommended Posts

I hope the following is of help to people, new modellers and old ones if you decide to do IDF Sherman's, these are just my observations and please do not take them as gospel. Modelling IDF Sherman's is a minefield I have always found it safer to find a photo or photo's of a Sherman you wish to model and try to stick to it as best you can. If anyone has any other information please add it to the thread. The other thing I avoid is using other models as reference for a build, I will show you why further down

 

Recently I have been building a number of M51 Sherman's and for the Batch 2's and Batch 3 I decided I would fit them out with stowage, so out I went and bought a number of the Legend M51 stowage sets, then started looking at reference photos to see how, where and what they actually carried and what could be used from the Legend set. I was surprised at the amount that I could not use on the M51's as it is sold as stowage for the M51.

 

Legend M51 Stowage Set

img%5D

 

 

What I can use

img%5D

 

 

 

What I can't use

img%5D

 

 

 

I then looked at what could be used on the M1 Super Sherman, well almost the same again plus the two wooden crates

 

Looking at on line reference photos plus the ones I have in books on IDF Sherman's one thing you notice on the M51 and the M1 Super Sherman is the camouflage net is on the left hand side on 99.9% of the M51's and the M1 Super Sherman, not the right as shown and moulded to fit there by Legend (I say 99.9% as you never say never with the IDF) you may be able to make it fit but you will need to grind away a lot of the resin to reshape and then add more Magic Sculpt or something similar to get it to sit and look right, if you are good a sculpting you could make your own using the Legend part as reference and for size. Again with the placement of the other stowage on the engine deck you just don't see it to this extent on the real Tanks

 

M51 reference photos

img%5D

 

img%5D

 

img%5D

 

 

M51 Batch description and main features to identify them externally

 

Batch One or Alef 

 

 

The original M51 with the R-975 radial engine, the engine deck as per the M1 Sherman, lower hull rear as per the M1 Sherman, muzzle brake early type without the reinforcing, no secondary generator, stowage as per the Tamiya M51 less the jerry cans and spare wheels on the side, only one jerry can on the rear left and field telephone on the right as per the M51 build instructions, this can be done by kit bashing the Tamiya M51 and M1 Sherman kits, also remove the guide ribs to the drive sprockets and add the armoured cover plate to the roof of the turret where the hole was cut to allow the main gun to be depressed lower when in a hull down position

 

Batch Two or Beth

 

The first M51 with the  Cummins VT-8-460 V8 turbocharged diesel engine, this is basically the Tamiya M51 OOB, this would give your the M4A1 hull based variant or take the Tamiya M4A3E8 kit, take everything from the M51 kit and fit onto the M4A3E8 plus scratch build two additional stowage bins and move the track stowage to the turret sides, as the M4A3 hulls according to all of the available photographic evidence always had this stowage configuration, also remove the guide ribs to the drive sprockets and add the armoured cover plate to the roof of the turret where the hole was cut to allow the main gun to be depressed lower when in a hull down position

 

Batch Three or Gimel

 

The lower part of the engine deck now has the 3 louvers. However, the exhaust pipe of the two first batches is now gone, and plated over. The exhaust is now placed on the top of the engine deck, in front of the gun cradle. For this you can use the Tamiya M51 combined with the Legend M51 1973 conversion set. Stowage layout for this version can be either as per the Tamiya M51 or with additional stowage boxes and the spare track moved to the turret, also remove the guide ribs to the drive sprockets and add the armoured cover plate to the roof of the turret where the hole was cut to allow the main gun to be depressed lower when in a hull down position

 

Batch Four or Dalet

 

The lower part of the engine deck is as on Batch Three, as is the exhaust. The upper rear hull has been cut off, and repositioned with a spacer, so the angle of the rear hull is less steep when compared to the original hull. I would think this change, was probably done to help increase the airflow in the engine, to help with the cooling, I think the Dragon M51 Sherman would be the best kit to use for the one as the rear plate of the hull is a separate item and if the angle is wrong I think it would be easier to fix than trying to cut the Tamiya one off and extending the track guards. (I think the Dragon kit is a Batch Four)

 

Other minor changes of the Type Four

The .50cal removed
A .30cal on a scissors mount fitted on the commanders cupola in place of the removed .50cal
A large bin on the upper rear hull.
A 60mm mortar located between the commanders and loaders hatch.
Infrared periscopes on drivers, co-drivers and commanders hatches.
Infrared projector on hull front.

These changes are not exclusively applied to the Batch Four, some features mentioned above will also appear on vehicles of the other earlier Types.

Again find a photo reference of the Tank you want to build 

 

As I said at the beginning would advise against using another model as reference for your own build. This what I mean, I found these photos on a Google search for M51/M1 Sherman, M1 Super Sherman stowage. This is a M1 Super Sherman build and when I first looked at the photos of the model I thought this looks good, but on looking closer you start to notice things wrong and not just little things either, it looks at first to be a kit bash of three kit but when you look closer it more looks like using left over bits from three kits, some PE, a brass gun barrel and the Legend M51 stowage set to build a M1 Super Sherman I will post the photos and show you what I mean along with M1 Super Sherman photos

 

img%5D

 

1. So looking at the first photo I would say the kits used are Tamiya M51 for the hull and running gear, Tamiya M4A3 76mm turret, and a Dragon kit of a M4A1

2. Why I think this is a left over parts build, look at the rear lights from a Dragon kit fitted at an angle they should be upright but these are too big for the PE used, the PE guards are for a M4A3 hull not a M4A1 hull why would you use Dragon rear lights ones if you are using a Tamiya M51 hull? 

3. Stowage as I said before the camouflage net is on the right hand side would normally be fitted on the left, I have only found one photo showing the net in this location but then the infantry telephone is wrong

4. The stowage, going on photos of the real tanks the stowage was kept clear of the engine deck and on the turret it would be fitted to the rear .50cal stowage brackets as per the photo below not tied between them on rope or wire, again I will not say this never happened its just photos say this was not the normal way, the stowage its self is not tied down, this would never happen on armour you always tie every thing down or you loose it, a open .50cal ammo box on the rear deck open, again you would lose the contents

5. The infantry telephone this is the original pattern fitted to the tank when supplied from France which would date the tank to the late 1950's very early 1960's, I could be wrong on this one but the fold up stretcher on the engine deck, I have not seen this on any IDF tank before 1970, again look at photos of the real tanks used in the 1967 6 day war look at the infantry phones they always seem to be IDF pattern 

 

img%5D

 

img%5D

 

1. Look at the loaders hatch the rectangular item on there slightly angled up thats a hasp and staple to fit a padlock to, this what happens when you look at museum tanks, or photos of preserved tanks, this a common item added to allow the hatch to be locked from the outside to stop anyone from getting into the tank when its being transported to shows, its east to hide and with the hatch open you don't see it, the other hatches are normally padlocked and chained from the inside with the last exit point being the loaders hatch

2. The small spot light on the roof of the turret is in front of the loader periscope blocking his view

 

img%5D

 

1. Look at the drivers and bow gunners hatches, the white plastic card rectangles, this time the modeller has even gone to the trouble of making hasp and staples and fitting them onto the hatches, its details like this that indicates the modeller is looking at museum or preserved tanks and not really understanding what should and should not be on a tank in service, look and the real thing

2. Look at the extra grab handles next to the hatch grab handles, again I have seen this on a few but not many preserved tanks again used to secure the hatches to stop anyone gaining access to the tank when its being transported, you need to ask yourself would these last two items be on a operational tank that could allow your enemy to lock you in your tank 

3. Hatches again, this time the periscopes, opened up but mismatched guards and not fitted properly to the hatches looks like only the rear legs are glued at the back not the front

3. Look at the front lights Tamiya ones for the kit remember the rear ones, the light guards again look to be M4A3 ones not M4A1

4. Yes the spot light is in front of the loaders periscope

 

So I hope you see by the above example why not to use another modellers build as reference for your own build, and it also shows the importance of doing research on what you are building and have a basic understanding of what you are looking at and asking yourself should that be there. It also shows don't take it for granted the Manufactures have got it right look at the Legend Stowage set

 

Some M1 Super Sherman reference photos

 

 

img%5D

 

img%5D

 

img%5D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow

Well, your experience must be highly decorated! Really. I know the IDF in real, seen most tanks on alert and exercise. Also I know many crew & mechanics too. It is the most lausy field you got in. Ever,body had ideas, most mechanics wanted to realize this ideas. They changed swiftly by experience. How long did it take for you, to get such a knowledge? Great work!

Happy modelling 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 23/08/2021 at 17:00, dov said:

Wow

Well, your experience must be highly decorated! Really. I know the IDF in real, seen most tanks on alert and exercise. Also I know many crew & mechanics too. It is the most lausy field you got in. Ever,body had ideas, most mechanics wanted to realize this ideas. They changed swiftly by experience. How long did it take for you, to get such a knowledge? Great work!

Happy modelling 

 

Dov I was looking at this as well a lot of good information 

Edited by SBD1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi dov,

 

Glad you liked what I put together and you approve as you have first hand knowledge, I presume you have served in the IDF

 

I have always had an interest in the IDF and the IAF and I have been buying books on the subjects since the early 1980's and now I also down load photos and have folders on almost every IDF AFV, APC or SPG and the same with the IAF

 

When I start a project I always try to find a photo or photos of the particular subject I wish to build, then cross reference them to check details for as you said IDF subject change very quickly, so I am looking a fixtures and fittings, stowage, unit markings, weathering see if I can identify a "normal" layout of items within the company, so even if I only have one photo of want I want to build I can be 95% certain that things will be right

 

Taking the M1 Super Sherman I used as an example, as I said you can see the modeller has used museum and preserved tank photos to base their build on and does not really seam to have a full understanding of what should and should not be on a tank in service, This why I have found always do your own research and don't use someone else's build as a reference

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly. I was one year ago an absolute greenhorn on this subject. Just wanted to do something else as 25 years of aircraft modelling. In my case I have two fields: German WW2 by lots of oral tales and the IDF by own visual experience & friends who are/ were involved. For my greenhorn understanding I need always the interior to understand & literature. Pictures as well. The german backbone were halftracks. IDF backbone are the big huge trucks which race from border to border if required.

Happy modelling 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...