OK, I'll do Option 3 - 1/48 Tamiya F-4B VF-161"Chargers" *** FINISHED ... Belatedly ***

[modelling minion]

13 minutes ago, Ray_W said:

If in the end the result is not pleasing then all I can say is my expectation is different to others who say they have no problem with Tamiya decals.

And don't forget the "rose tinted glasses" views of some that "X model company" can do no wrong and that others can't do anything right, I would much rather see an honest appraisal and give praise where it is due and criticism where that is due, if nobody points out areas where improvement is needed then how can we expect it to happen?

[Dansk]

There’s just such quality about your work ray it all looks so good on this build. well done.

Tamiya Decals; if they could just commission those out to cartograf then we’d be happy.

[Ray_W]

16 hours ago, Dansk said:

Tamiya Decals; if they could just commission those out to cartograf then we’d be happy.

 

Thanks for the kind words Paul. I am enjoying the build as usual. Even having to do multiple days of decalling.

 

I think I can work with the decals. They're beautifully printed. The best solution I have found so far is to use Mr Mark Setter NEO under the decals. Using that now and for whatever reason they come out fractionally better. Only thing about this solution is it has a tendency to flush out the adhesive and leave some silvering so I need to use just enough and not work the decal too much. I am still using the Mark Fit Strong over the top after a few minutes. 

 

I still have not built up the confidence for the worst stencils for appearance and silvering, that being the many, many trailing edge "NO PUSH". We'll see. 

 

 

 

Ray

[Alan P]

Looks like a fine job so far in the photos, I would definitely agree with @Dansk regarding the quality of your work 👍

[modelling minion]

Your method for dealing with the decals seems to be working well Ray.

[Retired Bob]

2 hours ago, Ray_W said:

I still have not built up the confidence for the worst stencils for appearance and silvering, that being the many, many trailing edge "NO PUSH". We'll see. 

I have decided to go the easier way and I have ordered some Eduard stencil sets on Dave's @DaveJL recommendation.  After splashing out for the Quinta cockpit decals it's not time to save a bit of money now.  I'm still sorting through weapon loads, I bought some of these, they looked good:

But a word or two of warning, the box art is more CGI than real, the actual items are somewhat less detailed and the bomb fins are much too thick but the big drawback is that you get 2 of everything that's on the box art, it means that if you want to hang a full load onto those MERs you would need to buy 6 boxes and some sanding sticks.  I've gone back to Eduard Brassin weapon sets. 

[Johnson]

5 hours ago, Ray_W said:

The best solution I have found so far is to use Mr Mark Setter NEO under the decals. Using that now and for whatever reason they come out fractionally better. Only thing about this solution is it has a tendency to flush out the adhesive and leave some silvering so I need to use just enough and not work the decal too much. I am still using the Mark Fit Strong over the top after a few minutes. 

I've read elsewhere on BM that the Mr Mark products are best for Tamiya decals, that and hot water when soaking. My next project is a Fine Molds F-4 and the decals seem very similar to Tamiya - a Japanese thing? I'll be following your tips.

 

All looking very good Ray, your method must be working.

[Ray_W]

8 minutes ago, Johnson said:

I've read elsewhere on BM that the Mr Mark products are best for Tamiya decals, that and hot water when soaking

 

Yes. this is working well. I did find that the hot water made them too difficult to handle. Just a little on the hotter side of warm seems good for me. I am also ensuring a longer soak time (15-20 secs) and then have them sitting on a glass sheet before application (30 - 60 secs).  Interestingly the Mr Mark Setter NEO seems to be working on the decal adhesive and allowing a fair bit of adhesive to squeeze out. I am not going ridiculous pushing this out, simply noticing this as I work the decal in place with a soft brush. It is very noticeable. This may also be the reason why I find a problem with Mr Mark Setter, small stencils and silvering. Careful placement and minimal movement overcomes this problem. Move the stencilling decal a couple of times and you're doing some corrective work to overcome some silvering. 

 

2 hours ago, Retired Bob said:

I have decided to go the easier way and I have ordered some Eduard stencil sets on Dave's @DaveJL recommendation.

 

A good option Bob. Although, I think I have got them sorted, for today at least. Still plenty more practice at hand before I rush out and buy the Tamiya F-14 or P-38 and use the kit decals. It is promising.

 

The results are speaking for themselves.

 

 

The "NAVY" and "VF-161" are two decals. I did not separate the letters. No complaints.  

 

 

 

I did a couple of things different on the fin's starbord side. I actually separated the "N" and "F" and trimmed them neatly. With wet decals flip flopping around and really worried they would break, they went on like they were painted. We all cheered. Tamiya tough.

 

Next, having been very proud of using the small Tamiya red decal for the bullet fairing and having got it to settle down so nicely on the port side I thought "easy, do it again". Of course, I showed some impatience, decide to touch it, ruined it and had to paint the fairing. Missed the right colour by that much. It'll do.

 

All is ready now to put the fin in place. Satin coat on all this will come at the end of the build.

 

 

 

Ray

 

 

 

 

 

[Retired Bob]

28 minutes ago, Ray_W said:

With wet decals flip flopping around and really worried they would break, they went on like they were painted. We all cheered. Tamiya tough.

They are looking great Ray, perhaps I should have given them a chance, not to worry, plenty more still in the stash.  

[DaveJL]

Those kit decals look like they went on a treat Ray. I do find Tamiya kit decals a little thick.

[Ray_W]

4 minutes ago, Retired Bob said:

perhaps I should have given them a chance

 

Let's see what they look like when finished.

[modelling minion]

The kit decals certainly have good colour density Ray and your method does seem to be working very well.

[Ray_W]

I have bits and pieces everywhere. This race is going down to the wire. At least I have largely completed the decals and happy with the result. Hopefully, get some close ups tomorrow. At the moment everything is focussed on getting it done. 

 

 

Still a huge amount of detail work to do. 

 

Ray

[modelling minion]

She's looking very smart Ray, very smart indeed.

I always find that getting the "last bits" done takes me nearly as long as the main build of the model and is usually where my enthusiasm begins to wane.

[Gidge]

Looking sharp

[Ray_W]

11 minutes ago, modelling minion said:

 

I always find that getting the "last bits" done takes me nearly as long as the main build of the model and is usually where my enthusiasm begins to wane.

 

I know what you mean. At least no aerial wires to play with. 

 

I have enjoyed this build so much that I have found nothing that tedious. Even 4 days of decals was OK. Maybe it was the choice of audible book playing - H. P. Lovecraft. Anything then seems better. 

 

 

[Johnson]

Looks good Ray. I'm at a similar stage as you, going to be a busy weekend! Best of luck.

[Thom216]

Nice and clean, colorful bird! Like it.

[Ray_W]

23 hours ago, Johnson said:

I'm at a similar stage as you, going to be a busy weekend! Best of luck.

 

Hi Charlie,

 

Sadly, I'll miss the gallery. It will need a few more days. Just too much to do and rushing a little today taking some of the fun away. I'll keep posting here and will have it wrapped up by the middle of the week.

 

Ray

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ray_W]

Much happier now having decided to slow the project down a little.

 

Today's job - ordnance and enjoyed it immensely. Here they are still waiting on a little detail painting, some grey panel line accent and final clear coat. Tank to be weathered. 

 

 

I did the panel lines with a dark grey pin wash (Tamiya Panel Line Accent Color). Gave me that noticable but understated look that I like. 

 

 

Underside the same. Vents and louvres I used black. 

 

 

Starting to layer in some feature in the underside using oils.  The light patch on the starboard speed brake is a small scratch I am repairing. This is why the final part of a project takes me a lot of time. Always fixing some annoyance.

 

 

For example.

 

The problem with Mr Mark Setter NEO is the possibility of getting a little blob of dried PVA under the decal. I have learnt from experience to keep the top of the bottle clean and watch carefully any application. Really not an issue. Although, as luck will have it, when you do have this problem it will be in a high profile location such as under the decal in front of the windscreen.  

 

 

Tamiya do not supply a decal for the nose cone portion, which you can see above I painted. Thinking I would be smart I thought maybe a small slit in the decal portion and remove it, sand and then when I overlap the paint it wil be good. Success, well sort of. Went from a peak to a hole. With a flat coat it will be less noticable and yet, knowing me, I'll probably have a go at filling it if I can. Maybe one I have to live with.

 

Still plenty to do.

 

Ray

 

[modelling minion]

Nice work Ray, the grey panel line wash has done the job well, accentuated them without being too stark.

The ordnance looks really good, something I struggle with the enthusiasm to do at times.

[Ray_W]

8 hours ago, modelling minion said:

The ordnance looks really good, something I struggle with the enthusiasm to do at times.

 

Was also one of my least enjoyable parts of any build although, I must admit of late, I have come to enjoy it. I think with recent kits and after market, clean up is minimal and the results with all the stencilling can be excellent. Great little projects in their own right.

 

I am getting very close to finish. Next images should be all done. Probably post some belated images Thursday morning.  

 

Ray

[trickyrich]

She's looking amazing Ray, I love the finish you've gotten on her.

 

Those decals look to behaving themselves, if you do get some "silvering" on the smaller ones try using a needle to poke tiny holes in them, then drop some decal softener on them. I have found in the past this works well and removes the "silvering"......... as long as the decals are good ones.....nothing would save the ones on my RAAF Phantom.

 

I haven't gotten to do the decals of the stores yet (actually still waiting for main decals) but had similar ones on my Tomcat.....gosh those Sparrow have more decals on each than a lot of 1/72nd scale models!!.

[Ray_W]

8 hours ago, trickyrich said:

Those decals look to behaving themselves, if you do get some "silvering" on the smaller ones try using a needle to poke tiny holes in them, then drop some decal softener on them.

 

Thanks for tips Rich. Only had a couple out of the "oh-so-many" stencils that silvered just a little bit on the corner. Did a similar trick with multiple tiny pin pricks and Tamiya Decal Adhesive. Worked well. Quality decals, sadly still a little thick for stencils. The main decals were excellent. Because of the quality of the decals, I was able to steam through them with the ordnance. Not tedious at all. 

 

I am now at that stage of the project where you introduce more problems than you solve. My sleeve decided to catch a fin probe. Luckily I caught the model just before it went over the side, but crashed the port-side undercarriage. Nice ground loop. Could of been worse. One Sidewinder went skidding across the deck. Thankfully no explosion. Now a pinning job coming up for the undercarriage. Simple fix. I am looking forward to leaving it alone now.

 

 

 

Removed the windscreen mask and discovered the only real irritation I will have to carry with the model. The blue tint is too dark. It is actually transparent, looking much worse in the photo than reality.  Oh well, you live and learn. Never get one perfect ... yet. I'll get it right on the next one. At least I filled that divet on the nose in front of the windscreen. Just kept applying a little gloss lacquer with a light sand between coats I was happy. 

 

 

I am happy with the tail end.

 

 

Next post should be the finish.

 

Ray

 

[Johnson]

19 minutes ago, Ray_W said:

My sleeve decided to catch a fin probe. Luckily I caught the model just before it went over the side, but crashed the port-side undercarriage. Nice ground loop. Could of been worse. One Sidewinder went skidding across the deck. Thankfully no explosion

Dangerous places flight decks!

 

20 minutes ago, Ray_W said:

Removed the windscreen mask and discovered the only real irritation I will have to carry with the model. The blue tint is too dark.

Just how blue/dark the windscreen appears seems to depend on the angle of the sun, position of the observer etc. No chance of getting the screen off for a re-try then?

 

I got the impression from the various STGB builds that Phantoms aren't the easiest planes to model. I can certainly attest to that. A number of things contribute; the McDonnell Douglas design of the fuselage and intakes causes model makers (and builders) headaches, the fin probe - how mine survived was a miracle, it certainly got bent enough times, all those stencils and underwing ordnance etc. A superb good looking plane but a challenging build.