Was a ‘Sundowner’… now a ‘Silver King’ - ##finished##

[Dansk]

On 8/20/2021 at 3:25 PM, Bertie Psmith said:

Yep that's it. Bigger than I thought. Clearly centerline station only. 

 

There was a wing tank with a door in the side too. For luggage, believe it or not.

 

 

The hose in front of the dog is the LP Air Start hose.

Cool I’m definately gonna do this Bertie its a super cool detail.

Theres resin variants in 1/48 out there too. 👍

9 hours ago, modelling minion said:

That would be the cost, the other Phantom kits already in the stash and the fact that the B is one of the least interesting versions of the Phantom. 

Let’s hope a new tamiya variant is on it’s way soon so we can reduce the amount of feeble excuses you have left Craig 

[Dansk]

My oob plan is going a bit off course.

Think I’d like to do a couple of cbu’s on a TER on one side and the palouste on the other side both on inner pylons

would this be ok to do reality wise @Bertie Psmith

Also does anybody know what CBU set I should get? theres a few options out there.
Bigger is more interesting visually.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Dansk

[Bertie McBoatface]

1 hour ago, Dansk said:

would this be ok to do reality wise

 

I know nothing about reality. I lost touch with that a long time ago. 

 

Seriously, I've no idea what loadouts would be feasible, sorry.

[Pappy]

They CBUs look like MK-20 Rockeyes in the pic above.

 

Also, in regards to the aftermarket MERs, I seem to recall other builds where these were used only for the builder to discover that they were  a little undersized, is this the case?

It seems the problem arose when the kit MK.82s were offered up to the rack, perhaps you need to use the same brand of Mk.82s for everything to play nicely?

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

[modelling minion]

Yes they are Mk.20 Rockeyes.

 

Bear in mind the squadron you are modelling Paul, whilst VF-111 Phantoms certainly did carry air/ground whizz bangery most of the pictures I have seen of them in action in South East Asia show them tooled up primarily for air to air missions as escorts, though as I said there are pictures of them carrying and dropping the likes of Mk.82's.

[Greg B]

For inspiration. Probably one of the most iconic F-4 images from VietNam - Note the boarding ladder is also still deployed

 

[Dansk]

54 minutes ago, modelling minion said:

Yes they are Mk.20 Rockeyes.

 

Bear in mind the squadron you are modelling Paul, whilst VF-111 Phantoms certainly did carry air/ground whizz bangery most of the pictures I have seen of them in action in South East Asia show them tooled up primarily for air to air missions as escorts, though as I said there are pictures of them carrying and dropping the likes of Mk.82's.

Thanks for the good advice and inpiration chaps 👍

Craig would Air to Air missions permit 'zuni' rockets? like this below.

or are they primarily for Air to Ground missions only

 

 

[modelling minion]

Zuni's were definitely carried by some Navy F-4's, as your picture proves, but I cannot find any pics of Sundowners F-4's carrying them, although this does not mean that they never did. There are quite a few pics of them carrying MK.82's on inboard TER's along with AIM-9D's on twin launchers, sometimes without the outboard pylons and their usual fuel tanks.

[Bertie McBoatface]

23 hours ago, Dansk said:

would this be ok to do reality wise

 

This was from the Hasegawa F-4B/N instructions. I don't know if it's reliable or helpful.

 

[FortyEighter]

Another Tamiya F-4B, makes me feel a bit depressed to only have a Revell Fugger2 in the stash (which will feature soon)

[Dansk]

2 hours ago, FortyEighter said:

Another Tamiya F-4B, makes me feel a bit depressed to only have a Revell Fugger2 in the stash (which will feature soon)

you need to work on some man maths that demand buying the tamiya if the revell doesnt excite you 
 

 

Thanks Craig / Bertie

With the hasegawa weapons options being b/n it rather complicates things as it could be carried by a later n variant then it requires aerodynamic visual differences from a B to be a N.

Perhaps i should find a good sundowner ref and replicate that set-up (perferably one with a palouste)

Edited August 22, 2021 by Dansk

[DaveJL]

The MK20s do look good and as above, I haven't seen many pictures of VF-111 jets with them fitted. That of course does not mean that they weren't carried. Think I have 4 in the spares from a Hobbyboss A-6 kit if they're of any use.

[Dansk]

9 minutes ago, DaveJL said:

The MK20s do look good and as above, I haven't seen many pictures of VF-111 jets with them fitted. That of course does not mean that they weren't carried. Think I have 4 in the spares from a Hobbyboss A-6 kit if they're of any use.

Thanks Dave don’t do it your far too kind!

[modelling minion]

The Hasegawa weapons sheets just show what could be carried, not what was carried. 

For instance you will never find pictures of B's carrying AGM-45 Shrikes but they are on the sheet.

Best to go with photographic evidence.

[trickyrich]

Hi Paul

 

I've been doing some looking around for pics of your bird with stores fitted, not many around.  The Academy model's box art is pretty much based on those few photos, just Mk.82's (4 or 6) on TER's, centre tank and no wing tanks.

 

The stores loadout would be very dependant on mission, "Loaded for bear" would have a big cost on range. I'm not sure about those early mission in Vietnam.

 

There are some interesting photos here. I use the Russian search engine Yandex.ru to find most of my stuff, there search results are always much better the Google's and no adds!

 

https://yandex.ru/images/search?text=VF-111 F-4B vietnam&from=tabbar

 

this one works too, just it's Yandex.com and not .ru

 

https://yandex.com/images/search?from=tabbar&text=Vf-111 F-4B in Vietnam

 

The interesting phot is of the bird abut to launch. Just 4 Mk.82'2 and a pair of Sidewinders and nothing else, no Sparrows even! It's a great action colour photo. 

 

[Pappy]

7 hours ago, modelling minion said:

Zuni's were definitely carried by some Navy F-4's, as your picture proves, but I cannot find any pics of Sundowners F-4's carrying them, although this does not mean that they never did. There are quite a few pics of them carrying MK.82's on inboard TER's along with AIM-9D's on twin launchers, sometimes without the outboard pylons and their usual fuel tanks.

 

Zuni's were indeed part of the USN arsenal. Tragically, it was stray voltage that fired a Zuni rocket from a parked F-4B on that carrier that caused the USS Forrestall fire. I would not have thought of Zuni's as A/A ordnance unless you were trying to shoot down a swarm of massed bombers. It was deffo A/G ordnance but very effective against stationary ground targets and 'softskins', I have not looked for pics of VF-111 carrying them but plenty of Marine F-4s would have used them

 

Pappy

 

 

[Christer A]

Nice choice Paul!

Can't wait to see what you'll do with this magnificent kit!

[Bertie McBoatface]

13 hours ago, Dansk said:

Perhaps i should find a good sundowner ref and replicate that set-up (preferably one with a palouste)

 

I'm struggling to imagine a situation where a Phantom would be carrying a heavy warload AND a palouste. You'd only need the starter trolley if you were visiting somewhere with no starters of their own. You'd only want the bombs if you didn't plan on landing away. Some WWII raids come to mind where bombers overflew Europe, dropping bombs on the way and then continued to Russia or North Africa because they couldn't get home. Even then, they usually had pre-positioned ground crew and equipment.

[Dansk]

Thanks for the input fellas. Amazing search engine rich 👍

Ok then it seems most apt to perhaps follow what seems to be the most common sundowners set up from what I can see -

A to A with a centre tank, amraams semi recessed in the body, and some sidewinders on the inner pylons but nothing else

Edited August 23, 2021 by Dansk

[helios16v]

19 minutes ago, Dansk said:

A to A with a centre tank, amraams semi recessed in the body, and some sidewinders on the inner pylons but nothing else

 

I assume you meant Sparrows (AIM-7).  The only F-4 that I am aware of that was equipped to carry/launch the AIM-120 AMRAAM was the HAF F-4E AUP.

[Retired Bob]

On 22/08/2021 at 03:14, Pappy said:

Also, in regards to the aftermarket MERs, I seem to recall other builds where these were used only for the builder to discover that they were  a little undersized, is this the case?

It seems the problem arose when the kit MK.82s were offered up to the rack, perhaps you need to use the same brand of Mk.82s for everything to play nicely?

I compared my Eduard MER to a Hasegawa one from their weapons sets, damn they are too short between the the front and rear ERU's, by 4 to 5mm.

ICM are bringing out a set of weapons for the F-4 and they include a pair of MER's, I've pre-ordered some.

When first sent to Vietnam Phantoms were not considered fighter aircraft, that was the domain of the single engine, single seater gun toting F-8 Crusaders, the Phantom was an all missile armed interceptor.  Since the Vietnamese Air Force hardly came up to play the Phantoms keeping top cover was a waste of a resource so that's why they hung air to ground ordinance on them, I'm planning on doing one used on "iron hand" op's the suppression of AAA sites using napalm weapons. (don't say frying tonight).

[DaveJL]

3 hours ago, helios16v said:

 

I assume you meant Sparrows (AIM-7).  The only F-4 that I am aware of that was equipped to carry/launch the AIM-120 AMRAAM was the HAF F-4E AUP.

Along with the German F-4F!

 

@Dansk the MK20s are there if you require them!

[Pappy]

29 minutes ago, Retired Bob said:

I compared my Eduard MER to a Hasegawa one from their weapons sets, damn they are too short between the the front and rear ERU's, by 4 to 5mm.

ICM are bringing out a set of weapons for the F-4 and they include a pair of MER's, I've pre-ordered some.

When first sent to Vietnam Phantoms were not considered fighter aircraft, that was the domain of the single engine, single seater gun toting F-8 Crusaders, the Phantom was an all missile armed interceptor.  Since the Vietnamese Air Force hardly came up to play the Phantoms keeping top cover was a waste of a resource so that's why they hung air to ground ordinance on them, I'm planning on doing one used on "iron hand" op's the suppression of AAA sites using napalm weapons. (don't say frying tonight).

 YGBSM

 

[Bertie McBoatface]

50 minutes ago, Pappy said:

YGBSM

 

?

[modelling minion]

7 minutes ago, Bertie Psmith said:

 

?

YGBSM refers to what aircrew supposedly said when first told of the iron hand/ wild weasel missions and what they involved. 

Stands for You Gotta Be Sh---ing Me!