Red oxide questions

[Doggy]

As far as I know as Germany started running out of paint some tanks were left in the red oxide primer.

 

Did the primer have a ral number?

 

And does anyone know of a model kit that asks you to use the primer as part of the camo?

 

Thanks.

[Kingsman]

This is a hotly-debated topic and possibly entirely untrue.  Let me summarise the situation as I understand it.

 

Thomas Jentz - in whom we trust - came up with this idea from translation and/or interpretation of original source documents something over 15 years ago.  Bovington's Panther was repainted according to that theory in 2009, about 12 years ago.  It is tied up with the introduction of factory-applied camouflage.

 

He has since revised that interpretation, perhaps 5 years or so ago.  That revised interpretation showed that the requirement for factories to paint the entire tank in dunkelgelb was removed.  Areas that were to be painted in rotbraun or olivegurn were to be left in red primer BUT were to be overpainted in those colours and not left unpainted.

 

However, the very heated discussion on another forum about the temporary repaint in 2020 of Bovington's Jagdpanther in a now-discredited scheme flushed out photos of the MNH factory at war's end with both Panthers and Jadgpanthers clearly visible on the production line still in overall dunkelgelb.  But there are in-service pictures of Panthers in hard-edged striped camouflage which is said to be a key identifier of MNH-built tanks.  Which implies that the factory painting situation was flexible acording to the paint supply situation.  A dunkelgelb tank out of the factory door was much better than one sat in the factory waiting for camouflage paint that might never come.

 

Let's not go down the rabbit hole of whether late war tanks were actually finished in a different shade of dunkelgelb with resedagrun and schokobraun camouflage.........

 

No, red lead primer did not have an RAL number as such.  There is a colour RAL3009 Oxide Red but this is not the primer paint: it is a top colour that looks like the primer.  But it might be as good a match as any.

[Bozothenutter]

5 hours ago, Das Abteilung said:

This is a hotly-debated topic and possibly entirely untrue.  Let me summarise the situation as I understand it.

 

Thomas Jentz - in whom we trust - came up with this idea from translation and/or interpretation of original source documents something over 15 years ago.  Bovington's Panther was repainted according to that theory in 2009, about 12 years ago.  It is tied up with the introduction of factory-applied camouflage.

 

He has since revised that interpretation, perhaps 5 years or so ago.  That revised interpretation showed that the requirement for factories to paint the entire tank in dunkelgelb was removed.  Areas that were to be painted in rotbraun or olivegurn were to be left in red primer BUT were to be overpainted in those colours and not left unpainted.

 

However, the very heated discussion on another forum about the temporary repaint in 2020 of Bovington's Jagdpanther in a now-discredited scheme flushed out photos of the MNH factory at war's end with both Panthers and Jadgpanthers clearly visible on the production line still in overall dunkelgelb.  But there are in-service pictures of Panthers in hard-edged striped camouflage which is said to be a key identifier of MNH-built tanks.  Which implies that the factory painting situation was flexible acording to the paint supply situation.  A dunkelgelb tank out of the factory door was much better than one sat in the factory waiting for camouflage paint that might never come.

 

Let's not go down the rabbit hole of whether late war tanks were actually finished in a different shade of dunkelgelb with resedagrun and schokobraun camouflage.........

 

No, red lead primer did not have an RAL number as such.  There is a colour RAL3009 Oxide Red but this is not the primer paint: it is a top colour that looks like the primer.  But it might be as good a match as any.

Amen brother!

 

To add to this, parts would arrive from suppliers in oxide, and might well have been is different shades.

Just google red oxide primer images, and be amazed at the variety of reds!

[JackG]

Searching the missinglynx forums for a more precise date of when Jentz corrected his mistake, I find only mention of a lecture he hosted, but no date.   It was pointed out that with the 2004 publication of Panzer Tracts Panther Ausf.G,  the idea of primer as a camou colour appears to have been discarded.

 

regards,

Jack

[dov]

The color you talk about: Minium is a primer with Pb as basis. The hull red from Mr.Hobby meets it best. Identical with the interior of engone compartment. Maybe they came also this way out of factory, since all got this primer.

Not more not less.

No date, no factory, just the color.

Happy modelling