Painting Tamiya Early Vinyl Tank Tracks - confused

[Knight_Flyer]

So I have a Tamiya tank first tooled in 1975 and the tank tracks being made of a strange feeling material... went on a bit of a search for more information about how to paint... and immediately got scared when the first expert said be careful what you do, use the wrong paint and you will melt the tracks. Really, is it that dangerous to even attempt any painting? 

 

After wading through what seems like an entire encyclopaedia of various comments and advice... I'm still confused 😕 So, making an attempt to make a simple answer of the information overload... can anyone say have I got the following right? I can use Tamiya acrylic paint for the tracks and best start with a dark metallic colour. Equally suitable is Vallejo acrylic paint. Neither of those paints should affect the vinyl. There was also mention of being able to use a Vallejo wash on top of the paint.

 

Puzzling thing is, apparently the vinyl tracks on later Tamiya toolings can be painted with any kind of paint. Wonder why Tamiya didn't use the same material on re-issues of old toolings. Would have saved me a bit of confusion and concern 

[dogsbody]

Back in the early 80's, I did a couple Tamiya 1/35 tanks, a Panther and a KV-1. As near as I can remember, I used either Testors PLA paints and/or Humbrol enamels.

Both kits made into the late 90's and the tracks were still good. The only issue I ever had with Tamiya flexible, rubbery bits was with the tires on the LRDG truck. After about ten years, the tires went all weird, splitting apart and melting the edges of the rims.

 

 

 

Chris

[Knight_Flyer]

4 hours ago, dogsbody said:

After about ten years, the tires went all weird, splitting apart and melting the edges of the rims.

 

 

It's seeing comments like that what makes me nervous 🐧 Maybe I should leave the tracks alone or assemble the wheels as working... could have a few hours of fun rolling tank around on living room carpet 

[spruecutter96]

Prime the tracks with Halfords Car Primer (or similar). Thereafter, you should be able to paint the tracks with most paints. Leave a minimum of five days between primer and paint. 

 

Hope this helps. 

 

Chris.  

Edited August 15, 2021 by spruecutter96
Correcting a typo.

[Troy Smith]

8 hours ago, Knight_Flyer said:

start with a dark metallic colour.

Have a read of this.

@Das Abteilung maybe able to add some info on the tracks in the kit, you may want to say what the subject actually is,  there may even be replacement tracks available.

8 hours ago, Knight_Flyer said:

use the wrong paint and you will melt the tracks.

I'd guess this was if using some kind of lacquer with 'hot' thinners.

Vallejo is very mild  paint, one reason it so fragile.   Standard tamiya is a bit more robust.

8 hours ago, Knight_Flyer said:

Puzzling thing is, apparently the vinyl tracks on later Tamiya toolings can be painted with any kind of paint. Wonder why Tamiya didn't use the same material on re-issues of old toolings.

They may do. You say the kit was tooled in 1975, is this an old original kit, or a more recent issue?   If not, maybe the old moulds just won't work with a different material? 

One thing that really helps on here in cases like this, is to  be specific and give as much detail.     I don't recall seeing any issues with painting vinyl tracks except getting the paint to stick.

I have some Tamiya kits from the late 70's, and the last time I looked the tracks were still OK.  

There are cases of models with 'rubber' tyres melting the plastic, but making sure there is a paint barrier, or maybe tinfoil  between plastic and tyre should solve that problem.

 

   HTH 

 

[dogsbody]

Yes, I forgot to mention that the old Tamiya rubber/vinyl tires were on unpainted rims. As long as the rims have been painted before mounting the tires, this will forstall any melting.

 

 

 

 

Chris

[Kingsman]

My 2 penneth is always to bin the nasty vinyl tracks and replace them with some sort of individual links.  These will be hard plastic or white metal, although the latter will cost you as much as many kits do!  You never know what you're going to get with vinyl, especially with newer and older releases and possible changes of material.  Increasingly, kits are coming with indy link or link and length hard plastic tracks as standard or as an option.

 

Vinyl tracks are a throwback to motorisation of kits back in The Dark Ages.  They serve no other purpose.  They were originally never intended to be painted at all. 

 

They are, however, much simpler for beginners.  Use them on your first tank and never use them again........

 

Gaps between links are often moulded solid.

 

You can never eradicate the mould lines along the edges.  It is impossible.

 

They will not sit correctly with sag.

 

They are often too short to fit properly and may over time bend or break off completely the idlers or sprockets under tension.

 

You cannot reliably invisibly join them.  Glueable vinyl that reacts to plastic glue will also react to any other solvent such as enamel thinners.  Some like Asuka even come in 2 pieces with 2 joins!

 

Dragon's DS vinyl - the first glueable vinyl - has an increasingly poor reputation for short life before disintegrating, so much so that they no longer use it.  It remains to be seen if other manufacturers' glueable vinyl will go the same way.

 

Some older vinyl materials will react over time in contact with hard plastic such as the wheels, idlers etc.  The hard plastic parts will go soft and deform.  Paint is not a guaranteed answer, but acrylic is better than enamel because of the non-hydrocarbon slovent base.  Foil strips around the wheel rims is the only reliable prevention.  Again, the jury is still out on newer tyre and track vinyl materials as they haven't been around long enough to know and you can bet that the manufacturers have not been testing them for years before release.  We are their guinea pigs.

 

Paint adhesion long-term is unreliable as it cannot bind with the material to form an effective bond.  The material is too "slippery".  A primer paint can help, but most kit track vinyl materials are essentially bond-proof to any paint.  You rely on the primer forming a hard "second skin" around the vinyl.  But once that cracks or loosens then flaking is inevitable.

[Bullbasket]

9 hours ago, spruecutter96 said:

Prime the tracks with Halfords Car Primer (or similar). Thereafter, you should be able to paint the tracks with most paints. Leave a minimum of five days bewtween primer and paint. 

 

Hope this helps. 

 

Chris.  

You just beat me to it. I've a few of the older Tamiya tanks and I too have always sprayed them with Halfords Auto Primer (grey). I've then used Tamiya paint to top coat, and so far there has been no reaction whatsoever.

 

John.

[Knight_Flyer]

Thanks guys, that makes it more clearer on what the others were saying. Think I will err on the safe side with the acrylics... so if paint does flake off... I just start all over again with a different technique

[Bullbasket]

Halfords primer is an acrylic, but it binds very well to the tracks and forms a barrier between them and whatever paint you apply afterwards.

 

John.

[spruecutter96]

I seem to remember a special type of paint in the Tamiya acrylic range called "Flat Base" ("X-21" is the part number). IIRC, this is designed to go on to surfaces that would not ordinarily take acrylic paints and it provides a good base for the paints to adhere to.

 

Hope this helps. 

 

Chris.  

Edited August 15, 2021 by spruecutter96
Correcting a typo.

[Troy Smith]

23 minutes ago, spruecutter96 said:

I seem to remember a special type of paint in the Tamiya acrylic range called "Flat Base" ("X-21" is the part number). IIRC, this is designed to go on to surfaces that would not ordinarily take acrylic paints and it provides a good base for the paints to adhere to.

 

Hope this helps. 

 

Chris.  

AFAIK Chris, Flat Base, is a matting agent for their gloss paint and varnish.  

A quick google confirms this.

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/49260-tamiya-x21-flat-base/

 

Though, @Knight_Flyer if going down the halfords route, IIRC they do paints for plastic bumpers, which may have more bite on vinyl

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/paints-and-body-repair/specialist-and-decorative-paints/halfords-plastic-bumper-paint-dark-grey-300ml-325191.html

 

which got me thinking, and a google  'paint for flexible vinyl' gets various results

again Halfords

Black, dark and light grey and red

the balck and dark grey are maybe the best for track base coat

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/paints-and-body-repair/specialist-and-decorative-paints/halfords-flexible-vinyl-paint-dark-grey-363416.html

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/paints-and-body-repair/specialist-and-decorative-paints/halfords-flexible-vinyl-paint-black-363408.html

 

But, no idea if it would affect Tamiya track, but it it didn't, maybe a useful product.

 

HTH

[spruecutter96]

Thanks for the information, Troy.

 

Chris. 

[Bullbasket]

17 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

AFAIK Chris, Flat Base, is a matting agent for their gloss paint and varnish.  

A quick google confirms this.

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/49260-tamiya-x21-flat-base/

Yes, I've got a bottle of it, and is is just that, a matting agent.

 

John.

[Johnny Tip]

On 14/08/2021 at 18:25, dogsbody said:

The only issue I ever had with Tamiya flexible, rubbery bits was with the tires on the LRDG truck. After about ten years, the tires went all weird, splitting apart and melting the edges of the rims.

 

Oh, thank you for that information Chris, I didn't know about the melting rims. Guess I will replace the tires on my first truck rather sooner than later (good thing I don't glue anything that stays on by itself)

[spruecutter96]

Yep, rubber tyres on a kit are very bad news. Something in the rubber reacts with the plastic rims and, eventually, you end up with a real mess. Much better to replace the kit's tyres with resin ones (if available).

 

I have heard of folks painting the tyres with three coats of Johnson's Klear, in an effort to stop the rubber going bad. Unfortunately, I never heard anything more about this measure (ie: if it actually worked over time). 

 

Cheers.

 

Chris.