Post War RAF Training schemes - do 'official' dates exist for each change?

[Rabbit Leader]

With the recent release of Airfix's new 1/48 Chipmunk, I started thinking about the extensive and diverse range of RAF Trainer Post War colour schemes and perhaps if there are any 'official' dates when the order to change came about? The kit's Royal Navy scheme (and in similar vein to one of the latest 1/48 Gnat options) suggests a combination of Light Aircraft Grey (Hu166) with large wingtip and rear fuselage sections painted Signal Red (Hu174). The use of Signal Red surprises me a little, as I would have thought that this colour call out should be either Florescent Orange (Hu 209) or Florescent Red? Can anyone confirm or deny my suspicions? 

 

So if we just concentrate of the immediate Post War to mid 1980's period, to my knowledge the stages of colour scheme progress appear to be similar to this (dates are rough approximations) 

 

1945 - 50 - Overall Trainer Yellow 

1948 - 59 - Overall Aluminium with Yellow wing and rear fuselage bands 

1960 - 63 - Overall Aluminium with Dayglo Orange wing tips and rear fuselage

1963 - 68 - Overall Aluminium with Dayglo Orange / Red tape strips

1968 - 72 - Overall Light Aircraft Grey with Dayglo Orange / Red tape strips or wing tips and rear fuselage panels (subject to airframe?)

1972 - mid 80's - Overall Signal Red with LAG wings and White bands / stripes etc (subject to airframe?). 

 

Do 'official' dates exists for these colour transitions and is there an Overall LAG / Signal Red scheme which I'm not familiar with? 

Cheers and regards.. Dave. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hook]

Didn't the Gloss Black trainer scheme appear in the 90s?

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[Rabbit Leader]

37 minutes ago, Hook said:

Didn't the Gloss Black trainer scheme appear in the 90s?

 

Yes Andre, however I am mainly concerned with the schemes relative to the Chipmunk's in-service history..... although am aware of the BBMF operating a couple of Black Chipmunks too! 

Cheers.. Dave 

[Hook]

27 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said:

although am aware of the BBMF operating a couple of Black Chipmunks too! 

 

That's what triggered me. 😎 As well as the broader allover postwar schemes context.

 

It does look wrong on a Chipmunk, though...

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[Rabbit Leader]

4 minutes ago, Hook said:

It does look wrong on a Chipmunk, though...

 

I completely agree, there are so many cool schemes to choose from, even the Army camo version is a better option that Gloss Black!  

[Ossington 2]

I think the red-white-LAG and no dayglo came out in 1969.

[T-21]

"RAF Little Rissington " by Bagshaw, Deacon,Pollock and Thomas  on page 100  a chapter on new  aircraft paint scheme for training aircraft . On 24th January 1958 CFS received instruction's from HQ Flying Training Command  to carry out trial's on a new conspicuous colour scheme. large area's were painted  with Docker Bros "Fluolac" fluorescent paint. By the end of 1959  nearly all aircraft had been repainted in the Fluolac scheme. The scheme did not last, the paint faded and stripped back from nose and wing leading edge's. CFS was called upon by HQFTC to resolve the issue.

Throughout 1961  CFS trialled a new scheme of narrow strip's of Scotchal Flutape "Dayglo"  applied to the nose,tail and wing surface's over a silver base. 

Edited August 13, 2021 by T-21

[T-21]

Airfix Annual 1978  Michael Bowyer wrote an article on this very subject titled "Marking trainer's". No specific date's given just approximate years.  Regarding the T bands  they were 2ft wide  for single engine aircraft, 3ft for twin engined and 4ft for multi engined aircraft.

Edited August 13, 2021 by T-21

[Rabbit Leader]

Appreciate the reply T-21. I’ve never heard of the term ‘Flurolac’ so that’s a new one for me. I’d love to get a copy of that Bowyer article, his Bombing and Flighting Colours books I think I’ve read a zillion times over! 
Cheers.. Dave 

[Rod Blievers]

A couple of thoughts here, specifically relating to the Chipmunk:

 

1948-1959 scheme: Note that not all Chipmunks left the factories with yellow bands; the batch intended for RAFC Cranwell certainly did not (they received the pale blue/trimmed dark blue fuselage band on arrival at Cranwell).

 

1960-1963 scheme: there are huge variations in the areas that were painted DayGlo. I wish I could post photos! Take two Leeds UAS Chipmunks seen in 1960 as examples: WG478 seen with DayGlo wingtips, cowlings, the entire rear fuselage and small outboard sections of the tailplane but parked adjacent is WP915 in similar markings plus the wing outer panels, flaps plus a section parallel possibly 12 inches wide ahead of the flaps, and the elevator trim tab also painted!

 

1963-1968 scheme: While the horizontal surfaces application of the 3M strips remained standard, there are considerable variations of the fuselage strips. The rear fuselage treatment could have two or three strips parallel to the centreline while sometimes there were two strips that tapered together aft, while the cowl sides strips were either rectangular but could have rounded leading edges.

 

1968-1972 scheme: Now we're heading into a minefield! MoD introduced polyurethane paints around 1965, Light Aircraft Grey was chosen to be tonally close to, and replace, cellulose Silver. The earliest dated photo I can find of a Chipmunk in overall Grey is 1968. A handful of Chipmunks in this scheme also had white canopy frames. In 1970 Training Command's new colours (Red/White/Light Aircraft Grey) were announced. The first Chipmunk in this scheme was CFS's WP807 which was painted at 5 MU Kemble in May 1970. This scheme involved the fuselage sides/undersides, wingtips, mainplane leading edges, wingroot fairings & tailplane in red, fuselage uppersurface, fin & rudder in white with all horizontal fabric surfaces in Grey. Thereafter a handful of CFS Chipmunks and the entire fleet (some 30 Chipmunks) of 2 FTS Church Fenton were painted in this scheme over the winter of 1970/1971. A revised scheme was promulgated in 1972, this was the scheme that most are familiar with;  identical fuselage treatment, wing outer panels in red with the rest (including wingroot fairings in grey) plus the elevators in red. Despite the date of the drawings Chipmunks didn't appear in this scheme until 1975! Some Chipmunks (e.g. WD310) issued to EFTS c1978 had been is storage ever since 2 FTS disbanded in 1974; these Chipmunks had the "new" R/W/LAG scheme but retained red wingroot panels.

 

Note that most Chipmunks "skipped" one or two schemes, i.e. a Chipmunk in overall silver might well have gone straight to the second R/W/LAG scheme. Certainly prior to the disposal of many ex UAS Chipmunks in 1974 it would be possible to see a lineup of Chipmunks in silver, overall Grey and the first R/W/LAG scheme.

 

And my favourite Chipmunk "niggle" - the black/white spinner/propeller blade scheme was first promulgated in 1977 by which time the Chipmunk fleet would have all been in the second R/W/LAG scheme, unlike what some restorers would have us believe! I have located just one example of a Chipmunk in the first permutation of the R/W/LAG scheme with the striped blades (WG478 at EFTS in 1978).

 

I hope this helps....

Edited August 14, 2021 by Rod Blievers
extra comment

[Rod Blievers]

Rabbit Leader - check your messages mate.

[Rabbit Leader]

I appreciate the extensive post @Rod Blievers as well as your detailed explanation of Chipmunk paint schemes. It’s obvious that this is a modelling topic where it’s best to check photographic references prior to applying paint, although that could be said for most subjects to be fair. What’s obvious is that some older schemes were certainly around much longer than any official order to change, so that kinda blurs things a little. Being a modeller and having a 1:1 example yourself, I’m sure you’ll enjoy this new Airfix release. 
 

Cheers and thanks.. Dave 

[Black Knight]

I don't think re-painting Chippies came high on the jobs list

When I was getting AEF and training in 1971 -1972 I saw

A Chippie with red / LAG wings and silver fuselage with yellow bands

A Chippie with red / LAG wings and all white fuselage / tail

A red / LAG / white scheme as we know it but the red on the wings was asymmetrical. The usual split of the LAG to red was in line with the inner edge of the aileron but on this one, one wing was like that and the other wing had the change line further out. With the roundels correctly positioned it looked rather odd 

[Rabbit Leader]

Thanks BK, there certainly is some oddball schemes in that lot, many of which would make quite interesting model subjects.! 

Cheers .. Dave  

 

[Rod Blievers]

T.21 - great stuff, thanks for the info (and name) "Fluolac".

 

A question, since it seems that CFS were tasked with producing Chipmunk schemes - what was actually wrong with the first R/W/LAG scheme? Officially at least it was disowned quite quickly - first appearing in April 1970 yet there's a DH document showing the second scheme (Mod H.307) just two years later in June 1972.

 

Any thoughts on this please?

 

[Rod Blievers]

Quote

I don't think re-painting Chippies came high on the jobs list

BK:

 

 

Generally correct. Repaints were normally only conducted when the paintwork was considered worn. One of the proposed benefits of polyurethane paints was they would last 7 years in normal service. Given that Light Aircraft Grey was introduced in 1965 but never appeared until three years' later, I also wonder if there was an element of using up old paint stocks (i.e. the cellulose Silver) here as well. The exception was if the re-paint was conducted as a "unit initiative" - two good examples would be the CFS "Skylarks" team whose Chipmunk all appeared in overall Grey in 1969 and the seemingly frenetic re-paint of the entire 2 FTS fleet in the winter of 1970/1971. Some of the PFS fleet when that unit became 2 FTS in 1970 were in overall Grey, they can't possibly have been considered "worn" yet they all promptly got the first variant of the R/W/LAG scheme.

 

I have a great fascination with oddball schemes (hence my interest in the EFTS Chipmunks in the second R/W/LAG scheme but retaining the Red wingroot panels of the first scheme). Your recollections are of considerable interest indeed. The early 1970's were an era of great variations in schemes...

 

Seemingly the only Chipmunks that retained the yellow Trainer Bands after 1960 were those that were no longer Training Command aircraft, e.g. Chipmunks belonging to Station Flights where that base wasn't part of Training Command.

[Black Knight]

4 hours ago, Rod Blievers said:

Seemingly the only Chipmunks that retained the yellow Trainer Bands after 1960 were those that were no longer Training Command aircraft, e.g. Chipmunks belonging to Station Flights where that base wasn't part of Training Command.

Interesting as the one I saw, silver fuselage with yellow bands, was based at RAF Aldergrove, 1971 I think. 

As well as for AEF afaik it was used by Army Air Corps pilots there as a 'hack'. Used to fly aircrew mainly between Aldergrove and RAF / RNAS Sydenham, Belfast afair. I use to see it at Sydenham occasionally. It might have been repainted later as soon after I never saw it ( a Chippie in that scheme) again

[Rod Blievers]

 Now I did say earlier that the early 1970's period was "tricky" regarding the variety of Chipmunk colour schemes! Here's a line-up at Shawbury showing FOUR different schemes. From L to R:

1. WP929 of 8 AEF in the second R/W/LAG scheme,

2. Unknown, possibly the second scheme,

3. unknown, again in the second scheme,

4. WK507/T of UBAS, first R/W/LAG scheme,

5. unknown, UBAS, overall Grey (niggling away at my awful memory is being told once that this was possibly WK629)

6. unknown, first R/W/LAG scheme,

7. WG301/S of UBAS, overall Silver and

8. unknown, overall Silver.

I suspect the closest three aircraft are all from 8 AEF but, being newly painted, do not (yet) sport the 8 AEF badge.

I think this is probably taken in summer of in the summer of 1973 as WK507 left UBAS in August 1973.

 

Owzat?

Edited August 15, 2021 by Rod Blievers
Spelling!

[Wez]

As Shawbury was a major storage Maintenance Unit for all sorts of aircraft cycled in and out of the fleet to equalise their hours so I suspect the reason for the different schemes in the picture above is just that, the silver aircraft has just been pulled out of storage.

 

Wings are a line replaceable unit and can be moved between aircraft hence the mix of R/LAG wings with a silver fuselage that Black Knight reports.

 

In RAF service, repaints are usually done:

 

1. As a part of a Major servicing (the cycle being Primary, Primary Star, Primary, Minor, Primary, Primary Star, Primary, Minor Star, repeat the cycle again until the next Minor Star which gets replaced by a Major), so it could be some time before an aircraft reached the point for a scheduled repaint.  This is why you see fleets in mixed schemes as their aircraft cycle through the maintenance cycle.

 

2.  As a part of a significant structural rework which lends itself to a repaint being done.

 

3.  If the current scheme is very worn and then this will usually only result in a topcoat refresh (not a strip back to bare structure, primer and full repaint)

[gingerbob]

On 8/13/2021 at 1:59 AM, Rabbit Leader said:

 

...Black Chipmunks...

 

Sounds like a rather lame rock band!

[Rod Blievers]

Quote

the silver aircraft has just been pulled out of storage.

Not in WG301's case though, issued to UBAS on 22.9.1969, at Shawbury for "mainplane refurbishment" in October 1972 but remained with UBAS until stored at Newton pending disposal in August 1975. But given that the last Chipmunk appears devoid of unit markings, then this one may well have been "pulled out of storage".

 

Quote

Wings are a line replaceable unit and can be moved between aircraft hence the mix of R/LAG wings with a silver fuselage that Black Knight reports.

I think this practice became much more common later in the Chipmunk's service life. This was the reason for the instruction not to apply underwing serials (which led to some Chipmunks being seen with only one underwing serial) before this was replaced by the instruction to remove all underwing serials (reflected in DH's Mod H.361 dated 10.10.1983).

Edited August 15, 2021 by Rod Blievers
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[Rod Blievers]

 

And speaking of underwing serials - here's one of a series given to me by a former instructor at EFTS. It's c1988, none of the formation have underwing serials except WG478/L which carries this under one wing only(!). Note the white circle on the outer wing underside which is a racing number ("6" in this case), repeated on another disc on the RH wing uppersurface as well as on the rudder.

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Rod Blievers
more

[Irish 251]

On 8/13/2021 at 6:14 AM, Rabbit Leader said:

With the recent release of Airfix's new 1/48 Chipmunk, I started thinking about the extensive and diverse range of RAF Trainer Post War colour schemes and perhaps if there are any 'official' dates when the order to change came about? The kit's Royal Navy scheme (and in similar vein to one of the latest 1/48 Gnat options) suggests a combination of Light Aircraft Grey (Hu166) with large wingtip and rear fuselage sections painted Signal Red (Hu174). The use of Signal Red surprises me a little, as I would have thought that this colour call out should be either Florescent Orange (Hu 209) or Florescent Red? Can anyone confirm or deny my suspicions?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just to pick up on the Royal Navy question, the red worn, certainly in latter days, was non-fluorescent. In this image you can see that the red of the Navy and RAF aircraft matches or at least is as near identical as makes no difference.

WP809 DHC-1 Chipmunk T.10 by Irish251, on Flickr

[John B (Sc)]

T21s post about Dayglo orange paint trials is most interesting.

 

Slightly off the Chipmunk topic thrust (most intriguing since I am, like the OP, trying to sort out in my  mind early Chipmunk UAS schemes)  -

 

At RAF Valley in 1964 I saw Gnats with orange dayglo panels painted generally - nose, rear fuselage and fin, outer wings.  These were not painted using adhesive trim, they were clearly spray painted. The orange did indeed fade rapidly, although I saw little evidence of major erosion, so that at least had been fixed !    

As far as I recall. all the Gnats, except those being used by the newly formed YellowJacks, were painted in this way then. Somewhere I have the slides  I took...

[John B (Sc)]

That picture of the Royal Navy Chipmunk reminds me - I think the FAA used Fluorescent Red quite early on, in place of the Orange used by the RAF.

Although I also have a memory of an RN Tiger Moth based at RNAS Fulmar in the Sixties being in overall aluminium with yellow T-bands, while at the same time  - & station -  Vampire trainers were in aluminium and Fluorescent Red. Can anyone confirm my rocky memory?  I think the Tiger may have been use as a glider tug.