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1/32 BE2c Scratch build


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8 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

Sorry if I’ve have missed it but how did you make those exquisite little rivet heads?

Cheers Bandsaw Steve, don't knock that Avro 504, I loved it. It was one of the builds that made me want to have a bash at scratch building!

 

The rivet heads are made with a tool, The Small Shop Nutter and Riveter, which is no longer available. The good news is that it would be very easy to make something similar. You just need to make a set of dome headed punches. Brass rod filed down? Solder/CA each into a thicker brass tube and hold that in a pin vice. 

 

The rivet heads are punched out of a soft annealed aluminium sheet I bought separately from a craft shop. You will need a rubber mat ( inner tube?) To punch the heads out onto. I have punched from the foil you get on wine bottles too but results are a bit mixed.

 

I will take some photos and try to include measurements when I get home from work to better illustrate what I mean.

 

Cheers 

Richie

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19 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

Excellent work. I especially like the stitching.
 

I had to put some stitching on my Avro 504 once upon a time but your method did not occur to me. Yours looks way better than what I came up with.

 

Sorry if I’ve have missed it but how did you make those exquisite little rivet heads?

 

RIVETS

 

Here you go Steve,

 

This is the horrendously overpriced Small Shop Nutter and Riveter, the brownish pad is just a rubberised mat. A piece of bike inner tube or tube will do 

 

The brass punches screw into the knurled handle, the prongs are around 1mm long.

 

52549118636_84d0b408cf.jpg20221207_183639 by Richard Williams, on Flickr

 

52549592070_46348ebf8c.jpg20221207_183731 by Richard Williams, on Flickr

 

The tool is discontinued and the foil that comes with it is unavailable too. Just as well because it was more blatant profiteering.

 

I had a little play by simply holding 0.5mm brass rod in a Tamiya micro pin vice with no attempt to dome the end of the rod and punched some rivets. I then used foil from a wine bottle. At first this was unsuccessful but I sanded down the coloured side of the foil and hey presto, rivets!

 

52549449334_83335f2236.jpg20221207_185616 by Richard Williams, on Flickr

 

The rivets on the left are  from the supplied foil, on the right are from wine bottle foil. The rivets are placed by picking them up with a fine paintbrush soaked in Klear floor polish. They have a right way up so wearing an optivisor is a good idea.

 

I also have a large roll of soft lead/aluminium foil i bought cheaply from a craft shop. I think it's called embossing foil which I have been using. The rivets on the fuel tank cowling were made from it.

 

The Tamiya pin vice is for use with their excellent micro drill bits but any one will do. You will probably have to CA or solder the brass rod into a thicker brass tube so it is wide enough to be held by your pin vice.

 

The take home lesson for me is that stuff specifically aimed at modellers is massively overpriced. I now use turps for oil washes, Isopropyl alcohol to clean airbrushes and thin CA glue and talc as filler.

 

Hope that helps

Richie

Edited by RichieW
Wrong photos
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18 minutes ago, bigbadbadge said:

drilling all the stitching holes sounds a bit of a mare

You're not wrong there Chris, it took me all morning. At least I had the cricket to listen to on the radio. I'm not much looking forward to repeating the process!

 

22 minutes ago, bigbadbadge said:

Great work on the tank cover Richie, looks awesome fella

Much appreciated mate, that was a really fun and pretty straightforward part to make. 

 

Richie

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Thanks for that riveting answer. 
 

Gettit?!?! Riveting!! 🤣
 

God I crack myself up sometimes. 🤣

 

It’s hard being an undiscovered comedy genius, but sometimes there are these small moments that make it all worthwhile…

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8 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

It’s hard being an undiscovered comedy genius, but sometimes there are these small moments that make it all worthwhile

There's even more talent on this forum than I ever realised. I did stand up once but sitting down is so much easier...groan.:)

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This is all splendid and inspirational work Richie! There are a few 1/32 models of planes that I’d like to have but would need to scratchbuild, like a Percival Proctor, but never had the courage nor time to contemplate doing, but your thread is drawing me in! 

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4 hours ago, galgos said:

This is all splendid and inspirational work Richie! There are a few 1/32 models of planes that I’d like to have but would need to scratchbuild, like a Percival Proctor, but never had the courage nor time to contemplate doing, but your thread is drawing me in! 

Have a go Galgos, I've see your work and I can honestly say I am humbled by your modelling skills. This is only my 2nd scratchbuild so it is a slow process for me. I honestly think you would take to it like a duck to water. There are superb books on scratchbuilding by Megas Tsonos and John Alcorn and of course Harry Woodman's classic tome. It is much easier than I make it look and so rewarding. 

 

Richie

5 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

We get told to ‘step up’ at work all the time. I don’t mind, I think ‘Stepping up’ is a lot easier than ‘stand up’ . 

Much better than being asked to step outside in the pub too! 🍺😂

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53 minutes ago, RichieW said:

Have a go Galgos, I've see your work and I can honestly say I am humbled by your modelling skills. This is only my 2nd scratchbuild so it is a slow process for me. I honestly think you would take to it like a duck to water. There are superb books on scratchbuilding by Megas Tsonos and John Alcorn and of course Harry Woodman's classic tome. It is much easier than I make it look and so rewarding. 

And funnily enough I have all of those books……which shows my intention at least! 😂🤔  Perhaps I need to knuckle down to study them more seriously! 

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1 hour ago, galgos said:

And funnily enough I have all of those books……which shows my intention at least! 😂🤔  Perhaps I need to knuckle down to study them more seriously! 

Haha, the first steps are taken! A Percival Proctor would be a brilliant subject too. The most important thing to remember is that if you cock something up you have not ruined an expensive kit and can have another go. 

 

Richie

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1 hour ago, galgos said:

And funnily enough I have all of those books……which shows my intention at least! 😂🤔  Perhaps I need to knuckle down to study them more seriously! 

No. 

Preparatory study and planning is not the answer! Doing is the answer! And making mistakes and reading a bit and doing some more and reading a bit and posting here and discussing with with folks here and  throwing out a dud bit and redoing the dud bit and posting again and reading a bit more and so and so and so until you’ve built something that passes your own standards. 👍
 

Then start a new project and repeat! 
 

If you only read you will most likely procrastinate and become intimidated by the expertise of those world-class experts and never start and never give yourself the chance to really learn.

 

Get started! That’s the key, and a 1/32 Proctor would be a great subject for a beginner! 👍

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43 minutes ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

Preparatory study and planning is not the answer! Doing is the answer! And making mistakes and reading a bit and doing some more and reading a bit and posting here and discussing with with folks here and  throwing out a dud bit and redoing the dud bit and posting again and reading a bit more and so and so and so until you’ve built something that passes your own standards. 👍

This is exactly how I got started, my lack of planning caused me a few problems later but with all the advice and encouragement I received I was able to find solutions. Cooking stuff up is good fun too! :) 

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Just a little update but quite an important step I think.

 

52550971536_443c71c705.jpg20221208_170540 by Richard Williams, on Flickr

 

The tailplane parts are pretty much finished, I added a few more details, washers from punched styrene and nuts which are just punched rivet heads. I still had a length of 0.5mm brass rod in my pin vice so I just used this instead of the obscenely expensive tool I bought when I used to earn a reasonable living.

 

4 short brass rod pins from 0.5mm rod were then added to the elevators, I was worried about lining up the holes in the tailplane parts, measuring things precisely never seems to work out very precisely for me. My solution was to start with just one pin in the elevator flap, put a blob of black paint on the pin, line up the elevator and wing and push them together. A neat little paint blob gave the exact drilling location. the next pin was added and the process repeated until I had all four perfectly located and the parts pinned together perfectly. Note this was the second attempt, my first effort involved all four pins at the same time and it didn't work without a lot of fettling.

 

The process was repeated for the rudder and tail fin and it was time for a test fit on the fuselage frame.

 

52551442870_ff928de781.jpg20221208_165440 by Richard Williams, on Flickr

 

Quick check for translucency, after all the painting decaling and general mucking around;

 

52550971396_e9d409454d.jpg20221208_165545 by Richard Williams, on Flickr

 

Job done! There are still little brackets, washers and bolts for the underside and rigging holes to be drilled but otherwise the tailplane is finished. 

 

I just noticed that one of my elevator flaps has warped, to straighten it would be to risk popping the ribs and ruining it. To leave it as it is would look pretty excremental. Luckily a scratch build comes with virtually an infinite number of spare parts so it looks like a hair dryer and modelling vice will be pressed into service later. 

 

Richie

 

 

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1 hour ago, galgos said:

But that’s not the way I work Steve, I’m first and foremost a researcher, thinker and planner. I couldn’t do it any other way. 

Fair enough mate. Each to their own. It is after all a hobby, so ‘you do you’ as they say, 👍

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2 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

No. 

Preparatory study and planning is not the answer! Doing is the answer! And making mistakes and reading a bit and doing some more and reading a bit and posting here and discussing with with folks here and  throwing out a dud bit and redoing the dud bit and posting again and reading a bit more and so and so and so until you’ve built something that passes your own standards. 👍
 

Then start a new project and repeat! 
 

If you only read you will most likely procrastinate and become intimidated by the expertise of those world-class experts and never start and never give yourself the chance to really learn.

Get started! That’s the key, and a 1/32 Proctor would be a great subject for a beginner! 👍

 

Got to agree with you Steve!....when I started out scratch building the "re doing" of parts made me learn so much!...and I had plenty of help here on BM!...the books and how to do's were helpful but practice making parts makes perfect in my book!......but of course this method is not set in stone...each modeller has their own way!😉

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Oh despite my not intending to go down Bandsaw Steve’s route if/when I do get round to scratchbuilding, I don’t doubt I’ll be making many failed attempts at every stage so learning the hard way! 

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Cockpit coaming

 

Well folks another little step taken albeit only partial little step.

 

The cockpit coaming is quite complicated with cut outs needed for inspection windows as well as the apertures for the crew.

 

The first step was to use my former to bend 0.5mm styrene into shape and here it all went very wrong straight away. I heated the sheet first with a hair dryer then bent it round the former. I used rubber bands to hold it all in place before plunging it first into boiling water followed by cold water so it would hold the shape. Unfortunately the the rubber bands caused indentations along the whole length of the piece. I can't stand throwing out plastic so I spent a few days filling, sanding, priming in what felt like a never ending cycle until I had rescued it. It would have been much better to use the vacform machine as originally intended.

 

The next step involved transferring the positions of the cut outs onto Tamiya tape before applying it to the coaming piece. I was aware enough to make sure the centre lines were marked for correct alignment. Sadly after heavily sampling a rather pleasant overproof rum last night I was not aware enough to allow for the slope of the sides before marking out the two forward inspection windows.

 

52556997623_2483839e75_z.jpg20221211_110633 by Richard Williams, on Flickr

 

The cutouts were made by drilling lots of little holes and then playing join the dots with a scalpel. As you can see the forward inspection windows are far too close to where the windshield will sit so there will be yet more filling and sanding in my future.

 

52556926035_d07dfc538b_z.jpg20221211_124945 by Richard Williams, on Flickr

 

The inspection windows were adjusted by cementing styrene sheet underneath and filling with milliput.

 

52556455611_b105315f5c_z.jpg20221211_145708 by Richard Williams, on Flickr

 

The propeller was stained with thinned MRP paint, I can't remember the exact mix. I had hoped that the wood grain would show through but I can live with that result, from a scale distance you most definitely would not see it anyway. 

 

52556997303_6dd69bb392_z.jpg20221211_150104 by Richard Williams, on Flickr

 

As I said, only a partial small step forward, the coaming needs a lot more attention, but that little job took the whole morning. Hopefully I can show you the completed part and a turtle deck next time.

 

Thanks for reading

Richie

 

 

 

 

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Hi Richie 

The empenage looks wonderful, great job getting all aligned and the translucency looks fantastic, I can’t see the warping to be honest but it will bug you I am sure.

The coaming is coming on well and am sure you will get into fine fettle soon enough.   I had the same issue with the elastic bands when building a narrow gauge coach roof and it looked very wavy!!! Got it eventually with tape!

The Prop and IP looks great fella.

Fantastic work all round Richie.

Chris

 

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4 hours ago, galgos said:

Acorns = oak trees Richie! Excellent work throughout. 

Thanks Max, I'm going to remember that one and make it my new motto. 😀 

 

1 hour ago, bigbadbadge said:

I can’t see the warping to be honest but it will bug you I am sure

Cheers Chris, yes there's definitely a bit of a wave in trailing edge of the left elevator. It's driving me nuts but I'm going to leave it for now. It probably won't bother me at all in the morning. 

 

 The elastic bands problem was a nasty surprise. Neither of us will be doing things that way again!

 

Richie

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My apologies first of all for not commenting on this build eecently but life has a habit of getting in the way sometimes.

I love the work you are doing on this. There's some real skill and workmanship on show and those flying surfaces are just delightful.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, hendie said:

My apologies first of all for not commenting on this build eecently but life has a habit of getting in the way sometimes.

No need for apologies mate, this dropped off even my own radar while my workspace was out of commission for a whole year! 

 

Thanks so much for dropping by and leaving your generous feedback. I'm loving what you are doing with the camper van BTW. I'm about halfway through the thread so far, back up to speed with it soon.

 

Richie

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