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Was RAAF Earth Brown used on Aussie Mk.VIII Spitfires?


Red Dog
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2 hours ago, Red Dog said:

My eyes have been opened. Disappointing to hear about the errors in the Airframe & Miniature series of books.

Others maybe better.   

2 hours ago, Red Dog said:

I do like their format but to have such simple errors on easily accessible information seems lazy.

If you look at the amount of books they release,  and it's a small team,  I don't think it's laziness,  they are just done quickly, and don't get read by someone who is up on the given subject.

2 hours ago, Red Dog said:

At least we have a platform here to share these inaccuracies and learn .

Thanks

yes, except they are not cheap.  And then needing an error list to know what you can and can't trust.  To me, that makes them nearly useless,  as if if you need to know a subject in detail to know what is wrong, then you don't need the book as you already know more then the book.....

 

I did actually phone the publisher, Mark Peacock, talked to him for 10 mins, said I thiugh the Hurricane book wasn't very good,  he was  very affable and pleasant.  In the course of the conversation he said he had worked in advertising for many years. 

I mentioned the profiles in many cases being ones without known reference photos "Richard Caruana doesn't copy profiles" I was told.  He does recycle them, as  I found a load online from the book I linked and they are identical. (and, erroro riddled) 

Re Caruana, someone I know did a book, and he did the profiles, said he was very pleasant chap, but you had to keep hammering away at him to get the details right, as in multiple times.

 

So It's a business.  The books look good,  and appear impressive and authorative.  They by and large, get good and positive reviews,  they sell,  and as .long as they sell, and don't get called out for shoddiness, and don't sell, why bother to improve them.   They are now one of the 'go to' sellers for a handy reference on a type,  you quoted them as one of your sources.    

 

Now, the only one I have is the Hurricane one, and it is my pet subject.  but there are some real howlers in there,  I'm not talking about the odd mistake, but multiples, some that are to the point of fantasy. 

 

  I have been compiling a list, but it's depressing doing it.  one real oddity, there are comments made in a questioning manner, as in the author is surprised by certain details......  the sort of thing you might ask on here, to get an answer,  not put in a 'reference' book!    

Example, there are some good images in the book, one shows the inside of the Hurricane Mk.IV windscreen,  of the one in Belgrade,  Great image, showing the armour glass side panels and heavier framing,  but met with puzzlement,  as well as missing all the other late IID/IV specific details, most of which are features of the Hurricane in Belgrade!!!!!!   They must have missed the paragraph in the manual which describes these details.  

They also don't appear to have discovered the wealth of knowledge on forums....   available, for free.   Model companies find people to help on projects this way. 

They could easily set up an account on here and other fora,  and ask...    

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21 hours ago, Red Dog said:

Amazing the wealth of knowledge you have collected over the years Peter.  Thanks for clearing 'the two greens' theory up.

You just wont let me model something different and slightly off beat will you. 🤬

I'm open to new info or interpretations but do like to confirm it if possible.

Very jealous of you being able to spend time and talk with some of our nations heroes and now share their stories.

 

Fly in at Swan Hill you say, I may have been at that one too. Was at many a fly in during the 80's with the family and the AAAA.

Thanks heaps for your time and replies.

Andrew (Red Dog) McLean

Yeah, I went to many fly-ins in the 70's, 80's and 90's, mainly Victoria and NSW - Wangaratta, Albury, Ballarat, Point Cook, Swan Hill, Casey Field, and Bowral spring to mind. Almost got wiped out when a Volksplane veered off the runway at Wang. Also remember another A/C hit the power lines and crashed. Ah, the good old days, SAAA and AAAA!

Peter

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10 hours ago, Peter Roberts said:

Great info Peter, thank you.

 

A question if I may - do you know if the RAAF also carried RAF paint stocks (or close equivalents) to refinish or touch up aircraft, or would they have been confined to RAAF paints?

 

ie, if a VC in RAF Dark Earth/RAAF Foliage Green/RAF Azure Blue needed repair what paint would have been available?

Hi Peter,

 

I don't believe that the RAAF carried RAF paint stocks but, they did have their own eqivalents of a number of RAF paints, (e.g. K3/216 Dark Green, K3/209 Dark Earth, K3/225 Light Green, K3/223 Light Earth, and also the maritime greys), probably mainly intended for use on the training types and seaplanes received from the UK from 1940 on, e.g. Battle, Oxford, Anson, Tiger Moth, Walrus etc. A lot has been written about the RAAF colours not being exact matches to the RAF colours of the same name but, this is probably due to the quality of the samples being matched and well within experimental error. These were certainly listed in RAAF stores by early 1942, long before Spitfires started arriving so would have been available. Re Azure Blue: this came somewhat later, circa 1943.

 

I can't comment on what paint would have been available at erection ADs, or at RSUs and ARDs. I suspect that the RAF equivalents were mainly sent to training units operating those aircraft, and may have not been available at the larger depots, but that is only supposition. Certainly Earth Brown, Foliage Green and, later, Sky Blue were readily available. I suspect that the RAF equivalents may have been used on early Spitfire VCs but, they seem to have been well and truly out of use by late 1943, when the Spitfire VIIIs started arriving. I have also read that Spitfire VCs were shipped with small quantities of paint for touch up on erection but, have never found any direct evidence of this. Perhaps one of out UK colleagues may have more info on this.

 

Sorry I can't give a definite answer.

 

Peter

 

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Just now, gingerbob said:

It would be a rather embarrasing fate to be run over by a Volksplane, of all things!

I've never hit the ground so quickly. He had veered left off the runway, straight towards three of us taking photos, passed over us, (flat out on the grass), by a few feet and disappeared off through the trees. Somehow he managed to avoid hitting anything and climbed out. At least, with a Vokesplane, everything happened realtively slowly!

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13 minutes ago, Magpie22 said:

Hi Peter,

 

I don't believe that the RAAF carried RAF paint stocks but, they did have their own eqivalents of a number of RAF paints, (e.g. K3/216 Dark Green, K3/209 Dark Earth, K3/225 Light Green, K3/223 Light Earth, and also the maritime greys), probably mainly intended for use on the training types and seaplanes received from the UK from 1940 on, e.g. Battle, Oxford, Anson, Tiger Moth, Walrus etc. A lot has been written about the RAAF colours not being exact matches to the RAF colours of the same name but, this is probably due to the quality of the samples being matched and well within experimental error. These were certainly listed in RAAF stores by early 1942, long before Spitfires started arriving so would have been available. Re Azure Blue: this came somewhat later, circa 1943.

 

I can't comment on what paint would have been available at erection ADs, or at RSUs and ARDs. I suspect that the RAF equivalents were mainly sent to training units operating those aircraft, and may have not been available at the larger depots, but that is only supposition. Certainly Earth Brown, Foliage Green and, later, Sky Blue were readily available. I suspect that the RAF equivalents may have been used on early Spitfire VCs but, they seem to have been well and truly out of use by late 1943, when the Spitfire VIIIs started arriving. I have also read that Spitfire VCs were shipped with small quantities of paint for touch up on erection but, have never found any direct evidence of this. Perhaps one of out UK colleagues may have more info on this.

 

Sorry I can't give a definite answer.

 

Peter

 

Thanks Peter - I was curious to know what may have happened where touch ups or repaint for repairs were needed over original RAF paint. Appreciate your knowledge here. It sounds like RAF paint was around, but may not have been readily available in these instances, so perhaps a bit of a patchwork. The over painting of RAF roundels may be a guide to what may have happened (?)

 

Edit - writing about RAF roundel mods, raises a question. The upper surfaces were I believe modified with RAAF upper surface paints (often foliage green?), but what about the lower surfaces? RAAF Sky Blue? Sorry for all the questions - perhaps over thinking this?

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On 8/11/2021 at 4:51 PM, Magpie22 said:

Always happy to talk Aussie Spits.

 

Hi Peter,

I wish you were now working with Eduard on an "Aussie Fives" dual boxing. Some really interesting subjects to portray and a nice way to present some up to date research on RAAF colours.

Ray

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10 hours ago, Ray_W said:

 

Hi Peter,

I wish you were now working with Eduard on an "Aussie Fives" dual boxing. Some really interesting subjects to portray and a nice way to present some up to date research on RAAF colours.

Ray

 

I’d second that!

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15 hours ago, Ray_W said:

 

Hi Peter,

I wish you were now working with Eduard on an "Aussie Fives" dual boxing. Some really interesting subjects to portray and a nice way to present some up to date research on RAAF colours.

Ray

Back in January last year, Eduard asked if I would be willing to do such a volume. I replied in the affirmative, but wanted to cover both VB and VC. I have not heard from then since, so assume they have abandoned the idea.

Peter M

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18 hours ago, Peter Roberts said:

 

 

Edit - writing about RAF roundel mods, raises a question. The upper surfaces were I believe modified with RAAF upper surface paints (often foliage green?), but what about the lower surfaces? RAAF Sky Blue? Sorry for all the questions - perhaps over thinking this?

 

Generally the under wing roundels were left at the same OD, just the red painted out.

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26 minutes ago, Magpie22 said:

I have not heard from then since, so assume they have abandoned the idea.

 

Hopefully they'll come back soon. They could take my pre-order now.

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1 hour ago, Drop Bear said:

How good would be an accurate Five AND an Eight in the one box 

 'Tell him he's dreaming'.

Things could not be that good.

Eduard are bringing out a Vb & Vc dual boxing.

Revied here by Brett Green on Hyperscale http://hyperscale.com/2021/reviews/kits/eduard11149reviewbg_1.htm

Would be good marketing though. Different boxings could include

USAAF Vc & VIII (North Africa)

RAAF Vc & VIII

SAAF Vc & VIII 

RAF Vc & VIII in the Far East

 

I'm sure there's others. 

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