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Could FAA Buccaneers carry Sea Eagles?


bettymoo
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Hello gents,

I'm building the new airfix buccaneer S2C in 1/72 and I really wanted to mount a pair of sea eagles I stole from a Hasegawa sea harrier kir. However it dawned on me that the only photos I've seen of buccs and sea eagles were all from the RAF. 

 

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Dont think so.  The timings are wrong.  Sea Eagle was introduced into service in 1985.  The Bucc left FAA service with the end of the Carriers and airframes went to the RAF much earlier in 1978.  

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Definetely not. Sea Eagle entered service several years after the FAA lost their Buccs.

 

Also, when fitting Sea Eagles, you'll need the later style long and shallow pylons, as opposed to the short and deep pylons in the Airfix S.2C. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

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18 minutes ago, JohnT said:

Dont think so.  The timings are wrong.  Sea Eagle was introduced into service in 1985.  The Bucc left FAA service with the end of the Carriers and airframes went to the RAF much earlier in 1978.  

Thought as much, pity though, she would have looked good with those sea eagles 

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19 minutes ago, JohnT said:

Dont think so.  The timings are wrong.  Sea Eagle was introduced into service in 1985.  The Bucc left FAA service with the end of the Carriers and airframes went to the RAF much earlier in 1978.  

Thanks 

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8 minutes ago, bettymoo said:

Thought as much, pity though, she would have looked good with those sea eagles 

I suppose you could do one either as a "what if" service or trial aircraft maybe.  Alternatively if you can source a set of Martel missiles they were operation items on the Bucc if I recall correctly - up to 3 TV guided or 4 Anti radiation ones.

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14 minutes ago, JohnT said:

I suppose you could do one either as a "what if" service or trial aircraft maybe.  Alternatively if you can source a set of Martel missiles they were operation items on the Bucc if I recall correctly - up to 3 TV guided or 4 Anti radiation ones.

Martels are sea eagles but without the intakes for the turbojet?

Just now, bettymoo said:

Martels are sea eagles but without the intakes for the turbojet?

What kind of pylons would I need for martels?

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27 minutes ago, bettymoo said:

What kind of pylons would I need for martels?

The long and shallow ones, as per my earlier post.

 

A maximum of four anti-radar Martels could be carried by the Bucc, the max number of the bluntnosed TV guided version was three, due to the required guidance pod taking up a pylon.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

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31 minutes ago, bettymoo said:

Martels are sea eagles but without the intakes for the turbojet?

Plus a shorter nose.

 

Airfix's previous tool 1/72nd S.2 has all required parts.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

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15 hours ago, Hook said:

Plus a shorter nose.

 

Airfix's previous tool 1/72nd S.2 has all required parts.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

Martels are not Sea Eagles without the intake!

The Sea Eagle was initially based on the Martel airframe. It had  a different Guidance system, a different warhead and a turbojet instead of a rocket engine, the only thing carried across was the wings and fins./

 

Selwyn

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  • 2 weeks later...

Incidentally, "yes" is the answer to OP's question, but long after they were transferred to the RAF and with a fair bit of modifications. It is a bit like being in the US Marine Corp though I think; once an FAA Bucc, always an FAA Bucc?!

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On 8/24/2021 at 2:14 AM, wadeocu said:

Incidentally, "yes" is the answer to OP's question, but long after they were transferred to the RAF and with a fair bit of modifications. It is a bit like being in the US Marine Corp though I think; once an FAA Bucc, always an FAA Bucc?!

The answer is no. FAA Buccaneers couldn't carry Sea Eagle as it went into UK service after the FAA Buccaneers were retired.

RAF Buccaneers could when the missile went into RAF service.

The FAA used Sea Eagles on Sea Harriers.

 

Selwyn

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On 8/10/2021 at 8:34 AM, Selwyn said:

Martels are not Sea Eagles without the intake!

The Sea Eagle was initially based on the Martel airframe. It had  a different Guidance system, a different warhead and a turbojet instead of a rocket engine, the only thing carried across was the wings and fins./

 

Selwyn

 

I think it was at an RAF History Society event that someone observed that the Sea Eagle was a minor modification of the Martel.

One of the individuals involved in the P3T/Sea Eagle politely and gently  put him straight....

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30 minutes ago, Uncle Dick said:

Don't despair you can mount Martels instead! 

 

Barely notice the difference Martel is slightly smaller compare the pair!

 

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Barely notice the difference? Apart from that great big air intake fairing on the bottom of the  Sea Eagle missile that isn't shown in this photo?

 

Selwyn

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1 hour ago, Selwyn said:

Barely notice the difference? Apart from that great big air intake fairing on the bottom of the  Sea Eagle missile that isn't shown in this photo?

And the fact that that's a TV guided Martel, with a very different front end compared to the ARM version.

 

Cheers, 

 

Andre

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Bettymoo don't be dissuaded by the knit pickers, I intended to stir them up with some humour and true to form they took the bait ...  (there are in fact a lot more differences than mentioned above, so that is a Fail Grade to the knit pickers on the differences) nothing wrong with lugging Martels on your Bucc in fact it is a very impressive load out, even the Hasegawa Sea Eagles from the Sea Harrier kit can be modified to look like Martels and I bet you even the knit pickers will find it nigh impossible to tell the difference without resort to their Mr Bean Micron Tape Measure or any side by side reference on hand - as if you listen to the knit pickers every model kit has inaccuracies and you might as well give up on modelling altogether!

 

I say put the Sea Eagles on your Bucc if you want to! It would be one impressive looking model

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11 hours ago, Uncle Dick said:

Bettymoo don't be dissuaded by the knit pickers, I intended to stir them up with some humour and true to form they took the bait ...  (there are in fact a lot more differences than mentioned above, so that is a Fail Grade to the knit pickers on the differences) nothing wrong with lugging Martels on your Bucc in fact it is a very impressive load out, even the Hasegawa Sea Eagles from the Sea Harrier kit can be modified to look like Martels and I bet you even the knit pickers will find it nigh impossible to tell the difference without resort to their Mr Bean Micron Tape Measure or any side by side reference on hand - as if you listen to the knit pickers every model kit has inaccuracies and you might as well give up on modelling altogether!

 

I say put the Sea Eagles on your Bucc if you want to! It would be one impressive looking model

Uncle Dick, find your comments hilarious as I wouldn't even consider what  I posted as being nit picking!

 As I was a technical instructor on the Sea Eagle in a past life believe me if I really wanted to nit pick I could send you criminally insane with the detail differences! 😉

 

Selwyn

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Selwyn I find your comments hilarious also, you just demonstrated that you were knit picking! And for what purpose do most people like you knit pick? Well of course, here we have it - to boast of course:

On 8/29/2021 at 9:51 PM, Selwyn said:

As I was a technical instructor on the Sea Eagle 

I would still venture you could not differentiate a Hasegawa 1/72 Sea Eagle under the wing of a Buc from a 1/72 Martel without looking closely (I take it you did know that the air intake on the Hasegawa Sea Eagle model is a separate part and can easily not be attached to the model - of course you did) because wait for it:

On 8/29/2021 at 9:51 PM, Selwyn said:

As I was a technical instructor on the Sea Eagle

Carry on...

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3 hours ago, Uncle Dick said:

Selwyn I find your comments hilarious also, you just demonstrated that you were knit picking! And for what purpose do most people like you knit pick? Well of course, here we have it - to boast of course:

I would still venture you could not differentiate a Hasegawa 1/72 Sea Eagle under the wing of a Buc from a 1/72 Martel without looking closely (I take it you did know that the air intake on the Hasegawa Sea Eagle model is a separate part and can easily not be attached to the model - of course you did) because wait for it:

Carry on...

I would still venture you could not differentiate a Hasegawa 1/72 Sea Eagle under the wing of a Buc from a 1/72 Martel without looking closely

You are wrong. I could tell the difference from about 2 feet without effort. If they were painted and marked correctly and i was wearing my glasses probably further out than that.

But hey,I have only been working on this sort of stuff for about forty two years, so what would I know!😎

 

Selwyn

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8 minutes ago, Selwyn said:

I have only been working on this sort of stuff for about forty two years, so what would I know!

 

I get the same feeling whenever I talk about so-called rivets and I'm a Fairy (RAF Avionics trade), when you've had your nose pressed against these things day in day out you gain a certain appreciation.  I'm a Johnny Come Lately, I've only been doing it for 38 years.

 

I've enjoyed this thread, I had no idea there was a link between the Martel and the Sea Eagle on account of only working on airframes where tool control was paramount, it makes sense if you think about it, why repeat history if you've got a perfectly good airframe, just update it to change the propulsion method (I never knew that), guidance systems (obvious), bigger warhead (well why not, 1 1/2 times bang for your buck)! 

 

Thanks for your input Selwyn, I've learnt loads.

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Lest I be accused of (k)nit-picking - but is it knit- or nit-picking?

Your pic @Uncle Dick suggests there are also quite significant differences in front fin section and cable ducts in real life. How visible they end up in 1/72 is possibly another matter. --- Would the OP's question have to be answered with "yes" if extended by "at any point in their service life"? I think yes - or not? Let's not get down into Sophism on either side, life is relatively relative. 

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