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Mystery Luftwaffe hangar structure

Rob de Bie

By Rob de Bie
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Rob de Bie Very Obsessed Member

Rob de Bie

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5 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

I was thinking it was a fixed frame work for bomb handling.

Block & tackle fixed on beams (now gone) for lifting bombs on and off trucks and dollies

 

Good thinking, but there's a problem: this structure is the the one furthest away from the Volkel bomb dump 🙂 That bomb dump, just south of Odiliapeel, is another interesting relic, a lot of it is still visible. Most of the bombs and ammo was (apparently) stored in horse-shoe shaped open pits in a wood. The sand that way dug out made a revetment-type wall around it. There are some 70 of these pits still recognisable, it's quite unbelievable when you walk around there, you find one after the other. And if you don't know about it, it just looks like uneven ground 🙂 During road works some 2 years ago, small-gauge tracks were found nearby, that were used for transporting the munitions.

 

Rob

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davecov Very Obsessed Member

davecov

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3 hours ago, Rob de Bie said:

 

Another good suggestion. But I think the structure is excessively strong for even that! It's no use putting an 88 mm on a hangar roof, only smaller calibers for local defence would be useful.

 

I often read about flak towers on airfields, without having a clue what they looked like. Until I found these photos recently:

 

https://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/foto-s/detail/eb63bd74-8f07-83e8-25d6-1a90776d5abc/media/1a95c5d0-48b1-b7b1-2ebb-7414d48c609e

 

https://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/foto-s/detail/94cc0534-2e9e-2389-4b8b-86af0a469d66/media/386560e3-3869-eea5-69a3-40a81ea66023

 

https://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/foto-s/detail/971b2c97-049f-304a-7e16-9773164c1229/media/e083a173-7954-6a4a-2934-9e0730665cd3

 

Now that doesn't proof they all looked like that either..


Rob

 

 

 

To paraphrase Mick Dundee, "That's not a flak tower, this is a flak tower". Flakturm VII "Peter" G-Tower in Augarten, Vienna, 2019:


spacer.png

 

L-Tower in Augarten, Vienna, 2019:

spacer.png

 

Having been right up close to these, I can see why they didn't try to blow them up!

 

Dave

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Rob de Bie Very Obsessed Member

Rob de Bie

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That's an interesting comparison. I found the following:

 

https://trexplorer.co.uk/holton-heaths-anti-aircraft-gun-towers/

 

And indeed they have a somewhat similar structure. With the hangar at the extreme edge of the air base, it would make sense to have some anti-aircraft guns on top of it.

 

Rob

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JWM Completely Obsessed Member

JWM

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12 hours ago, Alex Gordon said:

I found this photo here https://historicalfighters.com/hangar-1/

On above photo the upper surface does not look flat, for me it is concave (do you see it also?) what makes whole thing even more puzzling. The height of concrete spars suggests that expected force acting from top was much more than just a roof. The iron  rods coming out to sides from spar suggest that something was expected to be attached here. The right legs re shorter, maybe it is a piece of starting ramp for some Wuderfaffe machine, of course  elusive and hidden project?

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Bozothenutter Very Obsessed Member

Bozothenutter

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13 hours ago, Alex Gordon said:

I found this photo here https://historicalfighters.com/hangar-1/

 

a0d7d55b-83fb-4bbf-b4b7-004560de0f0d.JPG

 

 

this seems to be the same structure!

one end of it seems to have sunken a bit

 

Strange how a google search for hangar, T hangar, etc does not throw up any pictures of these, nor does de more generic Luftwaffe hangar.

It does seem the 'T' designation is more generic and not Luftwaffe specific. (it is used a lot in connection with US type hangars.

 

https://historicalfighters.com/hangar-1/ mention that something called BABOV (Bureau Aanleg Beheer en Onderhoud Vliegvelden) made drawing of all structures encountered on Dutch airfields.

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alt-92 Very Obsessed Member

alt-92

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1 hour ago, JWM said:

The right legs re shorter, maybe it is a piece of starting ramp for some Wuderfaffe machine, of course  elusive and hidden project?

Let's not get carried away, ok?  ;)


As was stated earlier in the thread, they tried to blow the structure but only partially succeeded.

 

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Werdna Very Obsessed Member

Werdna

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1 hour ago, darthspud said:

V2 test and repair facility?

 

 

I could be wrong, but 1940 is probably a bit early for that.  And Volkel is probably the wrong location..

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Simon Very Obsessed Member

Simon

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3 minutes ago, Muddyf said:

Worth looking on this site, has aerial photos taken 20th June 1944 - https://library.wur.nl/WebQuery/geoportal/raf

 

The photo in question is Flight 343, run 05, photo 3031, i wont link due to copyright.

 

Hopefully may be useful to people in th know.

 

 

Page 5977, just to make it easier to find :)

 

 

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alt-92 Very Obsessed Member

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Yes, thanks :)  That series does show the apron and shelter layout was located in what is now the forested area to the northwest of the current airbase - from the orientation in the Tempest pic, that does match.

And there are similar structures present, also notice the brickwork rubble on the foreground.

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Rob de Bie Very Obsessed Member

Rob de Bie

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17 hours ago, Alex Gordon said:

I found this photo here https://historicalfighters.com/hangar-1/

 

a0d7d55b-83fb-4bbf-b4b7-004560de0f0d.JPG

 

Judging from the lack of vegetation, that must be a very old photo. But it does remind me that the whole area was quite barren compared to today.

 

The site you link to contains a lot of good information, including that wartime map that I was looking for:

 

https://historicalfighters.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/afb_2.jpg

 

The skeleton hangar is the seen at the top of the drawing, if you exted 'dispersal' in 'west dispersal area' you would hit it.

 

The text describes the skeleton hangar as a 'T-hangar'. But that doesn't appear to a German designation, I cannot find anything using that as a search term.


Rob


Rob

 

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Rob de Bie Very Obsessed Member

Rob de Bie

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5 hours ago, Simon said:

If you do a Google Image search for 'volkel farm hangar' there are several photos on Alamy, taken in 1949.

 

And this photo shows something similar?

 

https://ww2today.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/RAF-Tempest-Holland.jpg

 

Simon

 

Thanks for the Alamy photo tip - saved for further study!

 

Whether the Tempest photo shows the same hangar, that's a tough one! The roof has the same slightly concave shape. But I cannot really match it with the map (link) of that corner of the airbase.

 

Rob

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Rob de Bie Very Obsessed Member

Rob de Bie

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4 hours ago, Muddyf said:

Worth looking on this site, has aerial photos taken 20th June 1944 - https://library.wur.nl/WebQuery/geoportal/raf

 

The photo in question is Flight 343, run 05, photo 3031, i wont link due to copyright.

 

Hopefully may be useful to people in th know.

 

Wow, thanks for that great link, I did not know such a database existed! I think this photo shows the hangar best:

 

https://mapserver.library.wur.nl/wxsservice/flights/343/runs/05/aerialphotos/3031?service=wms&version=1.3.0&request=GetMap&layers=343_05_3031&crs=EPSG:28992&bbox=172373,404845,177348,409831&width=2961&height=2967&srs=EPSG:28992&format=image/png

 

It shows quite clearly that the hangar in question had a 'hip roof' (had to look that up) with an extension to the rear, the extension had a 'gable roof'. Therefore I think it was indeed disguised as a farm. Pretty useless since it was surrounded by classic Deisel hangars..

 

This seems to answer the original question: it was a relatively normal hangar, probably disguised as a farm. I still cannot understand the massive structure though. On the other hand, these 'T-hangars' were big enough for a Fw200, you can't build a hangar of that size with a few wooden beams.


Rob

 

 

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Bozothenutter Very Obsessed Member

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50 minutes ago, Rob de Bie said:

 

Wow, thanks for that great link, I did not know such a database existed! I think this photo shows the hangar best:

 

https://mapserver.library.wur.nl/wxsservice/flights/343/runs/05/aerialphotos/3031?service=wms&version=1.3.0&request=GetMap&layers=343_05_3031&crs=EPSG:28992&bbox=172373,404845,177348,409831&width=2961&height=2967&srs=EPSG:28992&format=image/png

 

It shows quite clearly that the hangar in question had a 'hip roof' (had to look that up) with an extension to the rear, the extension had a 'gable roof'. Therefore I think it was indeed disguised as a farm. Pretty useless since it was surrounded by classic Deisel hangars..

 

This seems to answer the original question: it was a relatively normal hangar, probably disguised as a farm. I still cannot understand the massive structure though. On the other hand, these 'T-hangars' were big enough for a Fw200.


Rob

 

 

The text mentions Volkel being the only one with more than average concrete construction.

Might be interesting to find out why that was!

A german engineer based there?

A local company making a buck in bad times?

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Bozothenutter Very Obsessed Member

Bozothenutter

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1 hour ago, Rob de Bie said:

 

Hmm, interesting.. I've been to the 'Nationaal Archief' a few times. Sometimes you find nothing, sometimes you hit gold.. 🙂

 

Rob

Just got lucky, the Archive is terrible to get around.

Even more so not knowing the terminology etc.

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Jochen Barett Obsessed Member

Jochen Barett

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1 hour ago, Rob de Bie said:

 

Wow, thanks for that great link, I did not know such a database existed! I think this photo shows the hangar best:

 

https://mapserver.library.wur.nl/wxsservice/flights/343/runs/05/aerialphotos/3031?service=wms&version=1.3.0&request=GetMap&layers=343_05_3031&crs=EPSG:28992&bbox=172373,404845,177348,409831&width=2961&height=2967&srs=EPSG:28992&format=image/png

 

It shows quite clearly that the hangar in question had a 'hip roof' (had to look that up) with an extension to the rear, the extension had a 'gable roof'. Therefore I think it was indeed disguised as a farm. Pretty useless since it was surrounded by classic Deisel hangars..

 

This seems to answer the original question: it was a relatively normal hangar, probably disguised as a farm. I still cannot understand the massive structure though. On the other hand, these 'T-hangars' were big enough for a Fw200, you can't build a hangar of that size with a few wooden beams.


Rob

That pic explains "T-hangar" rather well.

 

Nexto to me not understanding the massive use of concrete with non hardened walls and roof (and the concave upper surface of the beams and massive strangely shaped pillars), the Walmdach and Satteldach may be a "matter of taste". While being impractical for hangars (and gas stations) and useless in trying to camouflage a big airfield they were traditonal German roofs opposed to modern "American" Flachdächern. Do compare: https://www.geschichtsspuren.de/artikel/verkehrsgeschichte/138-tankstellengeschichte.html

 

But I do not know if "taste" was all that important in those days ...

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