Westland Whirlwind in 1/32 - Best Cannons Question

[JohnT]

As I've always had a very soft spot for the Westland Whirlwind and wondered just how it would have made out had there been the time and resources to perfect the Peregrine engines* the Special Hobby 1/32 kit was a long awaited "must have".  It arrived just as we were finishing off a house build so its only this weekend that I've really had a proper inspection of the parts etc and a drool into the box keeping the decals suitably protected.  

 

I had expected the four cannons to be very prominent and straight away a week or so ago I speculated and acquired the resin replacements from CMK as its one of the areas where the eye will be drawn to on any finished Whirlwind in any scale.  Lining up the resin ones against the kit plastic my initial impressions are they are pretty much the same other than the resin ones being a thinner and finer diameter.

 

Ideally I'd reckon that brass ones would be the best option and after looking about on line I see that the Hurricane ones from Master are not a stand in replacement as they are quite different on inspection.  There is a thread on it from some time ago in relation to 1/48 scale builds.

 

Anyone heard if the likes of Master might do a set of brass ones?  Meantime I will need to think of going ahead and working with what I have while leaving myself an option to remove anything I use and replace them with brass ones if should a product ever comes to market.

 

TIA for any info and advice as always

 

* warning thread drift

Ironically the Peregrine was a development of the Kestrel engine which performed admirably and yet the Peregrine didn't.  Nor did the Vulture engine which condemned the ill fated Manchester .  The Vulture came from  attaching four Kestrel/Peregrine cylinder banks to one crankcase and driving a common crankshaft.  Sometimes you just don't get lucky.

[Graham Boak]

Recent research, linked to the planned build of a Whirlwind replica, has shown that the cause of the drop in performance between the prototype flight trials and the service experience was caused by the change from a Rotol propeller to the DH one, which suffered from unacknowledged (at the time) compressibility effects.  The same or related problems were also experienced on other British aircraft of this period (and non-British ones) including the Manchester.  Whereas it would be too much to claim that the Vultures were otherwise trouble free, it does suggest that  RR's claim to have found the solution before cancellation was premature.  What does seem to be common is that blaming the engines was missing the real cause.

[JasonC]

When I did mine in 1/48 I was unable to find a brass set of barrels that matched the Whirlwind references I had. I'd expected that between installations like the Hurri IIc, Typhoon, etc, that something would use the same arrangement, but not that I could find. I find it a little curious that the recoil spring arrangement wasn't standard, but perhaps I was missing something. Best of luck!

 

J.

[brewerjerry]

Hi

     I was planning a scratchbuild of the cannons 

 

 

   link to a nice photo reference page 

 

https://www.destinationsjourney.com/historical-military-photographs/westland-whirlwind/

 

 

 thread drift 

 

 On the performance issue the theory

 

         at the time in 1940/1 ......

 

     the R-R reports show that poor installation at westlands was an issue

     they modified one at R-R to give more power, but the solution arrived to late for the whirlwind in 1941 and the aircraft was restored to standard fit 

 

    in the photos it shows minor external changes 

 

    cheers

        jerry 

Edited August 7, 2021 by brewerjerry

[Graham Boak]

Poor installation at Westlands may well have been an issue at one time, but the production Whirlwinds struggled to get over 20,000ft, whereas the prototype had no problems at all.  This wa s not something that improved with attention by RR.

[alt-92]

With regards to the cannon, weren't those the drum-fed Mk.I / HS.404 earlier versions (considering the limited ammo load)?

 

edit:

Basilisk's build in 1/72 also used Hurri Mk.IIC barrels, perhaps that can serve as help?

 

[brewerjerry]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

Poor installation at Westlands may well have been an issue at one time, but the production Whirlwinds struggled to get over 20,000ft, whereas the prototype had no problems at all.  This wa s not something that improved with attention by RR.

Hi

    From the reports from R-R they did 

    R-R tested P6967 and improved  the performance, the results gained 1,100ft in ceiling height, and 10mph gain in top speed ,  a/c sent to RAE , but changes not acted on and a/c restored to original config

 

  the production whirlwinds thus unfortunately remained with the same poor performance issues 

 

 

 

photo of a/c on forum here  showing the carb intake mod 

 

 

https://www.key.aero/article/skywriters-aeroplane-february-2021

 

   cheers

     jerry 

Edited August 7, 2021 by brewerjerry

[brewerjerry]

Hi

    cannons were drum feed, there are nice photos in tbe page i linked in a thread above

    cheers

        jerry

 

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by brewerjerry

[Graham Boak]

I can only refer you to Matt Bearman's article in The Aviation Historian issue 20.  The problems were not a matter of only 1100 feet on the ceiling.  For the related problems of propeller/compressibility with other British types see issue 35.

 

As a matter of interest, other articles of his included a discussion of wing root fillets in issue 22, the problems of the P-38 and compressibility in issue 23,  and early British investigations into laminar flow in issue 29.    For another subject close to the heart of modellers, Richard Seth Smith tells the story of the Typhoon tail problems in issue 27.

 

For those unfamiliar with The Aviation Historian, it is perhaps the closest current magazine to the late lamented Air Enthusiast Quarterly.  It also has a fairly long series of articles on the British industry in the 50s and 60s. 

 

 

[brewerjerry]

Hi

    Apologies slightly more thread drift, if anyone knows the serial and codes for this.

    I have had no success so far in finding it 

 

  the sharkmouth whirlwind 

 

 

ads/2019/05/Westland-Whirlwind-16-e1558654501107.jpg?ssl=1

Edited August 8, 2021 by brewerjerry
typo

[Antti_K]

On 8/7/2021 at 11:37 PM, brewerjerry said:

Hi

    cannons were drum feed, there are nice photos in tbe page i linked in a thread above

    cheers

        jerry

 

 

 

 

Two well known photos, but never seen them in high quality. Thank you for sharing them🙂

 

These photos reveal also a problem with the SH kit: the wing upper side is far too thin (or flat) and therefore the thickest point of the wing is located far too rear. Also the fillet is missing. I've already started remedial work with plastic strips and Milliput. I think they should have done a better work.

 

Cheers,

Antti