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800 Nas Fairey Fulmar "6P" Operation EF


Syde_Burns
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Answers on a postcard, please! Only currently have '6A' as a contender for Op EF which was N4075. If anyone has any further info, I'd be glad to add it to our amends for the book!

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Furious deployed 6 Fulmars for EF. The Admiralty documents I've seen list 4 that returned (A, C, F, L) and two that didn't: X8624 and N4029. The individual aircraft letters are not recorded in the Admiralty documents for these two aircraft.  Given the images above, I assume that these were 6P and 6R. L is identified as X8572 in a Combat Report. So that probably gives us:

 

6A: N4075

6C:

6F:

6L: X8572 (from Combat Report)

6P: X8624 or N4029

6B: X8624 or N4029

 

N4029 was seen to F/L in the sea, X8624 was presumed S/D.

 

The codes are black (similar to 803 Squadron on Eagle).

Edited by iang
Edited for errors
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On 8/6/2021 at 7:06 PM, Syde_Burns said:

The other Fulmar in the movie "6B" or "6R" seems to have a darker spinner

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If you look at the next video frame, this one appears to be '6B'.

It seems that its codes are thinly edged in white (unlike '6P').

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Checking serials in Sturtivant, "Fleet Air Arm Aircraft 1939 - 1945":

  • X8624 and N4029 confirmed as Cat. Z on 30.7.41, although N4029 is reported as F/L in sea, not X8624
  • X8572 confirmed listed as 'L' with 800 Sqn.
  • N4075 confirmed 800 Sqn. '6A' from 19.5.41 until 7.41
  • N4039 listed as 'P' with 800 Sqn at Lee on Solent 10.6.41
  • N4028 with 800 Sqn. 5.41 - 7.41
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Yes, my mistake - I was doing several things at once. The Admiralty documents give the fates of X8624 and N4029 as you list, Claudio.  I've just edited my post to correct this error (and 6R => 6B).

 

I don't think N4039:P was a Petsamo Fulmar. It has service history after Petsamo and the only two unknown 800 Squadron survivors are C and F (unless N4039 was recoded).

Edited by iang
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6 hours ago, iang said:

I don't think N4039:P was a Petsamo Fulmar. It has service history after Petsamo and the only two unknown 800 Squadron survivors are C and F (unless N4039 was recoded).

Agreed. I was just thinking that film footage for Petsamo showing '6P' does not necessarily mean '6P' was there.

Given A, C, F and L, for the two lost Fulmars to fill the letter sequence we might have a choice of B, G, H, K, M... Purely academic: as the 6 aircraft would be picked out on the basis of serviceability, sequence order does not tell anything. 

One question: when you say 6 Fulmars, do you mean that was the number sent to cover the attck force, or did 800 Sqn embark just 6 Fulmars on Furious (the carrier had in addition the 4 Sea Hurricanes of 880A Sqn.)?

 

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22 minutes ago, ClaudioN said:

Agreed. I was just thinking that film footage for Petsamo showing '6P' does not necessarily mean '6P' was there.

Given A, C, F and L, for the two lost Fulmars to fill the letter sequence we might have a choice of B, G, H, K, M... Purely academic: as the 6 aircraft would be picked out on the basis of serviceability, sequence order does not tell anything. 

One question: when you say 6 Fulmars, do you mean that was the number sent to cover the attck force, or did 800 Sqn embark just 6 Fulmars on Furious (the carrier had in addition the 4 Sea Hurricanes of 880A Sqn.)?

 

According to the Admiralty reports, Furious embarked 4 SH, 6 Fulmar, 9 Swordfish, 9 Albacore. Re your point about code sequences, for the Swordfish and Albacore the 9 aircraft from each of 812 and 817 Squadrons were coded A=>M. Apparently, the fighters did not conform. Perhaps because the 4 SH were squeezed in at the expense of 3 Fulmar and the squadron chose the best 6 serviceable aircraft from 9?

Edited by iang
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13 hours ago, Lee Howard said:

Ian

 

Do you have a copy of the Combat Report that you could share?

 

Rgds

 

Lee

 

Lee,  here you are:

 

resized_1baa2654-6316-436b-95d3-5ad99806

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HTH,

Ian

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

This film seems to be shot aboard HMS Victorious, not Furious. The Fulmars taking off would belong to 809 Sqn., not 800.

 

From ADM 199/447: No. 800 NAS Fulmars participating:

 

800-Sqn.-Fulmars.jpg

 

Bengt

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37 minutes ago, Bengt said:

This film seems to be shot aboard HMS Victorious, not Furious. The Fulmars taking off would belong to 809 Sqn., not 800.

 

Bengt

You are right. My attention was focused on the Fulmar, but the deck layout is clearly Victorious, not Furious.

 

Another detail I missed in the film: the aircraft landing on Victorious at 2:47 does not seem to have an undernose radiator. Sea Hurricanes of 880A Flight are known to have landed on Victorious during the operation and I would suggest that the aircraft is in fact a Sea Hurricane.

Comparison with the next aircraft landing around 2:51, in this case certainly a Fulmar, evidences that the former aircraft has a shorter wingspan.

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8 hours ago, Bengt said:

From ADM 199/447: No. 800 NAS Fulmars participating:

 

800-Sqn.-Fulmars.jpg

 

Bengt

Another minor but interesting discrepancy here: the combat report concerning Fulmar X8572:L was written by Sub-Lt. P. N. Ward, RNVR. The list you provide (thank you!) associates aircraft 'L' with Mid. J. M. Lucas, RNVR. The TAG is the same, L/A W. J. Crone.

I might assume the squadron had more than six pilots (possibly eight, or seven) aboard Furious?

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