Ray_W Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 Continuing my Bulgarian theme, we now jump further back in time to 1937 and opt for the PZL P.24B finished in His Majesty's Air Army (VNVV) colours with roundels based on the Bulgarian Tsarist Coat of Arms. I am using the Mirage Hobby kit, conveniently available in the Bulgarian markings. Biggest decision on this kit is what colour to finish it in. I've decided to go with Dénes Bernád recommendations from his MMP title "Bulgarian Fighter Colours 1919-1948: Vol. 1" with Polish Khaki and Light Blue rather than the green as portrayed on the box art. Now Polish Khaki, for the uninitiated and I was one before selecting this subject, is one of those wonderful colours worthy of pages of text and discussion on any media source about accuracy, actual colour, fading and variation and formula changes. I have had a look at ipmsstockholm.org, a few threads on Hyperscale, ww2aircraft.net, Fine Scale Modeller, and the Hataka blog. Much research has been done in trying to match the colours to Federal Standard equivalent and these are often referred to. Am I confused? I have decided it will be a toss up between FS 34088 (Bernád) and FS 30118 (PZL 11C discovery under the nameplate during restoration). The latter often referred to as the lighter/faded khaki. I also have AK's Real Color RC024 "Olive Drab Faded" which seems a nice each way bet. AK's FS 30118 will arrive this week and the experiments can start. For the underside, I think it is a little more simple, some adjustment and fading of RLM 65 will do the trick. Maybe a touch of light grey or opt for RLM 76. We'll see. I have posted the colours (recognising the vagaries looking at these on digital media) using that wonderful comparative resource from Mr Waligorski. Any input from BM members on latest research or alternative resources is most welcome. The kit - not a large parts count but is does appear it will build into a fine model. I like the rendition of the corrugated skinning although the panel lines are a little heavy. Not enough to worry me and I plan to build as is. Engine detail is a little soft. I think I can jazz it up enough to avoid buying a resin replacement. Cockpit looks like it will come up very nice indeed. Some white metal parts are provided. Radiators, fairings and exhaust manifold are welcome. Those MG's (Bulgarian aircraft were fitted with 7.9 mm MG's) will go into the spares probably to remain there for the remainder of my life unless I come up with a diorama where I need some giant corkscrews. I can substitute these with some telescoping micro-bore brass tube or use the plastic rendition supplied. Some PE and the decals: Most reviews complain about the decals - brittle red stripings and difficulties with the complex wheel spat shape. I see some more experimentation coming up, possibly improving the decals with a coat of Microscale Liquid Decal Film. One cheat's way out is to not use the wheel spats which clogged with mud, snow and ice and were usually removed. I do like the look of the P.24B sans spats, very purposeful and usually the mode where the MG's are mounted. I plan to paint the rudder stripes. With spats, no MG's. Canopy roof in place. Forward canopy side panel usually removed for ventilation following a pilot gassing incident. May or may not be in this image. Typical later set up. No spats, With MG's. Some with canopy removed and canopy roof with rear side panel still in place. Another image: Spats, No MG's. No canopy roof. The eagle-eyed amongst you will have spotted that the fin number was usually considerably smaller that the fuselage number. The Mirage Hobby decal sheet has all numbers at the same height at 9.5 mm. I will need to see what I can modify to produce the small fin numbers. So another GB ready to go. Looking forward to the kick-off next weekend. You can tell some parts are already off the sprue. Couldn't wait to dry-fit a few major components. Ray 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnl42 Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 This will be interesting to watch! I have that kit in the stash with the original resin parts. Those white metal exhausts do look good. I've definitely had problems with Mirage's decals. Hopefully I remember to scan them before use as I would have the opportunity to print my own copies or cut masks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_W Posted August 2, 2021 Author Share Posted August 2, 2021 26 minutes ago, dnl42 said: This will be interesting to watch! I hope I can add some value for your build. I would have no hesitancy in painting the stripes other than they have ultra fine tails. It will be difficult to maintain that very thin line even putting down a red base first (the usual way) then masking to spray to the edge. Possibly I could use bare metal foil as the mask. The decals do look good on the sheet. The hard part is you need to decide at the start of the painting stage to go decals or not. There does appear to be spares. A duplication of the wheel spat decals and a difference in the side stripes. I'll make up and complete a wheel spat and use it as a test during the build. Then make a decision to press on or mask and paint the red. Of course, the big advantage of painting all the red is then there is no issue matching red decals to a red painted cowling. Ray 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toryu Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 This will be a fascinating build to follow. Good luck! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelling minion Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 This is going to be great. I like the PZL.11 and 24 series of fighters and they fit the bill for this GB perfectly. This will make a fine addition to your Bulgarian aircraft collection Ray, and a very colourful one too. Very much looking forward to seeing this one come together mate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 Welcome aboard Ray… looking forward to this one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffB Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 Welcome Ray with a beautiful little aircraft. I can see the appeal of those spats! Enjoy your build. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Law Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 This is great Ray. I will get a chance to see how it goes together before I start. I will start with the Storch first once I get a couple of Beaufighters done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_W Posted August 8, 2021 Author Share Posted August 8, 2021 Into it at last and a pleasurable time at the bench working through my usual dry-fit regime. I not only want a good fitting aircraft, and again eliminate/minimise the need for any filling, but also want to paint and add the struts following the painting stage. I need a robust dry-fit model to "play" with and check what is happening with things like those struts. This has been achieved. The kit is not too bad. It has somewhat of a limited run feel with a little flash that is easily cleaned up. There is the need to square gluing edges so using the vacuform technique of 600 grit paper on a sheet of glass (in my case the stove top) I did so with the fuselage, cowling, wheel spats and wing halves after removing any location pins. Not much material needs to be removed just square and straighten. I added some location tabs to the fuselage. These will help with alignment, particularly during this dry-fit stage. The main wing location is a little loose so I checked what needed to happen and ensured its correct location by closing up the gap. To centre the wing required, in my case, a little more material on one side. It is so good to get this right now as it will be a balancing act later on. The top wing now clips in place more Tamiya like. A simple clamp will hold during gluing. One advantage of the above is that I now have no gap on the underside wing root. I'll fill that forward seam with some Milliput Fine before assembling the wing/fuselage. Everything else has been parts clean up and preparation like drilling out and thinning the exhaust stack and cowling. So all is ready. It is time to do the usual stuff and launch into the cockpit and detail the motor. Next images should be more interesting. Ray. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Law Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 Great report Ray. This is very helpful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelling minion Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 Off to a very nice start Ray, looks like the top wing is now a very good fit indeed which will make your life easier for painting later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnl42 Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 Excellent work on this. You do have the best technique for minimizing gaps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 Great work, on an to me unknown plane! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_W Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 Seems slow progress. Facts are not much bench time and then some research and fiddly work needed on a few details. I jazzed up the engine a little replacing the push rod housings with 0.5 mm styrene rod. The kit parts are a little clunky. Added a few other details and ignition wiring. The cylinder finning is a little shallow but should paint up quite nicely. I turned my attention to the rear. Drilled out the cylinder head inlet and exhaust ports and added some inlet tubing from brass rod. Note the engine rear alignment hole above. The kit has the mating alignment pin at 6 O'Clock. Build it this way and the cylinder head alignment will be incorrect based on the information from my references. Unfortunately, I have not found a clear image of the cylinder banks in a Bulgarian aircraft. There are images for a Turkish aircraft showing the cylinders with a single forward bank cylinder at 6, not 12 O'Clock . The forward top cylinders should form a vee at 12 O'Clock. Not like so: You need to cut off the pin and rotate the engine 180 degrees. Doing it this way also better matches the exhaust manifold. Although I am still not happy. The exhaust port piping should go long, short, long, short and so forth and then start with the opposite either a long or short on the next manifold. It should not finish with two shorts at both ends like so: I played around with this for some time, even contemplated making up new manifold assemblies, my final plan being to modify what I have - cut off all the exhaust pipes and drill and replace and generally improve the look of the manifold. I will do this once the fuselage halves are zipped up so I can check the position is correct. Jumped into the cockpit and used some of the PE and added some detail like brake levers and an improved seat height handle. If you're building this kit you will note some changes. Usually a preference for where I like PE and where not. The PE foot boards seem too wide. I left them as is because they do hide the large mounts for the location pins for the flooring assembly. I removed the similar mounts for the seat front cross-member (very visible even in this tiny cockpit) and added some framing. Scratch built some engine controls. I decided not to use Mirage's rendition of the cockpit rear bulkhead replacing it with some thin card. You can see in the above fuselage image the clearance holes cut in the bulkhead. I will build up a larger head rest cushion from Milliput and now with a revised harness slot more in keeping with what I see in the Bulgarian aircraft images. Nothing glued as yet. Just about ready to paint up the engine and cockpit. Ray 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffB Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 14 minutes ago, Ray_W said: Seems slow progress. On the contrary Ray, it seems like you've done a lot of beautifully detailed work 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franz75 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 I'm happy that you had chosen this kit, and you did very nice work so far. I know that Mirage isn't the easiest kit, and it has some issues. I know I did one. Regarding your concern about the paint that PZL has used, I can tell you it is a touchy subject amongst polish model builders. But PZL indeed used the same color for domestic and import planes. Therefore, it "Polish Khaki light." The best one is producing and, to be considered most accurate, is made by Hataka. It will be close to FS 30118 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelling minion Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 Very nice detailing and scratchbuilding Ray, the engine is looking much better and the cockpit details are very good indeed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_W Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 1 hour ago, CliffB said: On the contrary Ray, it seems like you've done a lot of beautifully detailed work Thanks Cliff and another very enjoyable build. 1 hour ago, Franz75 said: The best one is producing and, to be considered most accurate, is made by Hataka. Thanks Franz for the suggestion. I found the AK Real Colors RC085 FS 30118 too tan for my liking. Their RC024 Faded Olive Drab does appear close and with a little playing around I think I could get it closer. However, in the end I just bit the bullet and ordered the Hataka Orange Line Polish Air Force set you have also recommended. Should arrive this week. I assumed the Polish research should be good. I knew they were lacquers, my preferred, the clincher being able to thin with Mr Color Thinners. I am very interested in what is the current Polish thinking on interior colours. Mirage call up all silver. I was thinking of doing the blue-grey sidewalls and aluminium features. I noticed in the Bulgarian cockpit shot the v-shaped cross member that attaches under the instrument panel seems to be finished in the exterior colour or black. Any thoughts on interior colours? Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_W Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 20 minutes ago, modelling minion said: Very nice detailing and scratchbuilding Ray, the engine is looking much better and the cockpit details are very good indeed. Thanks Craig, I am certainly enjoying the subject change. Hopefully get time tomorrow to get some paint in place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franz75 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Ray_W said: I am very interested in what is the current Polish thinking on interior colours. Mirage call up all silver. I was thinking of doing the blue-grey sidewalls and aluminium features. I noticed in the Bulgarian cockpit shot the v-shaped cross member that attaches under the instrument panel seems to be finished in the exterior colour or black. Any thoughts on interior colours? Ray Ray Most interiors have been silver-painted, but in some cases, PZL used the blue for the Bulgarian market. According to my research, the closer on to this is Tamyia XF 18. It is a mess due to the lack of records from the pre-war period. But either way will be acceptable. It might help Edited August 16, 2021 by Franz75 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_W Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, Franz75 said: It might help Thanks Franz, very useful. I had read somewhere that the interior blue was close to WW2 US Navy Intermediate Blue which is close to your XF-18 suggestion. My plan is to use Gunze H56. Ray Edited August 17, 2021 by Ray_W Sent too early Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toryu Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Excellent work on the internal detail Ray! That's a modelling style that I prefer myself - compare every part with pictures of the original and improve with aftermarket stuff and own material. Nevermind the time it takes, your quality work deserves it. Great building thread! Cheers, Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_W Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Toryu said: That's a modelling style that I prefer myself - compare every part with pictures of the original and improve with aftermarket stuff and own material. And the final result is usually much more satisfying. I am currently adding some extra stringers and ribs in places that are visible. I'll put some more stringers ahead of the instrument panel bulkhead. Then the invariable tidy and sanding to blend in. One reason I am adding these is that Mirage provide two PE angled side panels or skirts that go either side of the cockpit seat. They do not provide a colour call out so I did not know if they were canvas or aluminium. Marked here with the stars: A confusing part. I was planning to leave them out, hence the extra sidewall detail, and then I found an image in Kagero's No.7 Monograph on the P.24 series showing a fuselage under construction and they do look like angled thin aluminium pieces added to the sidewall so looks like they have gained a reprieve and I will mount them in place. I'll still finish the extra fuselage detail. As mentioned in my earlier post I replaced the head rest cushion. The kit comes with a small head rest and a semi-circular plate with harness slots that mounts below the head rest. I have seen a period image with this small plate. In the following image the kit parts are on the left and my scratch parts on the right. The tear in the kit piece is after gluing it in place to one fuselage half and then deciding to remove it. The Bulgarian head rests look more like this, but with two central grooves. There is quite a large opening for the harness to go through . Ray 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelling minion Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Neat work Ray. The stringers in the fuselage are very good and your head rest looks much closer to the one in the picture of the Bulgarian aircraft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_W Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, modelling minion said: The stringers in the fuselage are very good and your head rest looks much closer to the one in the picture of the Bulgarian aircraft. Thanks Craig. The photo is of, I expect, a PZL test aircraft that illustrates the head rest type you also see in the Bulgarian aircraft. Ray 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now