(Another) IDF M1.

[Bullbasket]

3 hours ago, Jasper dog said:

Hi John, going back to your previous comment; 

I've the same kit knocking around somewhere so if you want or need any comparisons,  sprue pics, etc just let me know.

 

Atb

Darryl 

Thanks for the offer Darryl. Just tell me one thing if you would please. Does your kit contain a "J" sprue, and is it marked for an M-51? Weirdly, my box contains two sprues marked "J".

 

John.

[fatfingers]

2 hours ago, Bullbasket said:

Thanks for the offer Darryl. Just tell me one thing if you would please. Does your kit contain a "J" sprue, and is it marked for an M-51? Weirdly, my box contains two sprues marked "J".

 

John.

Afternoon John,

 

Saw your post and my curiosity got the better of me. Had a look in my Op Cobra M4AA1 kit and there is a J sprue but its no mention of M51 on it. Instructions say its not for use and here's a pic of it...

 

 

Hope this helps and give us a shout if you'd like a clearer pic 👍

 

Regards,

 

Steve

[Bullbasket]

4 minutes ago, fatfingers said:

Saw your post and my curiosity got the better of me. Had a look in my Op Cobra M4AA1 kit and there is a J sprue but its no mention of M51 on it. Instructions say its not for use and here's a pic of it...

Hi Steve. Yes, that's the second sprue in my kit marked as "J". It contains the very nice exhaust deflector. The other one contains many of the parts for HVVS Shermans, so not needed in this build. I know that Dragon do this a lot, (ie; pick and mix) but the fact that there was no aluminium barrel in the box set off alarm bells.

 

John.

[fatfingers]

@Bullbasket Certainly sounds like the original owner of the kit has snaffled the alu barrel and slung in another 'J' sprue from somewhere! Great work on the build and I'm enjoying watching this one come together 👍

 

Regards,

 

Steve

[Jasper dog]

9 hours ago, Bullbasket said:

Thanks for the offer Darryl. Just tell me one thing if you would please. Does your kit contain a "J" sprue, and is it marked for an M-51? Weirdly, my box contains two sprues marked "J".

 

John.

 

6 hours ago, fatfingers said:

Afternoon John,

 

Saw your post and my curiosity got the better of me. Had a look in my Op Cobra M4AA1 kit and there is a J sprue but its no mention of M51 on it. Instructions say its not for use and here's a pic of it...

 

 

 

Hope this helps and give us a shout if you'd like a clearer pic 👍

 

Regards,

 

Steve

Well chaps just hang on a minute if you will.....

I've two J sprues, and an Aluminium barrel etc. One of the J sprues is marked for the M51....

 

This is the one for the M51

 

And this is the smaller J sprue like Steve posted....

 

I dont think its unusual for Dragon to have different sprues with the same letter judging by how they mix and match sprues...

 

How this helps!

Darryl 

[fatfingers]

37 minutes ago, Jasper dog said:

 

Well chaps just hang on a minute if you will.....

I've two J sprues, and an Aluminium barrel etc. One of the J sprues is marked for the M51....

 

This is the one for the M51

 

And this is the smaller J sprue like Steve posted....

 

I dont think its unusual for Dragon to have different sprues with the same letter judging by how they mix and match sprues...

 

How this helps!

Darryl 

Aye up Darryl.

 

I'm going to go have another rummage in mine to see if i've got the other J sprue and will report back! 😀

 

Regards,

 

Steve

[Mike Mcellaney]

On 9/2/2021 at 4:22 PM, Bullbasket said:

Just a small update.

Last job at the front was to add the two hatches. I know that the photo depicts the tank with them open, but that would mean adding some rudimentary interior. So no, they're going to be closed. It also means that I don't have to find any crew figures to fill the voids. There is a tab on each hatch which somebody said that they shouldn't be there as they were only added once they became museum pieces, and these tabs were so that the hatches could be padlocked shut. Well, that's not strictly true, as I have at least one photo of an in service M1 with one of these tabs attached. Granted, it doesn't appear to be the norm, but as they say, never say never.

 

So that said, I removed the moulded on tabs and will replace them with thin card strips, as the tank that I'm modelling clearly shows them (or one of them) in the photo. I replaced the grab handles with ones made from .33 nickel silver wire.

The periscope bases are way too thick, because if used as they are, they stick up above the surface of the hatch by about 1mm. They should be flush (or near enough). So some rubbing on a coarse sanding stick, reduced the thickness sufficiently before gluing them in place. On the left, as supplied by Dragon. On the right, after reducing the thickness.

 

I've run out of Shapeways periscope/brush guards, so I resorted to slightly thinning the kit's offerings, before gluing them in place also.

 

Moving to the back of the hull;

The two grousers vents included in the kit are to me, the wrong shape. When I sat them in position, they stuck up like bat's ears. Fortunately, I had a spare pair from a Tamiya M4 kit, and these worked much better. These vents should appear horizontal when in place. Dragon's ones certainly didn't. Before I fitted them in place, I drilled out the bolt head on the top, glued a length of stretched sprue in place, and then added a punched out bolt head on the top. Finally, before gluing them in place, I added etched mesh to the fronts, courtesy of an Eduard M4 set.

 

That's it for now. Time to do some work on the Israeli A/C.

Stay safe.

 

John.

John if you are going to quote me on something I said in another posting please quote me correctly, I am fully aware that the M1 Sherman had the hasp and staple fittings on them and at no point in the post did I say the M1 Sherman did not have them fitted ( I have more than just one photos showing this) what I was referring to was a M1 Super Sherman two different tanks just so you don't get confused basically the M1 Sherman has VVSS suspension and the M1 Super Sherman has HVSS suspension,  the hasp and staples were already fitted to some of the M1 Sherman's when the were delivered from France so its not an IDF fitting. I have not seen a photo showing one M1 Super Sherman fitted with a Hasp and Staple except in Preserved or on Museum photos, so if you have any showing this fitted to a M1 Super Sherman please share  for as you know I always say Never say Never with the IDF  

 

The posting I put what you are referring to is this one in the cold war section The Pearls of Modelling IDF M1 Super Sherman's and M51 Sherman's, reference photos, aftermarket items and kit bashing

This will allow anyone interested to read the full version of what I posted 

 

[Bullbasket]

39 minutes ago, Mike Mcellaney said:

just so you don't get confused basically the M1 Sherman has VVSS suspension and the M1 Super Sherman has HVSS suspension,

Thank you, but I was aware of the difference. I get my info from an expert, Dr. Robert Manasherob.

[Mike Mcellaney]

On 9/12/2021 at 1:23 PM, Bullbasket said:

Thank you, but I was aware of the difference. I get my info from an expert, Dr. Robert Manasherob.

 

Hi John

 

Thanks for confirming you are aware of the differences between the M1 Sherman and the M1 Super Sherman, I thought maybe you were not to sure as the quote you used from one of my posts was for a M1 Super Sherman not a M1 Sherman.

 

For those who are not familiar with IDF Sherman designations  the M1 Sherman and I will use the American designation is a M4A1 cast hull with large hatches, a T23 Turret and a 76mm main gun and VVSS suspension, the M1 Super Sherman M4A1E8 , is a M4A1 cast hull with large hatches, a T23 Turret, 76mm main gun and HVSS suspension

 

This is the quote plus some you added by yourself , now please remember I wrote this regarding a M1 Super Sherman not a M1 Sherman now why you would quote this in a M1 Sherman build I can quite figure out as it does not have any relevance to what you are building. The bolder section is what you added to what I had written

 

"There is a tab on each hatch which somebody said that they shouldn't be there as they were only added once they became museum pieces, and these tabs were so that the hatches could be padlocked shut. Well, that's not strictly true, as I have at least one photo of an in service M1 with one of these tabs attached. Granted, it doesn't appear to be the norm, but as they say, never say never."

 

 

John you also said you get your information from an expert Dr Robert Manasherob

Well I have gone through the book, Lioness & Lion of the line Volume 14 by Dr Robert Manasherob M1 Super Sherman and noted the following 

 

1. In the Lioness & Lion of the line Volume 14 by Dr Robert Manasherob M1 Super Sherman every photo that is published of a in service M1 Super Sherman  around 80 of them, not one shows and hasp and staple on any of the hatches so Dr Robert Manasherob going by the photos he used confirms what I said

 

2. In the Lioness & Lion of the line Volume 14 by Dr Robert Manasherob M1 Super Sherman the only photos published that show the hasp and staple securing the hatches are on preserved tanks so Dr Robert Manasherob again going by the photos he used confirms what I said

 

3. In Tom Gannon's book Israeli Sherman's second addition on page 149 photo 248 shows the two extra handles as I pointed out in my original post and I quote "There are two extra grab handles, also most likely for locking down the hatches in storage"

 

4. John surely you must have Lioness & Lion of the line Volume 12 by Dr Robert Manasherob M1 Sherman if so you would have around 20 photos showing hasp and staples fitted to the hatches of M1 Sherman's, these are a French fitting not a IDF fitting and were on a fair number of the M1 Sherman's delivered to the IDF just before the 1956 war, and I would say Tom Gannon has got it right and they were used by the French to secure the tank when in storage, and as the IDF did not have the option but to use them to defend there country, now I have not seen a photo to confirm this but I would think at the first opportunity part or all of the fittings would be removed as it would obviously be a hazard to the crews safety

 

John as I finish this I still can't figure out why you would use what I had write about a M1 Super Sherman in you build of a M1 Sherman. To someone new to IDF Sherman's they could very easily get confused and think you are also saying the M1 Super Sherman had the hasp and staples fitted as well and I had posted wrong information on the subject.

 

 

[Bullbasket]

Well, I got part way through all of that rambling and nearly nodded of. You've already demonstrated that you are confrontational, and I'm not going to rise to it. I'll just say this. You seem to have lost sight of the fact that this is a hobby, not life or death. If I make mistakes, so be it, I'll live with it. So you can get on with just building models or carry on rambling. Your choice. If it's the latter, I'll just block your posts.

 

 

[Longbow]

Superb detailing on this one, John !!

Can't wait to see a coat of paint on her.

 

Just catching up on a few builds

 

 

 

 

[Mike]

Guys - I'm going to need everyone to calm down and back away from this.  A totally unnecessary spat about hasps & staples, or whatever the hell it's actually about. We're grown-ups, let's act like them.

[Bullbasket]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

Guys - I'm going to need everyone to calm down and back away from this.  A totally unnecessary spat about hasps & staples, or whatever the hell it's actually about. We're grown-ups, let's act like them.

Mike, reverse gear already engaged. I've said all I am going to on this and if there is anymore, then the "ignore" button will be applied.

Now, I'd like my thread back please.

Nothing much to report on this build, as I've been spending a lot (maybe too much) time in the A/C. Oh, plus a little job in the garden.....building a barn.

And @Longbow, thanks for your comments Lee.

Now, where did I leave that hammer?

 

John.