Anyone know the wing roundel sizes for Short Sunderland?

[Vingtor]

Thinking about 1943-1945 period. Some sources say 112" diameter, but I think that looks a bit too large. Looking at the Special Hobby instructions, the roundels seems to be 98", which I think are too small.

 

Nils

[alt-92]

I'd guess a similar formula as mentioned by Edgar Brooks applies here.

But that's based on looking at A-20/Havoc sizes.

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Camouflage-Markings/Douglas-Boston-Havoc/Douglas-Boston-and-Havoc-10-19-960

 

 

[PhantomBigStu]

100 inch

[rossm]

Paul Lucas in an article on Sunderland III colours in Model Aircraft Monthly January 2009 gives 112" but Modeldecal set 103 gives 100". The Kits-World set I used for my Sunderland I had 100" roundels as did the Italeri kit. so 100" looks like the majority verdict.

 

 

[Vingtor]

I have the Lucas article, and that is where my information on 112" comes from. At least Paul Lucas refers to official documents. Not sure which referenced the kit and decals manufacturers use, though.

[593jones]

If it helps, the Modeldecal sheet no. 103, British Roundels Large Types, gives 100" for the Sunderland.

[rossm]

According to Ian Huntley in SAM the roundel size was specified as at least one inch away from leading edge or slats and one inch from the aileron positioned at 1/3rd total span from the aircraft centreline. This gave different sizes for every type of aircraft. The only attempt at listing the sizes that I have seen was by Modeldecal (later Xtradecal) who were the gold standard for RAF roundels, serials and codes for many years. How they generated the list I don't know.

 

Paul Lucas in Britain Alone has a Sunderland I profile with a caption stating 84" upperwing roundels just to muddy the waters.

 

I can only suggest making a dummy 112" paper disc and seeing where it fits on a plan or model. I'll go and get my Sunderland from the loft later and see how that looks.

[Etiennedup]

I go with Ian Huntley.......................

 

 

[Max Headroom]

7 minutes ago, Etiennedup said:

I go with Ian Huntley.......................

 

 

Is it me or doe the Red centre look a tad oversize? It looks more than 50% of the diameter and may be a repaint of a pre war red/white/blue roundel?

Off topic but there are other things going on there……

Trevor

[Etiennedup]

Agreed Trevor............the red is not standard.

[rossm]

Just looked at my (nearly) finished Mk.I and the 100" roundels are definitely too small compared with the photo above so 112" seems possible. The only way I know to get that is to use a 75" one from a 1/48 sheet like https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X48028

 

Bother! I've already satin varnished mine so I'm not sure I can correct it.

[LDSModeller]

19 hours ago, Vingtor said:

Thinking about 1943-1945 period. Some sources say 112" diameter, but I think that looks a bit too large. Looking at the Special Hobby instructions, the roundels seems to be 98", which I think are too small.

 

Nils

Hi Nils

 

Found this in the WWII RAF Colours and Markings

 

If I read the above correctly, and taking the above and measure the distance on a Sunderland Mk III wing, in photo

below I get 10.7 Feet between Leading Edge and Aileron Leading Edge across Roundel, then the outer edge of

Roundel should be 10 Feet (120 Inches)

(Photo used for illustration purposes only)

Welcome anyone to measure and see what they get

 

 

12 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

Off topic but there are other things going on there……

Trevor

 

Hi Trevor,

 

The Sunderland in the photo, is  Sunderland Mk I L5802 (SE-F) being overhauled prior to disembarking to West Africa

to join up with 95 Squadron

 

Regards

 

Alan

[malpaso]

11 minutes ago, LDSModeller said:

 

(Photo used for illustration purposes only)

Welcome anyone to measure and see what they get

Just by eye there's significantly more than 1inch between the roundels and either the ailerons or leading edge in that photo!  More like quarter to third of blue band diameter.  The roundels has encroached into the white where brought round to 60 degrees from datum (if they were using a protractor when setting out the camo!)

[Vingtor]

16 hours ago, rossm said:

I can only suggest making a dummy 112" paper disc and seeing where it fits on a plan or model. I'll go and get my Sunderland from the loft later and see how that looks.

 

The purpose for my request is a set of plan views (and profiles) that I am doing, so testing various roundel sizes is quite easy. Here are two drawings with 112" roundels.

There is also an issue about the roundels' positions, that seem to vary slightly.