Petlyakov Pe-2***FINISHED***

[PeterB]

I guess to most model aircraft enthusiasts here in the West,  the Il-2 and the Pe-2 are about the best known Soviet WWII ground attack aircraft. Airfix released kits of  both many years ago, but I never bought the Pe-2 until they re-released it in 2010, and in September of that year I bought this for £7.99.

Hopefully I can get it built before I start on my TSR 2 project in a couple of weeks - it will probably take longer to paint it and put the decs on than the actual assembly! It is probably not very accurate but somewhat better than their Il-2 I hope.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited July 27, 2021 by PeterB

[Learstang]

Now there are two kits I wish Airfix would issue new-mould versions of - the Pe-2 and Il-2 (and why not the Yak-9 whilst we're at it). I don't believe the Airfix Pe-2 kit will win any prizes for accuracy, but it is immeasurably more accurate than the 'Il-2', which is rubbish. Just looking at the parts on the sprue it does at least resemble a Pe-2. I can't tell from the photograph what Airfix would have you paint it, but if the Pe-2 is pre-late 1943, it should be painted in green/black over blue, and if post-late 1943, it should be dark grey, tan, and green over blue. Good luck!

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

[PeterB]

Thanks Jason,

 

According to Airfix it is either Russian in Green over blue or Czech in all over grey, but I saw a nice build a while back and bought a set of Colourcoats Green/Brown/Grey/Blue for it.

 

Pete

[Learstang]

You're welcome! Is that brown a dark, medium or light brown? Despite the name, the Soviet 'Light Brown' colour was really a tan colour, with perhaps just a bit of grey in it. The 'Dark Grey' should be something like an EDSG, but without any blue in it. The green should have an olive tint, but nowhere near as olive as US Olive Drab - I use Testors Model Master Interior Green for my Soviet Green. The blue was similar to RLM 65, although perhaps a bit lighter. The overall green colour over blue was used only early in the war, in 1941, and also post-war.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Learstang
Additional comment added.

[Graham Boak]

I've seen conflicting comments on the Soviet "Light Brown", but it certainly looks light in many views (light to very light).  My favourite description is "milky coffee" - now just how strong do you like your coffee?  However tan, to me, implies something of an orange tinge which I don't think is correct.

[PeterB]

Hi guys,

 

The paints I am thinking of using are AMT7 Blue as on my La-5FN in "Less than a Tenner" GB, AMT4 Green which is a dark olive colour, AMT11 Dark Grey which is almost black so I may have to lighten it, and the brown used on the build I saw was, rightly or wrongly one Colourcoats call Yellow-Grey, and which I used on my Egyptian Mig-17 build in the "Africa" GB.

 

Pete

[Learstang]

AMT-12 (not AMT-11) Dark Grey when newly painted was almost black, but quickly faded to a dark grey. For what it's worth I use Testors Model Master Gunship Gray for my AMT-12 (I believe the Pe-2 would have used the metal aircraft equivalent of AMT-12 - 'AMT-12 Dark Grey' was for composite or wooden aircraft; the paint colours were basically the same - the same goes for AMT-4 Green, AMT-7 Blue, and AMT-1 Light Brown). Dark olive doesn't sound quite right for the Soviet Green. 'Yellow-Grey' actually sounds about right for the 'Light Brown'. Although Graham is correct that the Soviet Light Brown did not have an orange tinge, the 'Light Brown' used on metal aircraft (A-21M, I believe it was designated), had a solvent or base that became yellow the older the paint was (it was transparent when new). I'll look for your Egyptian MiG-17 to see what that colour you used looks like.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

Edited July 27, 2021 by Learstang
Clarification.

[Learstang]

I just had a look at your MiG-17, and that 'tan' colour is not bad, but a bit too yellowish. AMT-1/A-21M is a bit of a tricky colour, especially as it seemed to change in colour as it aged, at least with A-21M, becoming more yellow. I've used both Testors Model Master Israeli Armor Sand/Gray and Afrika Dunkelgrau '42 for this colour, but good luck finding these paints now. If you're familiar with Massimo Tessitori's excellent site on VVS aircraft, I would look on there to see some good renditions of the Soviet 'Light Brown' colour.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

[PeterB]

Thanks Jason,

 

I did of course mean AMT12 - I thought it too dark on my La-5FN so I used Panzer Grey instead. I have some Israeli Tank "sand grey" and ditto Afrika Corps "Sand Grey" somewhere which I might dig out. It is not going to perfect, but then neither is the kit!

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[Graham Boak]

I made mine a few years ago, after buying it when it came out, but the transfers were unusable and it took that long before the Bergemot sheet appeared: drop me a line and I'll dig out what I have left of it (a mere 19 options, or thereabouts).  I don't recall what colour I eventually used for the light brown, but possibly RAF Light Earth?  Colourcoats Yellow Grey wasn't available then.  I kept hoping that someone would produce  a decent early canopy but nobody ever did (that I came across, anyway.)

 

As I recall, the engines were a bit anonymous, and the props puny, but the only thing I was compelled to change was the gross fairing around the dive brakes.  Best remove this altogether and thin down the brakes themselves - I think I found a thinner set from somewhere else but cannot imagine where so maybe not!  However I think that many Pe.2s had them removed or never fitted, as the aircraft was generally used as a conventional light bomber.

 

I do have a Zvezda one which I fancy converting into the M82-engined recce variant, but the conversion isn't quite as simple as I first thought so this has been shelved.

[Alex Gordon]

I finally finished one earlier this year,RFI here.Once again Massimo Tessitori was unknowingly very helpful with this website page https://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/pe2/pe2camo/pe2camo.htm .Graham Boak had some useful insight into it as well.

I hope your build goes easier than mine did.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Alex Gordon

[PeterB]

Hi Guys,

 

I have made a start by gluing the dive brakes in place and filling in the oversized holes for the hinges. At least the actual gate like brakes are quite thin, unlike those on Airfix's Ju-88!

Next up is the fuselage, and Airfix say that the interior was painted dark grey. As many of you know Soviet paint schemes during the Great Patriotic War is yet another of those modelling subjects subject to debate, at times quite heated. Massimo has some good info and his site reminded me that I have Peter Smith's book on the Pe-2 in the Crowood series, which he says is useful.  In it, Smith mentions the "report" released by the NKVD in 1947 which supposedly listed Soviet paint schemes and colours, and which generated quite a lot of interest in the modelling world when it came to light many years later. However, it is now felt that it was not altogether accurate, and later work by the likes of Erik Pilaswkii challenged quite of lot of it. Smith, writing in 2003, describes Pilawskii as one of the acknowledged experts on the subject, but as is so often the case, more recent research has also placed a question mark over his books as well.

 

Whatever the case, in Smith's book here are colour pics of several preserved Pe-2, and one in Bodo has the interior painted in a light yellowish green, though that could be primer as it was being refurbished at the time. Pics of one in a Russian Museum do not show the cockpit interior, but looking through a window over the belly gun position the interior looks a medium grey so I will go with that unless anybody has more specfic info?

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[PeterB]

This is one of those slightly "fiddly" kits. For a start the cockpit floor is too narrow to fit on the ledges provided in the fuselage, perhaps deliberately. The instructions are unclear but it seems that it is intended to actually fit between them and should have a wider raised section at the rear to go over them, but either it was missing from this kit or I cut it off - the sprue attachments on the larger parts are a bit odd as they are in the form of a 1cm long "bar" parallel to the actual part if you can picture what I mean. Anyway it is in place together with the seats, stick and rear upper gun, and the instrument panels which were split between the two sides of the fuselage to give the pilot a view through the nose glazing.

Originally the navigator's gun just poked out of the back of the canopy but later it was turned into a turret of sorts, or maybe it would be more accurate to call it a "casemate". the glazing is open at the front where it meets the canopy proper and the gun is on a pillar which is meant to be a push fit in a hole in the floor, so presumably you could rotate the assembly a little if desired, but I have glued it in place. I am not sure if Airfix have actually got the "turret" right as it sits very low and the canopy has a sort of fairing for a pivot going over the top as on RAF nose turrets. The belly gun goes into the socket you can see and there are a pair of small doors in the lower fuselage which could be opened to allow it to be depressed, but I have glued them closed as it will be on the ground.

And this is what it looks like - the fit was not too bad. I sorted out the engine cowlings as well as I expected to have to do a bit of filling and filing and it was a lot easier to get in with the wings off. Likewise fitting the exhausts, and I may also add the intake scoops which go underneath as well.

 

Here is a little background from the Crowood book.

 

Vladimir Petlyakov had made something of a name for himself working in a team led by Tupolev which designed the TB-7 heavy bomber, later to be known as the Pe-8. This did not save him from being one of the many aircraft engineers such as Myasishchev who were rounded up in early 1938 in one of Stalin's purges and forced to work in a “penal” design team under control of the NKVD. His first project there was the VI-100 high altitude twin engined fighter which initially had just a pilot but later a navigator was added. Problems with both the engines and the pressure cabin delayed progress and after WWII broke out the need for such a plane became questionable. Instead, in May 1940, orders were issued to convert it into a high speed dive bomber as the PB-100 project which would became the Pe-2 Peshka (Chess Pawn?). This did not need the pressure cabin or the troublesome superchargers of the high altitude version, and various other changes were made, such as lowering the wing from mid fuselage to the bottom, adding a third crew member to control the belly and waist guns, and extensive glazing in the nose to allow the pilot to get a good view of his target in a dive (which is probably why the IP was split as mentoned earlier.

 

I will tell you something about the plane itself once I have read up on it. It is actually somewhat smalled than I had imagined - Mosquito or Bf 110 size I guess.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[PeterB]

One thing about these old Airfix kits - if you do not have to do to much extra detailing they do go together pretty quickly.

Perhaps not quite as quickly as when I was in my early teens as it would have been painted by now - badly! On this one, Airfix provide either closed main and tail doors or else a "plug" incorporating a "roof" and open doors, which certainly speeds things up, though it does mean that the wells have virtually no depth - oh well, can't have everything I guess!

 

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[AdrianMF]

13 hours ago, PeterB said:

they do go together pretty quickly.

I made all sorts of work for myself when I built one a while ago, but I think it’s actually a very nice kit straight from the box, as you are demonstrating! The reviews at the time were very complimentary about the open and closed undercarriage door options.

 

Regards,

Adrian

[PeterB]

On 7/28/2021 at 4:56 PM, Alex Gordon said:

I finally finished one earlier this year,RFI here.Once again Massimo Tessitori was unknowingly very helpful with this website page https://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/pe2/pe2camo/pe2camo.htm .Graham Boak had some useful insight into it as well.

I hope your build goes easier than mine did.

Hi Alex,

 

Tht is a very nice build. Any idea which green you used?

 

Pete

[Alex Gordon]

Humbrol 117 for the green,67 dark grey,119 Light Earth and 65 blue.Looks like she's going together well .

[PeterB]

Thanks Alex,

 

Yes it is not a bad kit in this case - I seem to have been luckier than you in terms of fit. My problem at the moment is paint, but more on that before long depending on the weather - I need to take some pics in natural light as the green is very dependent on lighting.

 

Pete

[PeterB]

As mentioned repeatedly on the forum, paint can be a complicated subject, and that is certainly true for the Soviet WWII colours. It is also complicated by the fact that different paint specs were used on metal surfaces and wood ones so the same colour can have two different names, but for simplicity I will stick to the AMT numbers in this case. As mentioned earlier this plane will have a version of the 3 colour camo with a light brown, dark grey and green finish, and here is a test shot I did on my old Hunter paint mule taken in dull conditions outdoors. Brownish greens such as AMT4, OD and PC10 are notoriously difficult as they are very sensitive to lighting, looking quite brown under artificial lights at times.

With one exception all the paints I have used are from the Colourcoats range - some from the old White Ensign days and others from Sovereign Hobbies. From left to right in the above pic are AMT12 very dark grey which looked almost black when new. Next is Israeli Sand Grey which Jason @Learstang suggested, and I am happy with that, and then comes AMT4 which I am less happy with as it can look very brown at times. Knowing the level of research Jamie puts into his Colourcoats paint I am sure it is pretty close to the real paint, but perhaps after it had faded a bit? Finally, up against the fuselage I painted some WWI PC10/Khaki for comparison. Moving on to the Port wing I have used Tamiya German Grey to represent a faded version of AMT12, more Israeli Sand Grey and finally some RLM83 just to see if it looks closer to my idea of Russian Green. Looking at the colour pics in Smith's Crowood book, the one in the Monino Museum in Russia looks to be painted in a green which resembles the Colourcoats "Army Green/4BO" that I used a few years ago on my Yak-9D kit, though I have since read that the use of Army paint as a temporary measure was not as common as some sources suggested.

 

A while back I was going to enter my Airfix Il-2 in this GB but when I learned just how inaccurate it was I changed my mind, but rather than put it back in my stash I built it for my own amusement, and also as a subject to test my paints on, so here it is (needs touching up and /or repainting). The brown is a bit lighter in reality.

 

Again I have used AMT4 and AMT12 straight from the tin and I really cannot make my mind up about the ruddy green. I know Jason said he used a version of US cockpit green on his and I may give that a shot. Any thoughts would be welcome.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[PeterB]

Ok, here is yet another variation.

On the port wingtip is Colourcoats 4BO Army Green which is a bit lighter than I remembered. On the same wing I have changed the light brown to the Adrika Corps Sand-grey which is bit less yellow or more pink. On the Port wing root and tailplane I have used Humbrol 102 Army Green which is perhaps similar to the paint on the plane in Monino, and on the Starboard wingtip and tailplane is Humbrol US Interior Green. Oh, and just to complicate matters even further there were two official painting patterns for this colour scheme and the plane I intend to build is labelled as being in Scheme 1 on the Bergamot decals sheet and their pattern is identical to the profile in the Osprey Combat Aircraft book of the same plane, but on Massimo's site his illustrations show the Bergamot "Scheme 1" as Scheme 2 and vice versa!

 

I am open to suggestions for the green to use.

 

 

Pete

[Learstang]

Well, Pete, you know my preferences! That 4BO looks rather blueish on my PC monitor whereas it should be close to (or even identical to) AMT-4. The AMT-1 Light Brown looks pretty good on that Il-2, and I can see why I chose Israeli Sand Grey for AMT-1 - to my eye, it looks about right for that colour. The Afrika Korp colour looks pretty good also for AMT-1, and I used the Testors MM version of that on at least one of my Il-2s. I have to say the Interior Green looks rather bright, especially compared to the Colourcoats AMT-4, which to my (tired, old) eyes looks too olive, too brown. That AMT-4 looks more like the USAAF Olive Drab than what I think AMT-4 should look like. At least under the lighting in my work room (incandescent - the lighting, not the room), my Interior Green/AMT-4 looks darker than what I'm seeing here. Between Begemot and Massimo, I would tend to go with Massimo. All just my tuppence, as it were.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

[PeterB]

Thanks Jason, 

The 4BO is not as blue as in the pic, but I think I will try adding some Hu 102 to the Hu 226 interior green to darken it down a bit and see what it looks like. I will get there in th end.

 

Pete

[PeterB]

1 hour ago, Learstang said:

 I have to say the Interior Green looks rather bright, especially compared to the Colourcoats AMT-4, which to my (tired, old) eyes looks too olive, too brown. That AMT-4 looks more like the USAAF Olive Drab than what I think AMT-4 should look like.

Jason

 

Does that look any better for a faded version or should it be darker? In real life it is a little yellower than in the pic.

 

Pete

Edited August 5, 2021 by PeterB

[Learstang]

The green in that picture actually looks pretty good to me for AMT-4. It should maybe have a touch more olive to it.

 

Regards,

 

Jason

[PeterB]

I have tweaked the green slightly and had a shot at what Massimo calls "Scheme 2" with a slight variation.

Still a bit of touching up to do but first I will get the blue on the undersides. Based on my test shot on the Hunter, both the green and grey will get a little darker once varnished. Nothing like the Colourcoats green but I think it will do for faded AMT4. It is about the same size as the Mosquito, which is perhaps unsurprising as it started life as a fighter but ended up as a dive bomber, and was also used for level bombing and photo recce. The Pe-3 development reverted to the fighter role apparently. There is some disagreement about the bombload. It appears it could carry 4 x 100Kg bombs in the internal fuselage bomb bay though they were sometimes replaced with extra fuel. Another 100kg bomb could be carried in the rear of each engine nacelle - all of these could only be released in level flight it seems, so for dive bombing it could carry 4 x 100kg or 250 kg bombs under the wings, or sometimes 2 x 500kg bombs. Original armament was a pair of 7.62mm ShKAS mg in the nose and one each in the dorsal and ventral postions - the ventral gun was supplemented by a 7.62 ShKAS which could be fired through hatches on the side of the fuselage. Before long the Starboard nose gun was replaced with a 12.7mm UBK mg, as were the ventral and dorsal guns, and sometimes there were a pair of UBK in the ventral position. Some had a battery of fixed downwards/forwards firing guns in the belly for strafing, and later in the war they were equipped to carry unguided rockets under the wings. The kit seems to have single UBK's in the nose, dorsal and ventral positions but no sign of the Port nose ShKAS which I might add. Speed seems to have been around 360mph depending on load and range about 720 miles.

 

Following the entry of the Pe-2 into service, Petlyakov was released from captivity and was awarded the Stalin Prize in 1941. He died when the Pe-2 he was flying in crashed in January 1942, aged 50.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited August 6, 2021 by PeterB