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Hawker Tempest V - Differences between Series 1 & 2


Paul Gillan
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Greetings,

 

Thinking of buying an Eduard 1/48 Tempest V but have no idea on the differences between a Series 1 or Series 2 version.

 

Any advice would be appreciated...and, yes, I am going to but the Richard Franks book...

 

Thanks,

 

Paul

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  • Paul Gillan changed the title to Hawker Tempest V - Differences between Series 1 & 2
1 hour ago, Paul Gillan said:

Greetings,

 

Thinking of buying an Eduard 1/48 Tempest V but have no idea on the differences between a Series 1 or Series 2 version.

 

Any advice would be appreciated...and, yes, I am going to but the Richard Franks book...

 

Thanks,

 

Paul


The series 2 had the cannons almost flush with the leading edge of the wing, whereas the series 1 had the cannon fairings. The series 2 also added the ablility to carry drops tanks and bombs under the wing. The series 2 didn’t have the fish plates on the tail, though I don’t know if all series 1’s had them.

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The S.1 (or at least part of them) IIRC were built using Typhoon fuselage centre sections, which had different (rear?) spar pick up points. This resulted in a small blister on the wing roots either side somewhere below the cockpit.

Not sure, but the S.1 may have had five-spoke wheels.

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Hi Paul,

I've just bought the Series 1 version of this. It would be good to exchange info as we progress. Are you going to post in WIP?

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7 hours ago, tempestfan said:

Not sure, but the S.1 may have had five-spoke wheels.

@Rabbit Leader mentioned in another thread that the S1 wheels were a different size (smaller I think), which I never knew. But don't quote me on this. If he's around, Dave may see this and provide more info. ^_^

 

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13 hours ago, Paul Gillan said:

and, yes, I am going to but the Richard Franks book...

If it's anything like the Hurricane book, don't.   That is shoddy, badly researched and full of errors. As is the Mosquito book according @The wooksta V2.0 and their Boomerang book. 

for example https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235024331-concerning-tempests/&do=findComment&comment=2776608

 

I'm now very dubious about anything by the author,  as this seems a pattern,  where information is gleaned from many sources, is not checked and some downright cobblers is stated as fact.   I can do a 5 minutes on the Hurricane book before I get rather cross and have to do something else.   

Given the sheer volume of books produced by Richard Franks, on a range of types, this is not that surprising.

 

Re the Tempest series 1 vs series 2, it's not clear cut.  The first Tempest were based on Typhoon fuselages,  and they had other small features, some of which get changed over at different points.  As the quote below will demonstrate.

You will make your life easier by picking a scheme you like,  and then pinning down the details,  by going @Chris Thomas

author of this

1606565.JPG

and others and a series on the 2nd TAF as well, and the book that came in the Eduard Royal Class Tempest boxing as well.

 

OK, this is what I was looking for, 

 

same thread, for ease of reference, by Chris Thomas.

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235024331-concerning-tempests/&tab=comments#elControls_2779625_menu

 

" Tempest V Series 1 and 2

 

First let me say that difference between Series 1 and Series 2 Tempests is not entirely clear to me. The terms seem only to appear in Hawker records; I have yet to find an RAF record that mentions them, let alone defines them. Records of individual airframe status no longer survive so photographs (frustratingly few) provide the most reliable record, supplemented by official correspondence which states intent rather than the actual event.

 

By definition ‘Series 1’ Tempest Vs were the first production aircraft and somewhere in the the first batch (100 aircraft JN729-773, JN792-822, JN854-877) the Series 2 appeared (or after the first 100 some would have us believe).  There were a number of changes in this period and I feel that the difference between Series 1 and Series 2 would have been defined by more than the replacement of long-barrelled cannon with the shorter variant (as usually cited).

 

The first 50 Tempest Vs (presumably JN729 to JN773 and JN792-796) were built using the centre-sections from a cancelled Typhoon contract. This is the box-like structure, made from steel tubes, that sits between the wings. The Typhoon centre-section was very similar to the Tempest version but because of the latter’s slimmer wings, the wing root fairing would not quite fit over the Typhoon version. This resulted in a small blister over the offending structure which is evident in photos, often with much of the paint rubbed off by fitters’ feet. One can be clearly seen in the photo of JF-L or J (which may be JN768) in June Miljevic's link.

I rather suspected that this feature might have been associated with the ‘fishplates’ discussed in the above posts. However I was a bit surprised that when I examined relevant photos closely and the fishplates were evident well beyond the first 50 Tempests, almost to the end of the JN-series. Latest airframe identified so far is JN862 (85th).  First confirmed without the plates is JN875 (98th).

 

The longer-barrelled cannon (Hispano Mk II) was replaced much earlier than sometimes claimed – some sources indicate all the JN series were Series 1 with the long cannon.  The latest airframe I’ve been able to identify with the protruding cannon is JN767 (39th). There is a photo of JN801 (55th) in full stripes at Newchurch in late June/early July 1944, which is the earliest found with the short-barrelled Hispano Mk V. Some sources state that the shorter cannon was retrofitted to some of the earlier airframes but I have not found any evidence to support this. 

 

Finally we have a set of internal changes that cannot be determined from photos, namely the fittings required for the carriage of long-range tanks (LRT), bombs or RP (unless the aircraft in question is actually carrying one of these devices).  Also in this category is the equipment with spring-tab ailerons. 

 

However, it is known from Air Staff correspondence that LR tank capability was expected from the 51st production aircraft (JN797) with bomb carriage fittings from the 151st aircraft and RP fittings from the 351st, i.e. bombs and RP were not available until the 51st and 251st EJ-serialled Tempest Vs entered service. This was no handicap as bombs were not used until April 1945 and RP not until the last quarter of 1945. There was no possibility of the LRT (and possibly the bomb/RP) mods being retrofitted owing to the limited access in the Tempest’s thin wing.

 

The arrival of the much-vaunted spring tab ailerons remains obscure (to me any way).

 

So exactly which of these features heralded the change from Series 1 to Series 2 I don’t know for certain but the ‘pukka’ Tempest centre section, the short cannon and LRT capability all seem to arrive after the 50th aircraft which might well be changeover point?"

 

which is why I say, pick an airframe, and go from there.

HTH

T

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Though probably not related to Series 1 vs Series 2, another change is the wingtip lights. At some point they went from clear lenses with colored bulbs to colored lenses with clear bulbs. You would have to check reference photos for any particular aircraft as I am unsure when the change took place. Could have been a maintenance depot change as well.

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I'm no expert on the Tempest and I don't actually have a kit of it yet until SH/Eduard hopefully release their 72nd scale kits later this year but I do have some books on the subject plus the Bentley plans.

 

These books include the one by Richard Franks (I also have his Typhoon book by the same publisher) and whilst I can't vouch for the accuracy of some of the content surrounding the differences between the Series 1 and 2 the book itself is still very much worth having.  It contains plenty of photos and detailed diagrams of the airframe and its constituent parts all of which will prove useful to modellers when undertaking a build so just wanted to balance earlier comments which have rightly highlighted its short comings. 

 

The other book I have is the 4+ publication which only runs to 37 pages but includes another set of scale plans plus lots of photos/diagrams and what appears to be quite accurate text as well (albeit in quite a small font size) so wondered how this book is regarded by those far more versed in the Tempest than myself?

 

Regards

Colin.

 

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On 26/07/2021 at 05:50, Paul Gillan said:

Thinking of buying an Eduard 1/48 Tempest V but have no idea on the differences between a Series 1 or Series 2 version.

I regard to my comment about picking a scheme, to clarify,  the Series 1 kit will give you less options, not many were made, which IIRC has the fuselage fishplates and spar bulges,  and as they mostly didn't have drop tank capability, they were not used by the 2nd TAF, but the series 2 had a much wider usage, and thus marking options. 

So, pick a scheme, you want D-Day stripes, probably a Series 1,  something from the 2nd TAF in early 45 would be a series 2 kit for example. 

 

Or, if you can find it, get the Royal Class boxing which has both kits..... :rolleyes:

 

While an upgrade of the previous tooling, it has some issues, which are fixable if you know about them,   @Paul Budzik did a 3 part review of the kit on youtube, and Paul a few years back made a stunning 1/32 scratchbuild one, https://paulbudzik.com/models/tempest-page.html   so he knows a bit about Tempests ;) 

part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRZZykgNNaA

Part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi1Kh0lFLdw

part3 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEkoLlQRZiY

 

well worth the time, especially for the wing details. 

 

PS - This is part 4, on the series 2 kit 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rilJONELzM

 

there are also reviews of the Tempest II by him now as well.

HTH

 

 

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The first contract card for the first (and only) Tempest V order (ACRFT/1896 for 1,600), covering the first 61 deliveries has the engine as Sabre II, the remaining cards have the engine as Sabre IIa, this is offered as a line of investigation for the Series i/ii change over, though it probably a simple clerical error.  The Sabre IIa appeared around June 1943 but I do not have production data by sub type, only Sabre II, not II, IIa, IIb, IIc and IId, so no idea of when II production ended.

 

The reason for the possible use of Sabre II In early Tempest production is to end December 1943 there were in theory 2,030 Sabre II of which 871 were under repair and 176 were not on airframes, leaving 983.  From the Typhoon end 1,849 airframes had been built, of which 265 were engineless and 114 were instructional, so 1,470 airframes, 983 engines, leaving 487 airframes unaccounted for, the ones under repair, or reduced to spares/not repaired after minor damage.  It is known several hundred Typhoon airframes were reduced to spare parts in 1943.  So it is possible early Tempests were fitted with Sabre II given the shortages.

 

Cumulative Tempest official production to end of month.  Aircraft were of course not always delivered in serial number order but aggregating the daily figures into monthly ones usually smooths this out.
Oct-43 / 3
Nov-43 / 3
Dec-43 / 3
Jan-44 / 11
Feb-44 / 23
Mar-44 / 50
Apr-44 / 73
May-44 / 105
Jun-44 / 154

 

JN729, the first production Tempest was not taken on RAF charge until 21 March 1945.  Delivery dates of other serials mentioned by Chris Thomas.
JN862, 23 May 1944
JN875, 2 June 1944
JN767, 26 March 1944
JN801, 17 April 1944
JN797, 10 or 18 April 1944

 

Tempest wheels are given as A.H.8208, tyres as 30x9.00-15.  Typhoon wheels are given as A.H.8093, tyres as 11.25-12

In December 1943 the Tempest wheel is also listed as used by Meteor, Firebrand and F.12/43
In July 1945 the Tempest wheel is also listed as used by Fury, Hornet, Sea Fury, Firebrand, Firefly and Barracuda T.R.V.  The Meteor was using A.H. 8385.
In December 1943 and January 1945 the Typhoon tyre is also listed as in use by Barracuda and Firefly.

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